Welcome to DU!
The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards.
Join the community:
Create a free account
Support DU (and get rid of ads!):
Become a Star Member
Latest Breaking News
Editorials & Other Articles
General Discussion
The DU Lounge
All Forums
Issue Forums
Culture Forums
Alliance Forums
Region Forums
Support Forums
Help & Search
General Discussion
In reply to the discussion: How did "creeps" and socially awkward men become conflated? [View all]JHB
(38,204 posts)19. Here's an essay that seems relevant to this discussion
It's on sexual harassment at SF/comic/anime/insert-your-fandom-here conventions
Theres been a lot of talk about recently, a great deal of online sharing of experiences from the women who have been on the receiving end of unwanted gropingor worsein what is supposed to be a safe place for geeks of stripes. Which has been wonderful, for reasons Ill get into. But Im seeing so many of the same responses to these discussions that Im not sure everyone understands what con harassment really is. And by everyone Im really talking about dudes. Women seem to understand this just fine. So, lets sit down, guys, and talk this out. Bro to bro.
To start with, con harassment is rarely done by socially awkward men. I see this confusion over and over. Socially awkward men may have uncomfortable conversations. They may spend too much time staring at womans cleavage. They may not take a hint that a conversation is done. But if youve ever spent some time around socially awkward men (and you probably have, its a big world) you may have noticed that they dont touch people. Touching adds an extra layer of complication to social interaction, one that can easily be avoided by not touching. So they dont.
Becauseand lets be clear on this guyswhile awkward conversations and horrible sexist speech are problems, the big concern in con harassment is physical violation. Groping, inappropriate touching and other, worse forms of invasion of a womans personal space. This is rarely done by social awkward men.
The kind of guys who grope women at cons are socially aware. They can recognize social signals of when a women is with a man who cares about her, or when she is functionally alone. They know when the social contract of silence can be enforced, when the atmosphere of drunkenness will provide them with an excuse, when they can have an easy getaway. These are not socially awkward men. Often they are talkers, practiced in using social rules to get what they want. Because they think they can get away with it.
The rest at:
To start with, con harassment is rarely done by socially awkward men. I see this confusion over and over. Socially awkward men may have uncomfortable conversations. They may spend too much time staring at womans cleavage. They may not take a hint that a conversation is done. But if youve ever spent some time around socially awkward men (and you probably have, its a big world) you may have noticed that they dont touch people. Touching adds an extra layer of complication to social interaction, one that can easily be avoided by not touching. So they dont.
Becauseand lets be clear on this guyswhile awkward conversations and horrible sexist speech are problems, the big concern in con harassment is physical violation. Groping, inappropriate touching and other, worse forms of invasion of a womans personal space. This is rarely done by social awkward men.
The kind of guys who grope women at cons are socially aware. They can recognize social signals of when a women is with a man who cares about her, or when she is functionally alone. They know when the social contract of silence can be enforced, when the atmosphere of drunkenness will provide them with an excuse, when they can have an easy getaway. These are not socially awkward men. Often they are talkers, practiced in using social rules to get what they want. Because they think they can get away with it.
http://www.jaredaxelrod.com/main/2013/07/02/what-we-talk-about-when-we-talk-about-con-harassment/
Edit history
Please sign in to view edit histories.
Recommendations
0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):
116 replies
= new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight:
NoneDon't highlight anything
5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
RecommendedHighlight replies with 5 or more recommendations
I've spent the last 23 years married to the love of my life, but that doesn't mean ...
11 Bravo
Dec 2013
#96
"Success in dating," "get the girl..." sorry, that's starting to sound a little creepy.
hunter
Dec 2013
#37
You must have missed this. Pretty much the opposite of what you're suggesting:
Comrade Grumpy
Dec 2013
#69
What you say has little to no basis in reality. And "awkward" men don't need to be demonized
nomorenomore08
Dec 2013
#109
absolutely. making socially awkward cool and lovable. the only show i watch. i love the characters.
seabeyond
Dec 2013
#30
the second was done because SOME men were defending the leering with socially awkward.
seabeyond
Dec 2013
#32
i think the reason it probably resonated with the OP'er is cause we had been hearing all day,
seabeyond
Dec 2013
#40
i agree. you do not see me starting OPs. i never do. and the majority of what i do address
seabeyond
Dec 2013
#51
good post dan. there was a lot talking about leering using it as an excuse for men,
seabeyond
Dec 2013
#25
i knew there were issues, as did the school and teachers. i never took him to the doctor to
seabeyond
Dec 2013
#74
I never have trouble understanding your posts. You do have a unique style and I suspect some use
retread
Dec 2013
#86
i appreciate it retread. thank you. have a happy couple days. i am off to enjoy
seabeyond
Dec 2013
#92
Nice post.. I love the last line because what a better world it would be
mountain grammy
Dec 2013
#33
When creeps/assholes started trying to say 'I'm not a creep, I'm just socially awkward!'
redqueen
Dec 2013
#43
"Creep" is a subjective perjorative label, not an objective description of activities
Demo_Chris
Dec 2013
#83
My objection is that you insist on using the term as something men DO, rather than something women f
Demo_Chris
Dec 2013
#94
Of course it's subjective. All "labels" are. Doesn't make them invalid, though.
nomorenomore08
Dec 2013
#113
haha, so she is demanding attention and the creep ignores her, LOL. Sure thing.
bettyellen
Dec 2013
#78
Men who've harrassed me, leered at me, gave creeepy vibes, generally haven't been the awkard types
kcr
Dec 2013
#59
I read that as him trying to be charitable to the kinds who see discussions of sexual harassment
redqueen
Dec 2013
#57
You'll have to ask Mr. Scorpio to clarify his intent. I can only give you my perspective.
redqueen
Dec 2013
#64
As a perfect example of someone who actually is both creepy and socially awkward, I present
Flatulo
Dec 2013
#56
Even if true, what about the significant percentage that aren't? It's a type of profiling
Tom Rinaldo
Dec 2013
#77
some guys cry "Unfair!" that women will allow the socially adept more leeway, and
bettyellen
Dec 2013
#68
Maybe partly because people tend to be simpleminded, and not big on nuance?
nomorenomore08
Dec 2013
#112