General Discussion

KitSileya

(4,035 posts)

46. It doesn't happen divorced from context.

Tue Dec 24, 2013, 07:36 AM

Dec 2013

Few are the women who haven't experienced that even glancing at men who stare is taken as an invitation for more, and many of us have been met with escalating aggression when that advance is rebuffed. When again and again you are called b!tch, or ugly, or a frigid ugly b!tch for refusing to smile on command, or for wanting to read your book on the subway, or spend time with your friends at a bar, instead of pandering to guys who think it is their god-given right to interpret even the smallest scrap of token politeness as a license to hit on you, you get very cynical about men looking at you. You certainly get a lot of training in determining the intent behind the glancing/staring/leering - you don't think we can't see who looks at us admiringly, and who is sizing us up for sexual fantasies or as a piece of meat. I am pretty sure you can see whether a guy who looks at you has no ulterior motives, or for example is looking for a brawl. Same difference - just a question of experience and socialization.

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If only a handful of feminists are responsible for all that ails DU [View all] BainsBane Dec 2013 OP

Done and done Hobo Dec 2013 #1

I always go into these debates filled with righteous anger. Gravitycollapse Dec 2013 #2

Yes, it's vicious kcr Dec 2013 #55

They sure didn't unify the site today, did they? Vashta Nerada Dec 2013 #3

You mean because I posted that Indian PSA in HOF and RQ did in GD? BainsBane Dec 2013 #4

Is a woman checking out a man's ass predatory behavior? nt Bonobo Dec 2013 #5

Depending on how it's done and how he feels about it BainsBane Dec 2013 #8

But she can't really know at the moment, I guess. Bonobo Dec 2013 #11

Good lord BainsBane Dec 2013 #16

Good lord, I didn't say it was. nt Bonobo Dec 2013 #20

Why did you even raise the subject then? BainsBane Dec 2013 #27

They are most certainly on a continuum. Bonobo Dec 2013 #30

This began with an Indian PSA BainsBane Dec 2013 #34

Bonobo's not going to get it Scootaloo Dec 2013 #79

You did it again. "You ALL should have discussed with your fathers". 11 Bravo Dec 2013 #188

So some men should not learn from their fathers? BainsBane Dec 2013 #198

Correct, some men should not learn from their fathers. 11 Bravo Dec 2013 #217

Wow. Talk about predictable. kcr Dec 2013 #244

oh for fuck's sake mercuryblues Dec 2013 #202

Your inability to comprehend the meaning of the word "all" is not my problem. 11 Bravo Dec 2013 #213

and you ability mercuryblues Dec 2013 #222

I know kcr Dec 2013 #223

You couldn't outrage me even if you were coherent and intellectually honest. 11 Bravo Dec 2013 #226

+1... I would venture to say that a majority of men on DU are the "good guys" SomethingFishy Dec 2013 #216

they are not lumped in. and many men do not feel lumped in. that would be your clue in, seabeyond Dec 2013 #234

I think it was pretty clear who BB was referring to. kcr Dec 2013 #221

Mr. Scorpio explains it perfectly BainsBane Dec 2013 #18

I've done it n a predatory manner, so yes Matariki Dec 2013 #12

If she's much larger than him, then yes. seattledo Dec 2013 #138

Plenty of ad hominim attacks, strawmen, and red herrings today. Vashta Nerada Dec 2013 #15

I can hardly blame you for that BainsBane Dec 2013 #19

I don't believe posting that India PSA was innocent either. Vashta Nerada Dec 2013 #37

I really don't give a fuck BainsBane Dec 2013 #42

I appreciated your post of the PSA theHandpuppet Dec 2013 #45

+1000 I got accused of adding flames to the gender war when I posted a piece about 1monster Dec 2013 #178

A PSA airing on Indian TV is "not innocent?" What is it, guilty? Squinch Dec 2013 #48

Right. The conversation has been distracted away from the idea of imagining treestar Dec 2013 #63

And it seems that some on DU are quite horrified by the possibility that those leers being reflected Squinch Dec 2013 #71

Yep, it's probably men who know they do that sort of thing treestar Dec 2013 #74

My favorite: Squinch Dec 2013 #76

This isn't India. What is your point? sabrina 1 Dec 2013 #22

The point is the context of the PSA that upset a few around here today BainsBane Dec 2013 #26

If you believe that stuff is only a problem in India, you are so very sadly mistaken. redqueen Dec 2013 #87

Oh but we're supposed to be grateful that we xulamaude Dec 2013 #103

Seriously. redqueen Dec 2013 #110

That was a doozy, wasn't it? Whisp Dec 2013 #132

As someone who has no personal problems with you or any of the feminists on the board... Shandris Dec 2013 #50

Exactly so tkmorris Dec 2013 #53

Well by all means, don't speak about the PSA, criticize those you agree with boston bean Dec 2013 #100

Obviously being offended at someone's uppity attitude is more important than the issue at hand. redqueen Dec 2013 #172

Consider it a matter of principle... Shandris Dec 2013 #191

+2 ..... oldhippie Dec 2013 #143

Exactly right n/t mokawanis Dec 2013 #167

you mean good will to all BlueToTheBone Dec 2013 #58

Really? Vashta Nerada Dec 2013 #65

Really. You left out 51% BlueToTheBone Dec 2013 #91

I was quoting a lyric to a Christmas song. Vashta Nerada Dec 2013 #109

Sorry, I missed BlueToTheBone Dec 2013 #128

This message was self-deleted by its author hughee99 Dec 2013 #152

This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague Dec 2013 #6

The Great Pumpkin brought it back BainsBane Dec 2013 #7

This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague Dec 2013 #10

Well it certainly has picked up dramatically BainsBane Dec 2013 #14

This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague Dec 2013 #17

You didn't miss the attempted flame out? BainsBane Dec 2013 #21

This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague Dec 2013 #23

Here BainsBane Dec 2013 #24

This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague Dec 2013 #28

OMG...that THREAD! HOF is communiss! PassingFair Dec 2013 #144

How did I miss that one?! xulamaude Dec 2013 #162

wasnt that a pretty disgustingly offensive Op and thread. and i was told to not take it personally. seabeyond Dec 2013 #171

So what you are saying is: Ignore others, it is easy. huh. Have you tried that in real life? The Straight Story Dec 2013 #9

I do it all the time BainsBane Dec 2013 #13

Ignore just leads to dupes.. Jesus Malverde Dec 2013 #25

'Thank you BainsBane Dec 2013 #29

I've never put anyone on ignore dipsydoodle Dec 2013 #31

Merry Christmas to you as well, dipsydoodle! BainsBane Dec 2013 #32

Why ignore? Too much fun! Love ya:) grahamhgreen Dec 2013 #33

+1 CFLDem Dec 2013 #51

This is an odd debate. It has plenty of merit, but the lines are so gray in my opinion. wyldwolf Dec 2013 #35

I've been that 8 yr old girl BainsBane Dec 2013 #36

they usually haven't done anything 'wrong.' wyldwolf Dec 2013 #38

You do hit on something interesting The Straight Story Dec 2013 #40

good points wyldwolf Dec 2013 #41

It doesn't happen divorced from context. KitSileya Dec 2013 #46

Blurred lines MostlyAmused Dec 2013 #54

IT could depend on her experience treestar Dec 2013 #56

Did you watch the PSA? BainsBane Dec 2013 #44

I did and I know exactly where you're coming from wyldwolf Dec 2013 #47

"But when you're a dad, every man is suspect." xulamaude Dec 2013 #64

In jail for looking at a little girl that way? Are you nuts? HERVEPA Dec 2013 #164

I assume anyone who leers at little girls BainsBane Dec 2013 #186

That is an incorrect and I believe ridiculous assumption HERVEPA Dec 2013 #219

Clearly they are pedophiles BainsBane Dec 2013 #220

My post was in response to men who looked at kids a certain way. HERVEPA Dec 2013 #243

In what context? treestar Dec 2013 #57

In MY context wyldwolf Dec 2013 #60

You mean you can't help it? treestar Dec 2013 #61

Sorry, 'science' is not a defense, it's a fact wyldwolf Dec 2013 #66

I'm denying that people have to stare at strangers who aren't enjoying it treestar Dec 2013 #68

ok, I'm with you on some people not enjoying being looked at... wyldwolf Dec 2013 #70

best of both worlds and easy answer. see her as a person. if she is interested, you would actually seabeyond Dec 2013 #84

why would you suggest it is evo when in fact, from a young boy culture taught you it was your right seabeyond Dec 2013 #77

no. HERVEPA Dec 2013 #165

lol seabeyond Dec 2013 #169

If there are trolls, they would have a wonderful time fostering these fights. Festivito Dec 2013 #39

I have most of the MRAs from the He-Man's Group on Ignore, and it's made a huge Sheldon Cooper Dec 2013 #43

Someone just lost their alerting priveleges for 24 hours ... Tuesday Afternoon Dec 2013 #242

Hahahahahahaha!!!!! Sheldon Cooper Dec 2013 #245

I am still trying to figure out why ... etherealtruth Dec 2013 #49

It's not the thoughts that are being expressed ....... oldhippie Dec 2013 #52

Like the way they were expressed in the PSA? xulamaude Dec 2013 #62

I never saw the PSA ..... oldhippie Dec 2013 #72

Then maybe you should watch it - xulamaude Dec 2013 #75

Why or if they were "rightfully" offended .... oldhippie Dec 2013 #81

Yeah. Far out. nt xulamaude Dec 2013 #86

Far out? oldhippie Dec 2013 #90

Old Hippie?? xulamaude Dec 2013 #93

Yep, though I believe ol' Maynard .... oldhippie Dec 2013 #101

i am done with this old. too many people are doing just what you did. creating an animosity toward seabeyond Dec 2013 #88

Yes ma'am! oldhippie Dec 2013 #98

you did the exact thing with this post. it is all about creating a hateful caracture to dismiss seabeyond Dec 2013 #106

HEY? IS YOUR SHIFT KEY BROKEN? xulamaude Dec 2013 #114

ya know. cant argue, go to this. so silly. obviously i have no desire to shift. seabeyond Dec 2013 #119

That may be true sometimes etherealtruth Dec 2013 #111

Thank you for a civil reply ..... oldhippie Dec 2013 #121

So sick of the this fucking tone argument. JTFrog Dec 2013 #131

Well, gee, thanks ....... oldhippie Dec 2013 #139

I make no apologies for women who stand up JTFrog Dec 2013 #145

You don't need to make apologies on behalf of women. You need to apologize for your own behavior. DisgustipatedinCA Dec 2013 #176

a consistent argument from people that are anti feminism tell us... if we would use a different tone seabeyond Dec 2013 #179

I will not apologize. JTFrog Dec 2013 #227

Yeah, I was pretty sure it wasn't in your character to apologize for being boorish DisgustipatedinCA Dec 2013 #228

not that you actually addressed the issue that i pointed out to you. so you can better understand seabeyond Dec 2013 #229

My purpose was to let the other poster know they were being rude for no good reason DisgustipatedinCA Dec 2013 #231

when tone is used as a dismissal of ones voice, and we know what it as used as, seabeyond Dec 2013 #232

Merry Christmas, seabeyond. nt DisgustipatedinCA Dec 2013 #233

thank you. and the same to you and yours. nt seabeyond Dec 2013 #235

There was very good reason. JTFrog Dec 2013 #236

Merry Christmas, JTFrog. nt DisgustipatedinCA Dec 2013 #238

Part of the problem is that a slogan is no reason to stop using common sense. stevenleser Dec 2013 #241

If we ignore, that means you can brow beat the new posters and non-ignorers unchecked NoOneMan Dec 2013 #59

Nag, nag, nag... xulamaude Dec 2013 #67

brow beat? please quit with the insults. seabeyond Dec 2013 #89

If I had a better word, I would use it NoOneMan Dec 2013 #92

it is a caricature that is being continuously created of us women. we are allowed opinion, thought seabeyond Dec 2013 #96

"created by us" could be more accurate NoOneMan Dec 2013 #99

suspects? choice of words. and do post where i name call or personally attack. i address the issue seabeyond Dec 2013 #108

Yep. The Usual Suspects. Its a great pop-culture movie. NoOneMan Dec 2013 #115

Ah, the lack of context xulamaude Dec 2013 #117

ah nooneman, i am done. i give in good faith, and then the game begins. have a happy holiday. seabeyond Dec 2013 #120

You too! NoOneMan Dec 2013 #122

Brow beat, hectoring, harping, hen-pecking, .... oldhippie Dec 2013 #113

you would be incorrect. man hater is accepted. i have been called it by at least 5, 6, 7 seabeyond Dec 2013 #123

No, you would be incorrect .... oldhippie Dec 2013 #125

the link goes to "that is not your message". and good. i am glad to hear. thank you. but, no seabeyond Dec 2013 #129

Oops redqueen Dec 2013 #141

seems to be two different posters. though i am glad to see that poster finally get one of his posts seabeyond Dec 2013 #146

Nope, sorry, that wasn't my post ..... oldhippie Dec 2013 #148

Yeah, I thought you posted that other one, mea culpa. redqueen Dec 2013 #151

I thought that was kind of strange also ..... oldhippie Dec 2013 #161

#6 sounds like on your side, hit wrong button. i would like to see your post. jsut saw another seabeyond Dec 2013 #154

Post removed Post removed Dec 2013 #159

Brow beat: daring to challenge privilege BainsBane Dec 2013 #192

I was more referring to redundant, tag-team shout downs NoOneMan Dec 2013 #194

Oh, so the problem is that more than one woman disagrees with you? BainsBane Dec 2013 #195

So yeah, you keep making up things I say and Ill just reciprocate NoOneMan Dec 2013 #197

Oh dear. I spoke out of turn again BainsBane Dec 2013 #199

Your behavior has nothing to do with you being a woman NoOneMan Dec 2013 #200

Oh, so you say the say thing in all the NSA threads BainsBane Dec 2013 #201

If the shoe fits, Ill call it out NoOneMan Dec 2013 #203

Really. Are you among that group? BainsBane Dec 2013 #205

With all due respect, wargle bargle NoOneMan Dec 2013 #206

right, I do recall your saying telling someone BainsBane Dec 2013 #210

Yes, it was. I do not think people should cower in the face of prejudice. NoOneMan Dec 2013 #212

This OP had a simple message BainsBane Dec 2013 #207

Its not that simple. You cannot define acceptable behavior and responses for people NoOneMan Dec 2013 #211

The word you are looking for is "Bully". RC Dec 2013 #196

Thank you. That is exactly the issue NoOneMan Dec 2013 #218

Why is there even a controversy about feminists? LWolf Dec 2013 #69

based on my limited knowledge of the threads in question (there have been many) wyldwolf Dec 2013 #73

Limited knowledge, indeed. xulamaude Dec 2013 #78

I think that's a little off. Squinch Dec 2013 #80

One man once told me LWolf Dec 2013 #82

It's actually not treestar Dec 2013 #85

that is what the argument devolved to because it is much easier for SOME men to derail seabeyond Dec 2013 #94

some NoOneMan Dec 2013 #107

yes. because i gave you and others more credit to be honest, than what you obviously deserved. seabeyond Dec 2013 #112

I appreciate that NoOneMan Dec 2013 #118

i think it is dishonest. nt seabeyond Dec 2013 #124

Women don't communicate clearly. Marr Dec 2013 #174

actually the opposite. saying women is not saying ALL. you know it. i know it. seabeyond Dec 2013 #175

At best, it's ambiguous. Marr Dec 2013 #183

They chose to make it about that BainsBane Dec 2013 #193

I'm not sure there i NoOneMan Dec 2013 #83

Define feminist for us "disruptors" "claiming" to be feminists, xulamaude Dec 2013 #97

To state that people claim to be feminists doesn't state they are not in fact NoOneMan Dec 2013 #102

Wut? Um, no thanks. xulamaude Dec 2013 #104

Do you tell people you "take Obama at his word" when he says he's an American? Squinch Dec 2013 #134

Is Obama an anonymous internet poster with patterned behavior of disruptive e-fights? NoOneMan Dec 2013 #135

The controversy isn't about feminisim per se Mopar151 Dec 2013 #105

Maybe. LWolf Dec 2013 #185

you walk into someones sand box, be respectful. i do when walking into another. not respectful, seabeyond Dec 2013 #189

Ignore? No way. rrneck Dec 2013 #95

so, you manner in addressing is to create a false caricature to paint a group of women in an seabeyond Dec 2013 #116

Liberals are all about cultural change. rrneck Dec 2013 #130

you create what you want to argue. one can also argue that we have been thru all this in the past, seabeyond Dec 2013 #136

I'm sure you're aware of how HoF was created rrneck Dec 2013 #157

the Op says if you do not like us, ignore us. that is nothing to do with banning, nor changing the seabeyond Dec 2013 #170

Why would I want to ignore someone who so desperately wants to be heard? rrneck Dec 2013 #177

again, you were supposedly giving suport to your argument we want to change TOS and something else. seabeyond Dec 2013 #180

Happy holidays to you as well. rrneck Dec 2013 #182

Duck Dynasty's PREACHER PATRIARCH Phil Robertson: "A good woman is hard to find. Mainly because Zorra Dec 2013 #126

I just regret that we're dividing this house when we should be fighting the Republicans. [nt] Jester Messiah Dec 2013 #127

Republicans want to control women and their bodies. JTFrog Dec 2013 #133

and you, woman. because i love you so. and have not heard your voice in so long... YOU... seabeyond Dec 2013 #140

Thank you sea. JTFrog Dec 2013 #142

Post removed Post removed Dec 2013 #149

You poor thing. JTFrog Dec 2013 #150

And yours. Jester Messiah Dec 2013 #153

Does it make you feel better to tell me what to do? JTFrog Dec 2013 #156

It's a prediction, not a command. Jester Messiah Dec 2013 #158

Hence all your posts on what JTFrog Dec 2013 #160

Are you or are you not A-Schwarzenegger Dec 2013 #163

The war on men is obviously out of control. JTFrog Dec 2013 #166

LOL! xulamaude Dec 2013 #184

+1 NoOneMan Dec 2013 #137

Ah, the old 'More Important Issues' derailing tactic redqueen Dec 2013 #147

Funny you should mention rail. Jester Messiah Dec 2013 #155

Because nothing is more important than alienating more men from the Democratic party. lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #168

Alienating women does appear to be more important BainsBane Dec 2013 #208

I think it would be remarkable that "the behavior of some" lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #215

when you stop creating our behavior into something it isnt, then i will take you seriously. and jeff seabeyond Dec 2013 #237

Would that be like the division around the NSA, Showden, Manning BainsBane Dec 2013 #187

But then I'd miss out on the delicious drama of the week n/t Kurska Dec 2013 #173

More fun than a barrel of monkeys. rrneck Dec 2013 #181

some of us actually do not see it as a game. and ya, we get it that for some, womens issue is a game seabeyond Dec 2013 #190

Or Trash your threads? 99Forever Dec 2013 #204

that works too BainsBane Dec 2013 #209

Yes it did. 99Forever Dec 2013 #214

There's way too much that ails DU for anyone or any one group to take full credit. Silent3 Dec 2013 #224

I agree, at least with the first part of that BainsBane Dec 2013 #240

I am a red blooded Notafraidtoo Dec 2013 #225

i am in love. i had to reread a couple times to make sure i was comprehending. seabeyond Dec 2013 #230

Thank you BainsBane Dec 2013 #239