General Discussion

skepticscott

(13,029 posts)

158. No, people here who understand

Thu Dec 26, 2013, 11:54 AM

Dec 2013

know perfectly well that the pope will not be changing anything that matters in church doctrine, teaching, law or policy as they pertain to same-sex marriage or homosexuals in general. But people crow about how much the pope has changed, and when they are challenged to show exactly what he's changed that really matters, they backpedal wildly, saying "well…but…but…the pope CAN'T change THAT!", or "He hasn't had TIME to change that!"

We also understand that the church has conveniently arranged that homosexuals cannot have sex inside of a marriage, no matter how committed to each other they are, while they continue cluck-clucking over premarital sex by heterosexual couples, but going ahead with those marriages anyway, with a wink and a nod. It's the double standard, backed up by what the RCC claims to be the infallible and unquestionable word of "god" that warrants the barrage of criticism.

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Pope Francis shows Democrats how to take back America [View all] MannyGoldstein Dec 2013 OP

Economic progressivism and social justice have been a cornerstone of Catholicism all my life. onehandle Dec 2013 #1

We need to do the same. MannyGoldstein Dec 2013 #2

#popeulism = a religious doctrine where one sides with the people against the sins of the elite Coyotl Dec 2013 #73

Our RC Church was packed last night... nradisic Dec 2013 #82

True, Sir The Magistrate Dec 2013 #3

OMG ! I just rec'ed a thread by jaysunb Dec 2013 #4

I recommend all of MannyGoldstein's threads. Enthusiast Dec 2013 #14

Me too. And another rec for Manny who actually 'gets' it. sabrina 1 Dec 2013 #20

It makes me feel better. Enthusiast Dec 2013 #22

Awww. I got that album for Christmas in 1982. Fawke Em Dec 2013 #114

I just love The Who. Enthusiast Dec 2013 #129

I do, too. Fawke Em Dec 2013 #178

How cool! Enthusiast Dec 2013 #179

Vinyl is best. Me, too. Fawke Em Jan 2014 #191

Me too! sabrina 1 Dec 2013 #144

I do too. dflprincess Dec 2013 #24

Ditto swilton Dec 2013 #69

Hi, swilton! With the change of just one letter you could be a great blue cheese. Enthusiast Dec 2013 #130

So do I. 840high Dec 2013 #139

ROFL!!! Number23 Dec 2013 #37

Welcome to the Dark Side. MannyGoldstein Dec 2013 #85

Either that, or a sure sign of the Apocalypse. winter is coming Dec 2013 #124

+1 n/t jaysunb Dec 2013 #127

Well let's see if we can get the Pope to help us get the politicians to commit to REAL campaign Dustlawyer Dec 2013 #138

The people are hungry for true representation, for someone who will fight for economic justice. liberal_at_heart Dec 2013 #5

Indeed...although we've been fighting for that person for awhile now... KoKo Dec 2013 #6

That is it. Enthusiast Dec 2013 #16

The lesson of the 88% is skepticscott Dec 2013 #7

Oh but he has changed quite a number of things in just 9 months. Made some nasty enemies, too... Hekate Dec 2013 #9

Give us a list skepticscott Dec 2013 #87

Don't be too lazy or prejudiced yourself to LOOK IT UP Hekate Dec 2013 #118

Then you should have no trouble linking to it skepticscott Dec 2013 #126

Apparently you are skepticscott Dec 2013 #177

No you will not get an 88% by telling the people 'what the want to hear'. Our politicians are sabrina 1 Dec 2013 #23

That's a good point - The People want authenticity MannyGoldstein Dec 2013 #30

Pretending to be one thing while they are campaigning... madfloridian Dec 2013 #68

Hmm.... Sounds familiar: bvar22 Dec 2013 #83

bvar! I knew you'd stop by and inform the discourse! MannyGoldstein Dec 2013 #84

Same to you, Manny! bvar22 Dec 2013 #100

Amen. madfloridian Dec 2013 #67

George W. Bush skepticscott Dec 2013 #89

The Pope is making people aware of the most important issue of our time. Kermitt Gribble Dec 2013 #93

And as usual, he's late to the party skepticscott Dec 2013 #99

Late to the party, when was he made Pope? WHEN CRABS ROAR Dec 2013 #141

A prominent figure is speaking out on this issue - that is very important. Kermitt Gribble Dec 2013 #145

Both immediately following disaster or war. Per usual. Giuliani had a high approval rating after El_Johns Dec 2013 #119

Well, think of it as a demonstration of what people want, if nothing else Scootaloo Dec 2013 #38

I know you're a skeptic (sp), tavalon Dec 2013 #42

He has not said that the church skepticscott Dec 2013 #90

No, he said explicitly BarackTheVote Jan 2014 #183

He and all of his predecessors skepticscott Jan 2014 #186

I am a practicing church-going Catholic BarackTheVote Jan 2014 #189

He has changed a lot, but changing a huge, entrenched organization isn't something pnwmom Dec 2013 #44

What has he actually changed, other than tone? skepticscott Dec 2013 #86

He's making personnel changes, which will have a major impact pnwmom Dec 2013 #109

Ah, I see skepticscott Dec 2013 #113

+1 theHandpuppet Dec 2013 #116

Each Bishop manages his own diocese, and the Pope doesn't micromanage. pnwmom Dec 2013 #120

Ah, good then... skepticscott Dec 2013 #128

I have to agree and disagree with you Fortinbras Armstrong Dec 2013 #148

So the the archbishop in Seattle skepticscott Dec 2013 #151

Post removed Post removed Dec 2013 #147

Ah, so when you agreed with me in post 148 skepticscott Dec 2013 #153

I'm sure the mystery will be revealed in ATA Hassin Bin Sober Dec 2013 #168

Oh, believe me skepticscott Dec 2013 #169

Admin appears to have a serious backlog in ATA, so we may have to wait a while. cleanhippie Dec 2013 #174

Our friend was apparently skepticscott Jan 2014 #180

+1 cleanhippie Dec 2013 #173

Oh what the hell, I'll rec this. joshcryer Dec 2013 #8

Amen to that... zeemike Dec 2013 #10

Haven't seen it yet tavalon Dec 2013 #41

Oh, there are people on DU who trash the Pope Fortinbras Armstrong Dec 2013 #72

A very scholarly look at the subject. zeemike Dec 2013 #78

I believe that the Jesuits believe that Mary Magdalene was an Apostle (priest) of Jesus me b zola Dec 2013 #103

Trying to explain to people here that the Pope does not have authority to change Canon Law is hard Drahthaardogs Dec 2013 #117

No, people here who understand skepticscott Dec 2013 #158

KnR Manny, and Happy Holidays to you. Hekate Dec 2013 #11

Oh, baby! Enthusiast Dec 2013 #12

well said. peoli Dec 2013 #13

now this is a post I can get behind. BlancheSplanchnik Dec 2013 #15

We are a good lot, except when we aren't tavalon Dec 2013 #40

Hope is a good thing MannyGoldstein lonestarnot Dec 2013 #17

the yammerings of petulant feral children Enthusiast Dec 2013 #18

Yes Enthusiast Dec 2013 #19

Among Catholics, Benedict had a 76% approval rating and JP 2 was at 87% Bluenorthwest Dec 2013 #55

This OP is beyond excellent. JDPriestly Dec 2013 #21

Pope Francis reflects the teachings of Christ, the Democratic party reflects 1980's Republicans raindaddy Dec 2013 #25

We know this. Enthusiast Dec 2013 #28

Christ would be against abortion, contraceptives, and gays? joshcryer Dec 2013 #43

Another excellent post! Phlem Dec 2013 #26

This should have hundreds of recommendations! Enthusiast Dec 2013 #27

Would that I could recommend this more than once. What's really good about this message is... Populist_Prole Dec 2013 #29

Bill O pissed off my Republican Catholic grandmother BarackTheVote Jan 2014 #184

It Would Be Interesting To See A Breakout DallasNE Dec 2013 #31

Too bad this party is owned by Wall Street too. PeteSelman Dec 2013 #32

Sometimes you are brilliant madokie Dec 2013 #33

Well, Obama has SAID a lot of the things Pope Francis is talking about BlueStreak Dec 2013 #34

We need a candidate who can articulate bucolic_frolic Dec 2013 #49

It has been a long grind for Catholics BlueStreak Dec 2013 #66

Amen to that. jsr Dec 2013 #35

Church polls might not be comparable to political polls NoOneMan Dec 2013 #36

Agreed to a point. BarackTheVote Jan 2014 #185

Heck, I'm not even Catholic, tavalon Dec 2013 #39

I love it that he's a slap in the face to the Paul Ryan pseudo-Catholics pnwmom Dec 2013 #45

The Presidential campaigns of Fred Harris say otherwise about Americans. WinkyDink Dec 2013 #46

Kick. Now if we can just wrest the Democratic Party away from the conservatives runnning it. Scuba Dec 2013 #47

'Bout Time bucolic_frolic Dec 2013 #48

Change: ProSense Dec 2013 #50

Pope Francis shows how to take back America if you want a Third Way regime... MellowDem Dec 2013 #51

More change. ProSense Dec 2013 #52

For those interested in honest facts, Francis is a known anti gay equality crusader. To claim Bluenorthwest Dec 2013 #63

"Yes, Pope Francis has certainly placed the Roman Catholic Church on a far better track" MannyGoldstein Dec 2013 #81

A far better PR track, perhaps. cleanhippie Dec 2013 #175

Among Catholics, Benedict had a 76% approval rating and JP 2 was at 87% Bluenorthwest Dec 2013 #53

more than half of American Catholics said Pope John Paul II was out of step... MannyGoldstein Dec 2013 #60

How sad that you would not bother to look up the facts. Bluenorthwest Dec 2013 #64

Can you please tell us the name of the last pro gay pope? A Simple Game Dec 2013 #77

That's different than what you claimed. nt MannyGoldstein Dec 2013 #80

I see at the end there you quote Francis on his private international jet... Bluenorthwest Dec 2013 #65

"Are you happy about the Uganda laws"... El_Johns Dec 2013 #122

Both are vile, when it comes to that. MineralMan Dec 2013 #154

Actually, the poster was implying the catholic church was behind Uganda's "kill the gay" laws. El_Johns Dec 2013 #176

I propose a $12.50 minimum wage initiative petition drive in every state possible in 2014. Coyotl Dec 2013 #54

Yep great first step... humbled_opinion Dec 2013 #58

First Way, BEST Way! . . . .n/t annabanana Dec 2013 #56

Maybe you haven't been paying attention but... humbled_opinion Dec 2013 #57

Two-thirds of Americans *favor* any individual big-government program you can name MannyGoldstein Dec 2013 #61

Yes we all love the programs.. humbled_opinion Dec 2013 #134

US Catholics = 88% .. US non-Catholics = 75% DemoTex Dec 2013 #59

The only problem is... GoCubsGo Dec 2013 #62

I wonder if this Pope has the nerve/courage fadedrose Dec 2013 #70

Last week Uganda, a nation in which the largest religious group is RCC at 43%, passed anti gay Bluenorthwest Dec 2013 #74

Doesn't sound very encouragiing, does it....nt fadedrose Dec 2013 #112

Why do you keep talking about Uganda? That's on Obama's friend Rick Warren, & on Hilary's El_Johns Dec 2013 #125

Here's some Francis background: Bluenorthwest Dec 2013 #71

Did they deny comunion to politicians? MannyGoldstein Dec 2013 #79

"We all must work together." RoccoR5955 Dec 2013 #75

Sounds like a good PR push Go Vols Dec 2013 #136

WE are the Moral Majority--always have been randr Dec 2013 #76

A Christmas DURec... bvar22 Dec 2013 #88

K/R Jack Rabbit Dec 2013 #91

Loved this line in the original post Dem_in_Nebr. Dec 2013 #92

Sadly, there is no social justice without the following things: MineralMan Dec 2013 #94

President Obama was against gay marriage until most Americans were for it MannyGoldstein Dec 2013 #96

I don't see his message having much effect in the United States. MineralMan Dec 2013 #97

75% of Americans approve of Pope Francis. MannyGoldstein Dec 2013 #98

The Pope is not black. Think what it would be like if he were. kelliekat44 Dec 2013 #101

The Pope hasn't called for cutting benefit to to poor, the sick, and the aged MannyGoldstein Dec 2013 #102

The pope doesn't have a country to run and is not elected by those he serves. nt kelliekat44 Dec 2013 #104

Vatican City is a (postage-stamp, as they say) country. WinkyDink Dec 2013 #133

ROFLMAO! NealK Dec 2013 #149

Actually, ProSense Dec 2013 #105

Maybe because Obama actually CAMPAIGNED for his position? With everything that is attendant upon WinkyDink Dec 2013 #132

101 posts before the race card was played Doctor_J Dec 2013 #143

How is that relevant to his non-support MineralMan Dec 2013 #150

"I don't see his message having much effect in the United States" MannyGoldstein Dec 2013 #155

Look. You're holding up Pope Francis as some sort of MineralMan Dec 2013 #156

Thank you, MineralMan theHandpuppet Dec 2013 #157

What I think of Francis is not important MannyGoldstein Dec 2013 #159

Really? Suppose you are a young, non-Catholic woman MineralMan Dec 2013 #161

You're proving my point MannyGoldstein Dec 2013 #165

Please proceed, then, Manny. MineralMan Dec 2013 #166

You decide who you want to champion. You don't decide that for others. DisgustipatedinCA Dec 2013 #160

I am stating my opinion. I'm not telling others what MineralMan Dec 2013 #162

You're telling everyone what their opinion SHOULD be. DisgustipatedinCA Dec 2013 #163

OK. Well, thanks for your reply. MineralMan Dec 2013 #164

"And then our party lost its way." Spitfire of ATJ Dec 2013 #95

So we're all going to like Pope Francis now because of one issue? Vashta Nerada Dec 2013 #106

the best thing to happen to the church since Jesus! S.A.M Dec 2013 #107

Wouldn't it be interesting if Pope Francis became the leader Occupy always lacked. pa28 Dec 2013 #108

It's possible. Could be a game changer. harun Dec 2013 #137

I have vague hopes that this pope might cause the evangelicals to... JHB Dec 2013 #110

"the yammerings of petulant feral children" Android3.14 Dec 2013 #111

K & R !!! WillyT Dec 2013 #115

KnR sarchasm Dec 2013 #121

Sitting in front of the cathedral in Spokane last night, watching the homeless guy wrap himself jtuck004 Dec 2013 #123

Pope F1 (heh) is moving apace. Anyone who thinks he should simply throw over doctrine is nuts. Who WinkyDink Dec 2013 #131

you seem to confuse properly legislated secular law with 'doctrine'. Bluenorthwest Jan 2014 #182

I believe you should direct this post to the OP. I am as secular as one can get, idjit. WinkyDink Jan 2014 #193

Depending on what Lutheran Denomenation your in.. PatrynXX Dec 2013 #135

Catalyst voteearlyvoteoften Dec 2013 #140

That message is how candidate Obama won the landslide in 2008 Doctor_J Dec 2013 #142

Great post, Manny. woo me with science Dec 2013 #146

k&r for economic justice. n/t Laelth Dec 2013 #152

Hell-o Manny, rustbeltvoice Dec 2013 #167

Thank you. I note that Raymond Burke was MannyGoldstein Dec 2013 #170

Yes. rustbeltvoice Dec 2013 #172

Welcome to DU! BarackTheVote Jan 2014 #188

k&r... spanone Dec 2013 #171

Jim Jones had huge approval numbers among his followers as well. To die for. Bluenorthwest Jan 2014 #181

I'll let you know when the Pope tells a billion Catholics to commit suicide. rug Jan 2014 #187

Recommended. H2O Man Jan 2014 #190

kick woo me with science Jan 2014 #192

kick woo me with science Jan 2014 #194