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stevenleser

(32,886 posts)

38. The EFF timeline completely contradicts your story. nt

Reply to sabrina 1 (Reply #37)

Fri Dec 20, 2013, 12:43 PM

Dec 2013

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"NONE of this would have happened without the revelations by Edward J. Snowden" [View all] kpete Dec 2013 OP

I hope, here, on DU, we can finally put to rest the destractor tavalon Dec 2013 #1

So? randome Dec 2013 #2

Snowdens fans have no understanding of nuance. baldguy Dec 2013 #4

"Anyone who really understands what metadata is knows that it is anonymous by its very nature" Ratty Dec 2013 #11

The poster knows that. They just hope YOU don't. Pholus Dec 2013 #14

Metadata includes IP addresses Ratty Dec 2013 #17

Actually, your first link concerns Internet metadata, not telephony metadata. randome Dec 2013 #48

Just can't stop digging, can you? bvar22 Dec 2013 #93

Saying metadata is not anonymous is like saying water is not wet. baldguy Dec 2013 #115

I'm not sure whos teaching you about metadata, but you might want a refund... TampaAnimusVortex Dec 2013 #128

Thank you for proving my point. baldguy Dec 2013 #134

You have to read ALL the words... TampaAnimusVortex Dec 2013 #145

When you have less than no idea what you're saying, maybe you shouldn't say it. DisgustipatedinCA Dec 2013 #23

lol, oh you.... alato Dec 2013 #39

BS! I and appreciate both Obama and Snowden. roody Dec 2013 #42

What is funny here is that immediately after Snowden exposed the NSA, some here rhett o rick Dec 2013 #103

Racist, ratfucker, Paulite, ... MannyGoldstein Dec 2013 #127

When we have folks like christx30 Dec 2013 #5

Sure, Clapper lied about something that was common knowledge since 2006. randome Dec 2013 #7

Don't forget the boxes in his garage! Marr Dec 2013 #40

Fair point. randome Dec 2013 #45

He got the information out there. christx30 Dec 2013 #58

All not true. There were things constantly being done about it and it was in the news. stevenleser Dec 2013 #60

So you can rationalize away Clapper lying to Congress? I bet you wouldnt let Snowden get away rhett o rick Dec 2013 #104

Anyone with an open mind sees the collaboration of a Government agency with private communication sabrina 1 Dec 2013 #6

You're talking about what MIGHT happen. And it's something to consider. randome Dec 2013 #10

Huh, this summer we were debating garage boxes and who is a libertarian rat copulator. Pholus Dec 2013 #15

Well, you weren't debating those 'issues' with me. randome Dec 2013 #18

In your particular case that is true. But the security state kind of Pholus Dec 2013 #20

Are you trying to say you haven't been shilling for the NSA for 6 months now? DisgustipatedinCA Dec 2013 #25

I think I'll say Randome has been an interesting debater... Pholus Dec 2013 #27

My 'position' is never set in concrete. If I have 'shifted' to any degree, it's because... randome Dec 2013 #33

Get ready to do some more shifting, in that case. DisgustipatedinCA Dec 2013 #114

Well don't listen to Congress for the truth as per your own post, they don't care if it's a lie Uncle Joe Dec 2013 #118

'most people already know better.' Rex Dec 2013 #101

Ah, now I see why you hold the views you do. You don't know what Snowden exposed: sabrina 1 Dec 2013 #22

But all those documents he released can be viewed from other points of view. randome Dec 2013 #29

Well you have to respect the Constitution in order to understand that he has exposed crimes. sabrina 1 Dec 2013 #65

FYI: Those discussions were already happening in the exec branch and congress. We didnt need Snowden stevenleser Dec 2013 #9

Maybe he didn't speed it up -and maybe, as you say, he slowed it down- but he did shine a big... randome Dec 2013 #13

Here is a good timeline by EFF. There has been steady stuff going on for years stevenleser Dec 2013 #16

Wow. A lot was going on for a long time before Snowden. randome Dec 2013 #21

And it's going to continue at that pace, Snowden or no Snowden stevenleser Dec 2013 #43

LOL, 67 incidents reported in your link in the second half of 2013 vs 7, 8, 11 incidents riderinthestorm Dec 2013 #49

That is actually not correct. It contains more now because it was created in the June-Dec timeline stevenleser Dec 2013 #52

So you put it out there as some kind of definitive source riderinthestorm Dec 2013 #66

+1... that was hilarious. Marr Dec 2013 #97

Oh My. bvar22 Dec 2013 #122

deceptive practices Enthusiast Dec 2013 #135

He shined a spotlight on himself treestar Dec 2013 #34

They must have been very 'secret' since a majority of the people did not know eg, how the NSA has sabrina 1 Dec 2013 #28

See my #16. that is not the case. nt stevenleser Dec 2013 #36

I saw your #16 which doesn't answer my question. What did YOU know that the rest of us who sabrina 1 Dec 2013 #47

Snowden dramatically changed the exposure of the NSA as demonstrated by the EFF link riderinthestorm Dec 2013 #50

No, as I noted above, that's not correct. It contains more recent citations because it was created stevenleser Dec 2013 #53

Then its distorting the facts by being incomplete riderinthestorm Dec 2013 #70

Wow, usually I think you tend to be right, but if you actually believe Snowden had no impact.... Logical Dec 2013 #64

This has got to be your worst performance yet. Luminous Animal Dec 2013 #84

Oh, but you have to read the timeline. Marr Dec 2013 #100

pffft L0oniX Dec 2013 #26

Your wrong he didn't make any moral decisions for you upaloopa Dec 2013 #55

Anyone who was paying attention knew there was a debate going on. See my #16 stevenleser Dec 2013 #59

There is only one side to the metadata issue. JDPriestly Dec 2013 #81

Of course the government has the capacity to do almost anything. That's not going to change. randome Dec 2013 #85

Here is how it is different. JDPriestly Dec 2013 #92

I understand the possibilities of abuse very well. randome Dec 2013 #95

I do have a problem with the NSA keeping the metadata, a big problem. JDPriestly Dec 2013 #98

Excellent points......nt Enthusiast Dec 2013 #137

yes we do G_j Dec 2013 #130

They lost whatever trust they may have had when Clapper out right lied to Congress and the American Dustlawyer Dec 2013 #3

I have no way to moparlunatic Dec 2013 #8

According to Whistle Blower, Binney, you are correct, they are collecting every email, phone call sabrina 1 Dec 2013 #32

What could they possibly treestar Dec 2013 #35

I believe we now know some of what they are doing with it. And it is pretty shocking frankly. sabrina 1 Dec 2013 #61

Like what? treestar Dec 2013 #107

You don't have to worry unless you are out there protesting against the drone warfare or the sabrina 1 Dec 2013 #116

Cite one example of a person who has been treestar Dec 2013 #119

One? How about thousands? How about being brutally beaten and pepper sprayed by Robo Cops sabrina 1 Dec 2013 #129

So cite 5 real examples treestar Dec 2013 #141

Somebody gave them names and addresses to raid. I wonder where they got those names and addresses sabrina 1 Dec 2013 #146

You bet they are collecting content and storing it. Th1onein Dec 2013 #68

This old empire is pretty rotten in the core. JEB Dec 2013 #12

Snowden may in fact have bought us enough time to reverse or at least attenuate boomersense Dec 2013 #19

He really didn't as my link in #16 illustrates. stevenleser Dec 2013 #24

Tell that to Ron Wyden who warned us as much as he could that we knew very little about what they sabrina 1 Dec 2013 #37

The EFF timeline completely contradicts your story. nt stevenleser Dec 2013 #38

So Ron Wyden was lying when he told us we would be angry IF we knew what they were up to, and sabrina 1 Dec 2013 #44

Let me know when you have read the EFF timeline. nt stevenleser Dec 2013 #46

Well, you still haven't answered my question. So here's another, why did Clapper lie to Ron Wyden sabrina 1 Dec 2013 #62

Let me know when you have read the EFF timeline. nt stevenleser Dec 2013 #63

Instead of posting duplicate posts, why don't you provide a link to the EFF timeline? Th1onein Dec 2013 #71

Let me know when you can answer my very simple questions. Why did Clapper lie if we all knew sabrina 1 Dec 2013 #69

" continuous litigation, hearings and other things going on regarding FISA and the NSA for years"... boomersense Dec 2013 #54

It's still going to go on ad infinitum. Snowden didn't change that. stevenleser Dec 2013 #57

Don't want to argue with you. nft boomersense Dec 2013 #76

It is funny how naive you are to not understand the outrage Snowden caused..... Logical Dec 2013 #72

He can't possibly know how bad his argument looks with the EFF link he's posted riderinthestorm Dec 2013 #74

What is the cost effectiveness of the NSA and or DHS??? Is that a secret too? L0oniX Dec 2013 #30

Billions for Security Contractors? sabrina 1 Dec 2013 #41

Yep ...we are in MORE DANGER than ever all right ...from our own government! L0oniX Dec 2013 #123

NSA surveillance is like the "war on drugs"� . Enthusiast Dec 2013 #140

Yep. His shining the light on the dark doings of the spies has sent ripples around the world. Tierra_y_Libertad Dec 2013 #31

k&r idwiyo Dec 2013 #51

Well, he Dem-washed another Neocon depravity, but other than that . . . ucrdem Dec 2013 #56

You've got to be kidding? Th1onein Dec 2013 #73

Seriously? What Snowden showed is the NSA is under control. ucrdem Dec 2013 #77

That's laughable. Do you understand that the NSA is NOT supposed to spy on Americans? Th1onein Dec 2013 #78

Collecting "telephony metadata" with a warrant is not illegal. ucrdem Dec 2013 #79

You are missing the point: the NSA is not supposed to be collecting info on AMERICANS. Th1onein Dec 2013 #82

I get that. But without knowing why they issued the warrant ucrdem Dec 2013 #83

Let me tell you why it is NOT legal. Th1onein Dec 2013 #87

At the moment, it's legal. ucrdem Dec 2013 #89

Sorry, that's not the way it works. Th1onein Dec 2013 #90

A Bush-appointed judge waggled his wig. ucrdem Dec 2013 #91

I don't get your point. Th1onein Dec 2013 #94

Look up Richard "almost Orwellian" Leon. nt ucrdem Dec 2013 #96

Nah, not going to bother. You are the one making a point; it's up to you to explain. Th1onein Dec 2013 #102

Paulbot leaker + Bushbot judge = FOXbot hero. ucrdem Dec 2013 #106

Geez. Are you serious? Th1onein Dec 2013 #108

FOX: "Why Judge Leon is right about NSA spying" ucrdem Dec 2013 #109

Wow. Your argument is really bad. Th1onein Dec 2013 #110

People see what they want to see and disregard the rest. ucrdem Dec 2013 #112

And all of the FISA judges are appointed by right winger John Roberts. Do you have neverforget Dec 2013 #113

It is legal if it comes from FISC treestar Dec 2013 #120

"The law, in its majestic equality, Egalitarian Thug Dec 2013 #125

Warrants? From a 'Secret Court'? When I learned we were spied on by sabrina 1 Dec 2013 #131

Meanwhile Chelsea Manning has become a largely forgotten persona non grata... Blue_Tires Dec 2013 #67

Im sure the treatment of Manning, Binney etc riderinthestorm Dec 2013 #75

A situation that our "transparent" government would like to put Snowden in. Tierra_y_Libertad Dec 2013 #88

Just the truth malaise Dec 2013 #80

Thanks, Mr. Snowden. Orsino Dec 2013 #86

K & fookin' R! AzDar Dec 2013 #99

Also brought to us by the letter Y and the number 8. nt MrScorpio Dec 2013 #105

Spoken like a paranoid Libertarian of the Rand kind. Whisp Dec 2013 #111

Kicked and recommended. Uncle Joe Dec 2013 #117

indeed - history will absolve him - if freedom and democracy survives Douglas Carpenter Dec 2013 #121

K&R Never in history has power taken not been abused. Egalitarian Thug Dec 2013 #124

Recommend jsr Dec 2013 #126

K&R woo me with science Dec 2013 #132

Edward Snowden, a true Hero for We the People. 99Forever Dec 2013 #133

Great quote from Snowden! another_liberal Dec 2013 #136

K&R NealK Dec 2013 #138

He has arisen. gulliver Dec 2013 #139

kick Oilwellian Dec 2013 #142

My opinion, ANYONE supporting any data collection on US citizens without warrant PowerToThePeople Dec 2013 #143

I am glad Snowden did what he did. bigwillq Dec 2013 #144