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(17,671 posts)
130. Liberals are all about cultural change.
Tue Dec 24, 2013, 12:33 PM
Dec 2013

Some change is slow, some change is rapid. Generally speaking, the more liberal you are, the more cultural change you want. There is a reason the word "revolution" appears so often in left leaning discourse.

It's my understanding that revolutionary movements have a fairly predictable life cycle. As success is achieved through change, there is always a group of revolutionaries who are more radical than the rest. Thus, there is a certain amount of tension between those revolutionaries that have achieved a measure of their revolutionary goals and those who feel that more change is in order. So now, the actual "winners" in the revolution become "conservatives" and thus enemies of the "true revolutionaries". Depending on the power dynamics there could be purges by the the radicals against the conservatives within the revolution, or the radicals could just become a contentious fringe.

So why doesn't this process of change through ideological purification continue until a utopia arrives? I think one way is that the more "radical" the radicals become the more they focus on ideology and doctrine than on how it will actually work in the real world. It becomes a litmus test to judge others instead of a plan for change. Whether the most radical of the radicals are actually able to enforce this adherence to their understanding of doctrine depends on how much real world power they have.

So now, consider the history of HoF here at DU. There was contention, a power struggle, an attempted coup, ideological splintering, demands that rivals be purged, and constant drum beating demands that others adhere to an ideological ideal.

You don't need a god to have a religion. And you don't need a holy book to have a sacred text. It all depends on the passion and objectives of the true believers. Is this a bad thing? Not really. There's nothing wrong with devotion to an ideal. Philosophers and shamans have devoted their lives to such things for millenia, and since politics is the religion of the enlightenment, that impulse continues right along with it.

Done and done Hobo Dec 2013 #1
I always go into these debates filled with righteous anger. Gravitycollapse Dec 2013 #2
Yes, it's vicious kcr Dec 2013 #55
They sure didn't unify the site today, did they? Vashta Nerada Dec 2013 #3
You mean because I posted that Indian PSA in HOF and RQ did in GD? BainsBane Dec 2013 #4
Is a woman checking out a man's ass predatory behavior? nt Bonobo Dec 2013 #5
Depending on how it's done and how he feels about it BainsBane Dec 2013 #8
But she can't really know at the moment, I guess. Bonobo Dec 2013 #11
Good lord BainsBane Dec 2013 #16
Good lord, I didn't say it was. nt Bonobo Dec 2013 #20
Why did you even raise the subject then? BainsBane Dec 2013 #27
They are most certainly on a continuum. Bonobo Dec 2013 #30
This began with an Indian PSA BainsBane Dec 2013 #34
Bonobo's not going to get it Scootaloo Dec 2013 #79
You did it again. "You ALL should have discussed with your fathers". 11 Bravo Dec 2013 #188
So some men should not learn from their fathers? BainsBane Dec 2013 #198
Correct, some men should not learn from their fathers. 11 Bravo Dec 2013 #217
Wow. Talk about predictable. kcr Dec 2013 #244
oh for fuck's sake mercuryblues Dec 2013 #202
Your inability to comprehend the meaning of the word "all" is not my problem. 11 Bravo Dec 2013 #213
and you ability mercuryblues Dec 2013 #222
I know kcr Dec 2013 #223
You couldn't outrage me even if you were coherent and intellectually honest. 11 Bravo Dec 2013 #226
+1... I would venture to say that a majority of men on DU are the "good guys" SomethingFishy Dec 2013 #216
they are not lumped in. and many men do not feel lumped in. that would be your clue in, seabeyond Dec 2013 #234
I think it was pretty clear who BB was referring to. kcr Dec 2013 #221
Mr. Scorpio explains it perfectly BainsBane Dec 2013 #18
I've done it n a predatory manner, so yes Matariki Dec 2013 #12
If she's much larger than him, then yes. seattledo Dec 2013 #138
Plenty of ad hominim attacks, strawmen, and red herrings today. Vashta Nerada Dec 2013 #15
I can hardly blame you for that BainsBane Dec 2013 #19
I don't believe posting that India PSA was innocent either. Vashta Nerada Dec 2013 #37
I really don't give a fuck BainsBane Dec 2013 #42
I appreciated your post of the PSA theHandpuppet Dec 2013 #45
+1000 I got accused of adding flames to the gender war when I posted a piece about 1monster Dec 2013 #178
A PSA airing on Indian TV is "not innocent?" What is it, guilty? Squinch Dec 2013 #48
Right. The conversation has been distracted away from the idea of imagining treestar Dec 2013 #63
And it seems that some on DU are quite horrified by the possibility that those leers being reflected Squinch Dec 2013 #71
Yep, it's probably men who know they do that sort of thing treestar Dec 2013 #74
My favorite: Squinch Dec 2013 #76
This isn't India. What is your point? sabrina 1 Dec 2013 #22
The point is the context of the PSA that upset a few around here today BainsBane Dec 2013 #26
If you believe that stuff is only a problem in India, you are so very sadly mistaken. redqueen Dec 2013 #87
Oh but we're supposed to be grateful that we xulamaude Dec 2013 #103
Seriously. redqueen Dec 2013 #110
That was a doozy, wasn't it? Whisp Dec 2013 #132
As someone who has no personal problems with you or any of the feminists on the board... Shandris Dec 2013 #50
Exactly so tkmorris Dec 2013 #53
Well by all means, don't speak about the PSA, criticize those you agree with boston bean Dec 2013 #100
Obviously being offended at someone's uppity attitude is more important than the issue at hand. redqueen Dec 2013 #172
Consider it a matter of principle... Shandris Dec 2013 #191
+2 ..... oldhippie Dec 2013 #143
Exactly right n/t mokawanis Dec 2013 #167
you mean good will to all BlueToTheBone Dec 2013 #58
Really? Vashta Nerada Dec 2013 #65
Really. You left out 51% BlueToTheBone Dec 2013 #91
I was quoting a lyric to a Christmas song. Vashta Nerada Dec 2013 #109
Sorry, I missed BlueToTheBone Dec 2013 #128
This message was self-deleted by its author hughee99 Dec 2013 #152
This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague Dec 2013 #6
The Great Pumpkin brought it back BainsBane Dec 2013 #7
This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague Dec 2013 #10
Well it certainly has picked up dramatically BainsBane Dec 2013 #14
This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague Dec 2013 #17
You didn't miss the attempted flame out? BainsBane Dec 2013 #21
This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague Dec 2013 #23
Here BainsBane Dec 2013 #24
This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague Dec 2013 #28
OMG...that THREAD! HOF is communiss! PassingFair Dec 2013 #144
How did I miss that one?! xulamaude Dec 2013 #162
wasnt that a pretty disgustingly offensive Op and thread. and i was told to not take it personally. seabeyond Dec 2013 #171
So what you are saying is: Ignore others, it is easy. huh. Have you tried that in real life? The Straight Story Dec 2013 #9
I do it all the time BainsBane Dec 2013 #13
Ignore just leads to dupes.. Jesus Malverde Dec 2013 #25
'Thank you BainsBane Dec 2013 #29
I've never put anyone on ignore dipsydoodle Dec 2013 #31
Merry Christmas to you as well, dipsydoodle! BainsBane Dec 2013 #32
Why ignore? Too much fun! Love ya:) grahamhgreen Dec 2013 #33
+1 CFLDem Dec 2013 #51
This is an odd debate. It has plenty of merit, but the lines are so gray in my opinion. wyldwolf Dec 2013 #35
I've been that 8 yr old girl BainsBane Dec 2013 #36
they usually haven't done anything 'wrong.' wyldwolf Dec 2013 #38
You do hit on something interesting The Straight Story Dec 2013 #40
good points wyldwolf Dec 2013 #41
It doesn't happen divorced from context. KitSileya Dec 2013 #46
Blurred lines MostlyAmused Dec 2013 #54
IT could depend on her experience treestar Dec 2013 #56
Did you watch the PSA? BainsBane Dec 2013 #44
I did and I know exactly where you're coming from wyldwolf Dec 2013 #47
"But when you're a dad, every man is suspect." xulamaude Dec 2013 #64
In jail for looking at a little girl that way? Are you nuts? HERVEPA Dec 2013 #164
I assume anyone who leers at little girls BainsBane Dec 2013 #186
That is an incorrect and I believe ridiculous assumption HERVEPA Dec 2013 #219
Clearly they are pedophiles BainsBane Dec 2013 #220
My post was in response to men who looked at kids a certain way. HERVEPA Dec 2013 #243
In what context? treestar Dec 2013 #57
In MY context wyldwolf Dec 2013 #60
You mean you can't help it? treestar Dec 2013 #61
Sorry, 'science' is not a defense, it's a fact wyldwolf Dec 2013 #66
I'm denying that people have to stare at strangers who aren't enjoying it treestar Dec 2013 #68
ok, I'm with you on some people not enjoying being looked at... wyldwolf Dec 2013 #70
best of both worlds and easy answer. see her as a person. if she is interested, you would actually seabeyond Dec 2013 #84
why would you suggest it is evo when in fact, from a young boy culture taught you it was your right seabeyond Dec 2013 #77
no. HERVEPA Dec 2013 #165
lol seabeyond Dec 2013 #169
If there are trolls, they would have a wonderful time fostering these fights. Festivito Dec 2013 #39
I have most of the MRAs from the He-Man's Group on Ignore, and it's made a huge Sheldon Cooper Dec 2013 #43
Someone just lost their alerting priveleges for 24 hours ... Tuesday Afternoon Dec 2013 #242
Hahahahahahaha!!!!! Sheldon Cooper Dec 2013 #245
I am still trying to figure out why ... etherealtruth Dec 2013 #49
It's not the thoughts that are being expressed ....... oldhippie Dec 2013 #52
Like the way they were expressed in the PSA? xulamaude Dec 2013 #62
I never saw the PSA ..... oldhippie Dec 2013 #72
Then maybe you should watch it - xulamaude Dec 2013 #75
Why or if they were "rightfully" offended .... oldhippie Dec 2013 #81
Yeah. Far out. nt xulamaude Dec 2013 #86
Far out? oldhippie Dec 2013 #90
Old Hippie?? xulamaude Dec 2013 #93
Yep, though I believe ol' Maynard .... oldhippie Dec 2013 #101
i am done with this old. too many people are doing just what you did. creating an animosity toward seabeyond Dec 2013 #88
Yes ma'am! oldhippie Dec 2013 #98
you did the exact thing with this post. it is all about creating a hateful caracture to dismiss seabeyond Dec 2013 #106
HEY? IS YOUR SHIFT KEY BROKEN? xulamaude Dec 2013 #114
ya know. cant argue, go to this. so silly. obviously i have no desire to shift. seabeyond Dec 2013 #119
That may be true sometimes etherealtruth Dec 2013 #111
Thank you for a civil reply ..... oldhippie Dec 2013 #121
So sick of the this fucking tone argument. JTFrog Dec 2013 #131
Well, gee, thanks ....... oldhippie Dec 2013 #139
I make no apologies for women who stand up JTFrog Dec 2013 #145
You don't need to make apologies on behalf of women. You need to apologize for your own behavior. DisgustipatedinCA Dec 2013 #176
a consistent argument from people that are anti feminism tell us... if we would use a different tone seabeyond Dec 2013 #179
I will not apologize. JTFrog Dec 2013 #227
Yeah, I was pretty sure it wasn't in your character to apologize for being boorish DisgustipatedinCA Dec 2013 #228
not that you actually addressed the issue that i pointed out to you. so you can better understand seabeyond Dec 2013 #229
My purpose was to let the other poster know they were being rude for no good reason DisgustipatedinCA Dec 2013 #231
when tone is used as a dismissal of ones voice, and we know what it as used as, seabeyond Dec 2013 #232
Merry Christmas, seabeyond. nt DisgustipatedinCA Dec 2013 #233
thank you. and the same to you and yours. nt seabeyond Dec 2013 #235
There was very good reason. JTFrog Dec 2013 #236
Merry Christmas, JTFrog. nt DisgustipatedinCA Dec 2013 #238
Part of the problem is that a slogan is no reason to stop using common sense. stevenleser Dec 2013 #241
If we ignore, that means you can brow beat the new posters and non-ignorers unchecked NoOneMan Dec 2013 #59
Nag, nag, nag... xulamaude Dec 2013 #67
brow beat? please quit with the insults. seabeyond Dec 2013 #89
If I had a better word, I would use it NoOneMan Dec 2013 #92
it is a caricature that is being continuously created of us women. we are allowed opinion, thought seabeyond Dec 2013 #96
"created by us" could be more accurate NoOneMan Dec 2013 #99
suspects? choice of words. and do post where i name call or personally attack. i address the issue seabeyond Dec 2013 #108
Yep. The Usual Suspects. Its a great pop-culture movie. NoOneMan Dec 2013 #115
Ah, the lack of context xulamaude Dec 2013 #117
ah nooneman, i am done. i give in good faith, and then the game begins. have a happy holiday. seabeyond Dec 2013 #120
You too! NoOneMan Dec 2013 #122
Brow beat, hectoring, harping, hen-pecking, .... oldhippie Dec 2013 #113
you would be incorrect. man hater is accepted. i have been called it by at least 5, 6, 7 seabeyond Dec 2013 #123
No, you would be incorrect .... oldhippie Dec 2013 #125
the link goes to "that is not your message". and good. i am glad to hear. thank you. but, no seabeyond Dec 2013 #129
Oops redqueen Dec 2013 #141
seems to be two different posters. though i am glad to see that poster finally get one of his posts seabeyond Dec 2013 #146
Nope, sorry, that wasn't my post ..... oldhippie Dec 2013 #148
Yeah, I thought you posted that other one, mea culpa. redqueen Dec 2013 #151
I thought that was kind of strange also ..... oldhippie Dec 2013 #161
#6 sounds like on your side, hit wrong button. i would like to see your post. jsut saw another seabeyond Dec 2013 #154
Post removed Post removed Dec 2013 #159
Brow beat: daring to challenge privilege BainsBane Dec 2013 #192
I was more referring to redundant, tag-team shout downs NoOneMan Dec 2013 #194
Oh, so the problem is that more than one woman disagrees with you? BainsBane Dec 2013 #195
So yeah, you keep making up things I say and Ill just reciprocate NoOneMan Dec 2013 #197
Oh dear. I spoke out of turn again BainsBane Dec 2013 #199
Your behavior has nothing to do with you being a woman NoOneMan Dec 2013 #200
Oh, so you say the say thing in all the NSA threads BainsBane Dec 2013 #201
If the shoe fits, Ill call it out NoOneMan Dec 2013 #203
Really. Are you among that group? BainsBane Dec 2013 #205
With all due respect, wargle bargle NoOneMan Dec 2013 #206
right, I do recall your saying telling someone BainsBane Dec 2013 #210
Yes, it was. I do not think people should cower in the face of prejudice. NoOneMan Dec 2013 #212
This OP had a simple message BainsBane Dec 2013 #207
Its not that simple. You cannot define acceptable behavior and responses for people NoOneMan Dec 2013 #211
The word you are looking for is "Bully". RC Dec 2013 #196
Thank you. That is exactly the issue NoOneMan Dec 2013 #218
Why is there even a controversy about feminists? LWolf Dec 2013 #69
based on my limited knowledge of the threads in question (there have been many) wyldwolf Dec 2013 #73
Limited knowledge, indeed. xulamaude Dec 2013 #78
I think that's a little off. Squinch Dec 2013 #80
One man once told me LWolf Dec 2013 #82
It's actually not treestar Dec 2013 #85
that is what the argument devolved to because it is much easier for SOME men to derail seabeyond Dec 2013 #94
some NoOneMan Dec 2013 #107
yes. because i gave you and others more credit to be honest, than what you obviously deserved. seabeyond Dec 2013 #112
I appreciate that NoOneMan Dec 2013 #118
i think it is dishonest. nt seabeyond Dec 2013 #124
Women don't communicate clearly. Marr Dec 2013 #174
actually the opposite. saying women is not saying ALL. you know it. i know it. seabeyond Dec 2013 #175
At best, it's ambiguous. Marr Dec 2013 #183
They chose to make it about that BainsBane Dec 2013 #193
I'm not sure there i NoOneMan Dec 2013 #83
Define feminist for us "disruptors" "claiming" to be feminists, xulamaude Dec 2013 #97
To state that people claim to be feminists doesn't state they are not in fact NoOneMan Dec 2013 #102
Wut? Um, no thanks. xulamaude Dec 2013 #104
Do you tell people you "take Obama at his word" when he says he's an American? Squinch Dec 2013 #134
Is Obama an anonymous internet poster with patterned behavior of disruptive e-fights? NoOneMan Dec 2013 #135
The controversy isn't about feminisim per se Mopar151 Dec 2013 #105
Maybe. LWolf Dec 2013 #185
you walk into someones sand box, be respectful. i do when walking into another. not respectful, seabeyond Dec 2013 #189
Ignore? No way. rrneck Dec 2013 #95
so, you manner in addressing is to create a false caricature to paint a group of women in an seabeyond Dec 2013 #116
Liberals are all about cultural change. rrneck Dec 2013 #130
you create what you want to argue. one can also argue that we have been thru all this in the past, seabeyond Dec 2013 #136
I'm sure you're aware of how HoF was created rrneck Dec 2013 #157
the Op says if you do not like us, ignore us. that is nothing to do with banning, nor changing the seabeyond Dec 2013 #170
Why would I want to ignore someone who so desperately wants to be heard? rrneck Dec 2013 #177
again, you were supposedly giving suport to your argument we want to change TOS and something else. seabeyond Dec 2013 #180
Happy holidays to you as well. rrneck Dec 2013 #182
Duck Dynasty's PREACHER PATRIARCH Phil Robertson: "A good woman is hard to find. Mainly because Zorra Dec 2013 #126
I just regret that we're dividing this house when we should be fighting the Republicans. [nt] Jester Messiah Dec 2013 #127
Republicans want to control women and their bodies. JTFrog Dec 2013 #133
and you, woman. because i love you so. and have not heard your voice in so long... YOU... seabeyond Dec 2013 #140
Thank you sea. JTFrog Dec 2013 #142
Post removed Post removed Dec 2013 #149
You poor thing. JTFrog Dec 2013 #150
And yours. Jester Messiah Dec 2013 #153
Does it make you feel better to tell me what to do? JTFrog Dec 2013 #156
It's a prediction, not a command. Jester Messiah Dec 2013 #158
Hence all your posts on what JTFrog Dec 2013 #160
Are you or are you not A-Schwarzenegger Dec 2013 #163
The war on men is obviously out of control. JTFrog Dec 2013 #166
LOL! xulamaude Dec 2013 #184
+1 NoOneMan Dec 2013 #137
Ah, the old 'More Important Issues' derailing tactic redqueen Dec 2013 #147
Funny you should mention rail. Jester Messiah Dec 2013 #155
Because nothing is more important than alienating more men from the Democratic party. lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #168
Alienating women does appear to be more important BainsBane Dec 2013 #208
I think it would be remarkable that "the behavior of some" lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #215
when you stop creating our behavior into something it isnt, then i will take you seriously. and jeff seabeyond Dec 2013 #237
Would that be like the division around the NSA, Showden, Manning BainsBane Dec 2013 #187
But then I'd miss out on the delicious drama of the week n/t Kurska Dec 2013 #173
More fun than a barrel of monkeys. rrneck Dec 2013 #181
some of us actually do not see it as a game. and ya, we get it that for some, womens issue is a game seabeyond Dec 2013 #190
Or Trash your threads? 99Forever Dec 2013 #204
that works too BainsBane Dec 2013 #209
Yes it did. 99Forever Dec 2013 #214
There's way too much that ails DU for anyone or any one group to take full credit. Silent3 Dec 2013 #224
I agree, at least with the first part of that BainsBane Dec 2013 #240
I am a red blooded Notafraidtoo Dec 2013 #225
i am in love. i had to reread a couple times to make sure i was comprehending. seabeyond Dec 2013 #230
Thank you BainsBane Dec 2013 #239
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