General Discussion

Bernardo de La Paz

(60,320 posts)

48. Questioning policy good. Drawing lines & purity tests & circular firing squads is bad.

Thu Dec 26, 2013, 08:03 PM

Dec 2013

It is great to argue and debate and hash out policy and positions. But nobody is going to adhere to every single plank in a platform unless the planks are very weak and meaningless or unless they are the author of the planks.

Devising ways to make a party smaller is a recipe for failure. That is what the Tea party purists are doing to the Republican party.

Purism and purity tests ("Either you believe X or you are not a true Democrat&quot just drives people away.

If people agree 51% with a platform then maybe they can vote for it. Making the platform so extreme that only a minority can agree with 51% of it loses elections.

Purists are more concerned with purity than accomplishing policy through legislative and executive power.

Debate is great if it is without in-versus-out exclusionism. It is great without all-or-nothing binary thinking.

Allow shades of gray and colors.

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Only 22% of Democrats show interest in 2014 voting. Maybe "purists" need to be heard. [View all] madfloridian Dec 2013 OP

du rec. xchrom Dec 2013 #1

Triangulation or "centrism" was always about chasing the money at the detriment of average GoneFishin Dec 2013 #156

Or maybe they need to quiet down a little and rethink their strategy..... AverageJoe90 Dec 2013 #2

Yes, it is. Past time. Oops you just used the words "purity politics". Oops madfloridian Dec 2013 #5

we have been hearing now is not the time since 1992 backwoodsbob Dec 2013 #12

We can relax once another Democrat is elected. But not yet. nt AverageJoe90 Dec 2013 #19

even if it is a rw or Corporatist dem...if you say so NT backwoodsbob Dec 2013 #20

by "relax", do you mean "we can fight FOR things, rather than just against things"? Ken Burch Dec 2013 #25

Defensive politics have almost never won us any ground... Veilex Dec 2013 #133

What we needed starting a decade and a half back, was More Howard Dean, less Rahm Emanuel. maddiemom Dec 2013 #174

LOL!!! TransitJohn Dec 2013 #31

I know, brilliant parody, right? I think... Comrade Grumpy Dec 2013 #44

After the Democrat is elected, it will be very important to NOT criticize them. stillwaiting Dec 2013 #76

A real Democrat? MattSh Dec 2013 #134

Good one! City Lights Dec 2013 #170

If "another Democrat" is a euphemism for Hillary, you can forget it. JDPriestly Dec 2013 #208

What happened in 2010 sulphurdunn Dec 2013 #45

Exactly. They, as a group, are precisely the wrong people to achieve anything positive. Egalitarian Thug Dec 2013 #56

The lesson of 2010 is "support must be EARNED...not DEMANDED". Ken Burch Dec 2013 #58

We need to kick the centrists out. Oakenshield Dec 2013 #83

This is an important discussion. kentuck Dec 2013 #86

Well said, Kentuck. No one needs to be kicked out. No one marginalized. madfloridian Dec 2013 #91

the Republican party that had just been completely repudiated at the polls Doctor_J Dec 2013 #95

Hopefully the other "80" ott-percent have woken and now see the reality Left Coast2020 Dec 2013 #140

! City Lights Dec 2013 #171

That's right. LWolf Dec 2013 #73

No, I guess it is time for fascism. PowerToThePeople Dec 2013 #89

as long as it's enacted by Dems, it'd be fine with many here Doctor_J Dec 2013 #96

Our enemies always tell us it's "not time" for us to take a stand on the issues. Just roll over, DC blkmusclmachine Dec 2013 #122

If purity politics means voting what you believe in, it's always time for it. merrily Dec 2013 #147

you know... its attempts like this that turned me off even more from fascisthunter Dec 2013 #190

Where Dems lost soundly because they didn't do anything for 2 years? Ash_F Dec 2013 #198

You mean, *couldn't*, mostly, right? AverageJoe90 Dec 2013 #205

No... "wouldn't" /nt Ash_F Dec 2013 #219

You know.. this is the problem right here. nt RedCappedBandit Dec 2013 #220

Gee. Add that to the 50-percent who don't vote no matter what... Octafish Dec 2013 #3

The Party apparatus foisted Obama and his "Change!" on us in '08/'12, knowing full well that it was blkmusclmachine Dec 2013 #123

I never bought Obama's populist shtick Lydia Leftcoast Dec 2013 #222

So long as the Repubs only get 21%, we are doing great! kentuck Dec 2013 #4

the fact of the matter is MOST Republican politicians and professional operatives are movement Douglas Carpenter Dec 2013 #6

Well said, and I would add... Demo_Chris Dec 2013 #39

One problem Andy823 Dec 2013 #52

Not really my point... Demo_Chris Dec 2013 #79

But my point is Andy823 Dec 2013 #177

Compromise takes place when we don't seize the assets of the wealthy... Demo_Chris Dec 2013 #189

"Stand firm on nothing:" Nicely put. Eleanors38 Dec 2013 #241

+10 (nt) reACTIONary Dec 2013 #108

And a total takeover by the GOP helps you further your "progressive" goals, how? Tarheel_Dem Dec 2013 #7

Did I advocate a takeover by the GOP? No, of course I didn't. madfloridian Dec 2013 #11

I don't argue with you. I don't really understand you, but I'm certainly not going to "argue" with Tarheel_Dem Dec 2013 #17

You continue to argue for a civil-war in the Democratic party... ConservativeDemocrat Dec 2013 #33

Not a Civil War--an Occupation Demeter Dec 2013 #36

We already had a civil war sulphurdunn Dec 2013 #47

No, I did NOT argue for a "civil war" in the party. I certainly did not. Not a Nader voter. madfloridian Dec 2013 #51

And if you just want a Wall Street supporter for president, then Clinton vs. Christie is rhett o rick Dec 2013 #61

"ConservativeDemocrat"??? Democrats aren't conservative. polichick Dec 2013 #93

Good point. kentuck Dec 2013 #94

Real ones aren't MissDeeds Dec 2013 #194

Please look at this chart, and check your eyesight ConservativeDemocrat Dec 2013 #211

A lot of people (Dems included) conflate the two kinds of liberal Lydia Leftcoast Dec 2013 #224

+10 (nt) reACTIONary Dec 2013 #112

Not what madfloridian was calling for and you damn well know it. Ken Burch Dec 2013 #27

Arguing by asking question has a name. It's a technique used by faux News. rhett o rick Dec 2013 #62

+10 (nt) reACTIONary Dec 2013 #110

Exactly. We don't need GOP policy positions in our party. grahamhgreen Dec 2013 #120

When have you ever heard a member of the GOP say Aerows Dec 2013 #203

You guys should start your own party. Oh wait....you did! Tarheel_Dem Dec 2013 #215

I have no idea who those two people are Aerows Dec 2013 #216

Sounds like they'd be worth investigating for you, since you guys are always pissed at Democrats. Tarheel_Dem Dec 2013 #217

What are you here for? Aerows Dec 2013 #218

I have absolutely nothing in common with the "trashers", and who says they're "Democrats"? You? Tarheel_Dem Dec 2013 #231

Yeah, I get it. Aerows Dec 2013 #232

Aerows has a mad. I'm crushed, but I'll try & pick up the pieces and move on. Thanks for stop'n by! Tarheel_Dem Dec 2013 #236

Aerows had a LOL :) Aerows Dec 2013 #237

No, just Democrats who think their main job is to avoid upsetting the Republicans Lydia Leftcoast Dec 2013 #226

Excellent post Aerows Dec 2013 #229

Excellent post, thanks. If the Democratic Party doesn't stand for something .... Scuba Dec 2013 #8

Now that's a platform that reflects my values..... think Dec 2013 #21

I bailed on Obama in '12 in red-red TX. The DEMS no longer represent my Values. blkmusclmachine Dec 2013 #124

corporate network news openfield Dec 2013 #9

That is the gist of my post.... madfloridian Dec 2013 #15

Eventually... kentuck Dec 2013 #10

Ding, ding, ding. We have a winner. Scuba Dec 2013 #16

Hey, Kentuck! Fucking a' ditty big! Bohunk68 Dec 2013 #152

if the Dems don't lose, how else can they blame their voters? MisterP Dec 2013 #207

Outtstanding.Thank you. abq e streeter Dec 2013 #13

Maybe CNN and the rest of the MSM ProSense Dec 2013 #14

Exactly. treestar Dec 2013 #32

It's unfortunate the Malleable Middle is so easily swayed... WorseBeforeBetter Dec 2013 #175

i do not trust cnn any further than i can throw their building. spanone Dec 2013 #55

Yep, Andy823 Dec 2013 #57

Political mass media exists to sell conservative politics. sulphurdunn Dec 2013 #60

Off topic but here's some local scripting for you: "It's Ok. You can admit it" think Dec 2013 #70

All of those charts shouldn't stop the DC Dems from energizing their voters Doctor_J Dec 2013 #99

It's always ProSense Dec 2013 #166

Rachel Maddow has been suggesting an idea since 2010 that might be worth a try think Dec 2013 #18

Minimum wage sounds like a good issue that will motivate a lot of voters (nt) reACTIONary Dec 2013 #113

Not just minimum wage, but run a campaign on all POPULAR programs. Dawgs Dec 2013 #176

in 1994 AND 2010, the 'pugs won by firing up their base. Dems lost by triangulating. Ken Burch Dec 2013 #22

"Centrism" is the political equivalent of apologizing for your beliefs. A give-away to our enemies.. blkmusclmachine Dec 2013 #125

If the troops aren't motivated, bvar22 Dec 2013 #23

Yes, well Truman lost control of congress too... Blanks Dec 2013 #200

Vote for your candidate in the Primaries but Cryptoad Dec 2013 #24

That's where I'm at. Working for the liberal candidates in the primaries mountain grammy Dec 2013 #64

I've done that for many years, but will no longer vote for Third Way candidates. polichick Dec 2013 #98

+1. Been there, done that. Never works. blkmusclmachine Dec 2013 #126

I'll not vote for corporate dems again fascisthunter Dec 2013 #191

Nope. Le Taz Hot Dec 2013 #240

Not me,,,I am a proud member of the Democratic Party! Cryptoad Dec 2013 #243

Well, thankfully the Creator gave me a working brain. Le Taz Hot Dec 2013 #244

Thats what the Tea Party says too.... nt Cryptoad Dec 2013 #245

Here's the thing with elections (midterms specifically): bobclark86 Dec 2013 #26

+1 (nt) reACTIONary Dec 2013 #114

While I am an unwilling transplant to Florida, HockeyMom Dec 2013 #28

If Scott wins again we are doomed. madfloridian Dec 2013 #29

He should be rotting in one of his private prisons enjoying "food" from private caterers. mountain grammy Dec 2013 #66

Go, GOP-lite, cuz the DEMS can't run a viable campaign in FL or TX any more. blkmusclmachine Dec 2013 #127

Why are the purists always trying to boss us around? treestar Dec 2013 #30

Explain what a "purist" is, please. What issues do they pursue that you disagree with? nm rhett o rick Dec 2013 #63

Stick with that attitude. You and the president might get the number into the teens Doctor_J Dec 2013 #100

So if 'they' are purist Democrats, and you are not, then you are a diluted Democrat? Bluenorthwest Dec 2013 #155

Because the purists got results... WorseBeforeBetter Dec 2013 #179

I'm not seeing the connection treestar Dec 2013 #213

Fear of right-wing control is paralyzing Democrats into standing for nothing. kentuck Dec 2013 #34

+1. The DEMS aren't "scared." They're BOUGHT. They're just not supposed to let everyone in on that blkmusclmachine Dec 2013 #128

Recommended X 1000! Enthusiast Dec 2013 #35

I just don't think the current DEM Party is "into" us that much. blkmusclmachine Dec 2013 #129

I guess not. Enthusiast Dec 2013 #137

Here's a thought SCVDem Dec 2013 #37

Nothing to vote FOR; our party has no direction or plan for anything but helping the 1%. nt Demo_Chris Dec 2013 #38

Ironically, the ones who accuse us of being "purists" demand we toe the party line. Tierra_y_Libertad Dec 2013 #40

+1000 Douglas Carpenter Dec 2013 #42

Apparently, ProSense Dec 2013 #49

Any dem who doesn't vote should be slapped Indyfan53 Dec 2013 #41

At that rate.. Roci Dec 2013 #43

The DC DEMS are on auto-pilot. 1830, here we come! blkmusclmachine Dec 2013 #130

We need to increase turnout for midterm elections Gothmog Dec 2013 #46

Questioning policy good. Drawing lines & purity tests & circular firing squads is bad. Bernardo de La Paz Dec 2013 #48

We had a Democratic nominee who only agreed with 51% of normal Democratic values in 1992 Ken Burch Dec 2013 #50

So? Bush agreed with ~ 90% of Repub values in 2000. See what damage that did to their party. nt Bernardo de La Paz Dec 2013 #54

+10 (nt) reACTIONary Dec 2013 #116

The people we are given to vote for do not intend to legislate anything like what the Dems djean111 Dec 2013 #163

I watched CSpan this morning Washington Journal zeemike Dec 2013 #53

What if it is the nominated Dems' role to PREVENT substantial opposition to the conservative agenda? HomerRamone Dec 2013 #59

I'm not extremely or very enthusiastic about voting in 2014, but you can bet that I will! MNBrewer Dec 2013 #65

what percent voted in 2010? and could it be GOP is just as disinterested if not more so? Pretzel_Warrior Dec 2013 #67

Hell yeah! Maybe next time Nader will carry Florida! 11 Bravo Dec 2013 #68

Nailed it on Duncan and seniors is important, the two sellout issues Dems HAVE to stand up ancianita Dec 2013 #69

Not voting is not unenthusiastic Turbineguy Dec 2013 #71

Mad, these folks aren't generally the pragmatists they claim, they are fundamentalist ideologues TheKentuckian Dec 2013 #72

Very well said. djean111 Dec 2013 #162

This is scary. NT tiredtoo Dec 2013 #74

When I see marriage equality moving forward Curmudgeoness Dec 2013 #75

"People are ready for liberals and liberal ideas." madfloridian Dec 2013 #80

So why can't we sell that to the people running the party??? Curmudgeoness Dec 2013 #82

We are not rich enough. madfloridian Dec 2013 #87

But, damn it, we're smart enough. Curmudgeoness Dec 2013 #88

lol madfloridian Dec 2013 #109

"People are ready for liberals and liberal ideas." blkmusclmachine Dec 2013 #131

People need to realize that pragmatism is for politicians and bureaucrats... YoungDemCA Dec 2013 #77

"Who the @$!# else ya gonna vote for, chumps?!" isn't polling MannyGoldstein Dec 2013 #78

Yep, who ya gonna vote for. Curmudgeoness Dec 2013 #90

Hell, our so-called DC DEMS can't even be bothered to fix the black box vote changers. blkmusclmachine Dec 2013 #132

Yes...blame the Democrats. Not the people who sit out... Drunken Irishman Dec 2013 #81

Yeah, if your restaurant is failing, blame the people who refuse to eat there, Lydia Leftcoast Dec 2013 #103

...... madfloridian Dec 2013 #111

So, who is failing? We've... reACTIONary Dec 2013 #119

More like deciding to starve because the only restaurant in town isn't to your liking. Drunken Irishman Dec 2013 #136

The food is awful Fumesucker Dec 2013 #138

Then don't eat and die. But don't cry when you're starving. Drunken Irishman Dec 2013 #141

Stop trying to pass shit on a shingle off as haute cusine and maybe people would be less cynical Fumesucker Dec 2013 #143

I don't think you're a simpleton. Stop with the simplistic logic. Drunken Irishman Dec 2013 #144

"You people", eh? Fumesucker Dec 2013 #146

"You people"? You know what, Drunken? My State had record breaking 2010 turnout Bluenorthwest Dec 2013 #158

The people we are given to vote for these days have no fucking intention of doing anything liberal, djean111 Dec 2013 #164

Which Circles Back fredamae Dec 2013 #168

Yup. djean111 Dec 2013 #169

And None of it is "Compromise" fredamae Dec 2013 #173

Then let the Dems campaign on doing things for those who are hurting economically Lydia Leftcoast Dec 2013 #180

Very good post. madfloridian Dec 2013 #199

Oh, I'll just eat at home. There is always a third choice, and it is not the Third Way. djean111 Dec 2013 #202

What about the people who are starving, anyway? winter is coming Dec 2013 #209

PERFECT reply! fascisthunter Dec 2013 #192

noby is buying what you are selling anymore fascisthunter Dec 2013 #193

the unions are`t going to quit madrchsod Dec 2013 #84

Kudos to your union, and best of luck. madfloridian Dec 2013 #101

There has to be a two-party system for a country to survive? 47of74 Dec 2013 #85

Markos at Daily Kos. "Daily Kos will not enable those who enable Third Way" madfloridian Dec 2013 #92

Thanks for posting. nt adirondacker Dec 2013 #97

I agree with him on that issue. madfloridian Dec 2013 #102

No argument from me. I was of this mindset back in 04. The party had total control in 08 and adirondacker Dec 2013 #104

Got a link to Mark Udall's enabling? joshcryer Dec 2013 #115

Yes, I do. madfloridian Dec 2013 #149

Dang, didn't know. Udall has been anti-surveillance. joshcryer Dec 2013 #150

I think I'd best describe him as having a bit of a libertarian streak anti partisan Dec 2013 #153

True that. joshcryer Dec 2013 #157

Kick And Recommend cantbeserious Dec 2013 #105

Democrats need to make their own enthusiasm. gulliver Dec 2013 #106

I did not whine, nor did I threaten not to vote. I posted an opinion. madfloridian Dec 2013 #107

If Republicans were smart enough, they would have invented "voter enthusiasm" gulliver Dec 2013 #178

Surely your argument isn't that enthusiastic support of those pushing these policies is going to end TheKentuckian Dec 2013 #151

You are right. That's not my argument. gulliver Dec 2013 #184

tempted to say you are nuts but I think you are being genuine so I'll leave it at counterintuitive TheKentuckian Dec 2013 #204

Do you think its intentional or planned...... Historic NY Dec 2013 #117

The threats to the safety nets and to public education are planned. madfloridian Dec 2013 #118

Let's stop fooling ourselves. The only "firm stances" our so-called DEMS take are all pre-cleared blkmusclmachine Dec 2013 #121

Pres @39%?? I'm hoping for change. Flippertygibbit Dec 2013 #135

Put a few torturers on trial and those voting numbers would double instantly Corruption Inc Dec 2013 #139

I am very sorry to say - but the vast overwhelming majority of Americans couldn't care less about Douglas Carpenter Dec 2013 #172

to be affective advocates for economic justice Democratic politicians and their operatives would Douglas Carpenter Dec 2013 #142

In other words, the "yuppie Democrats," the ones who say Lydia Leftcoast Dec 2013 #182

Thomas Frank said we have two libertarian/Reaganaut factions pushing for social freedom MisterP Dec 2013 #210

The Sensible Liberal's guide Ichingcarpenter Dec 2013 #145

I never recommend staying home on election day, exactly merrily Dec 2013 #148

The reverse to the OP is also true, don't say our candidates are not "Pure" enough. mikekohr Dec 2013 #154

You seem to think your statements are self-evident. I don't. merrily Dec 2013 #167

Clarity & Purpose are now confused with Purity. Eleanors38 Dec 2013 #159

Deliberately. To marginalise, minimize, and attempt to somehow shame into licking the same boot. djean111 Dec 2013 #165

Yes. madfloridian Dec 2013 #212

Begging Dems to support the safety nets, public education, help for unemployed.... madfloridian Dec 2013 #238

I lost my enthusiasm to vote a long time ago. avebury Dec 2013 #160

"Question" party stances? Silent3 Dec 2013 #161

It's a bit of a leap from "very or extremely enthusiastic" to "interested". riqster Dec 2013 #181

Do the math... HoosierCowboy Dec 2013 #183

Goodness, the vitriol in these responses. malthaussen Dec 2013 #185

Maybe purists need to get off their asses and Gman Dec 2013 #186

less than 22% of democrats live in contested districts paulkienitz Dec 2013 #187

I will be voting in 2014. bigwillq Dec 2013 #188

Are you "purists" or are you really "dreamers"? OKNancy Dec 2013 #195

I am neither. madfloridian Dec 2013 #197

Yes. And the candidates who are pushed on us are NEVER going to be liberal. Ever. djean111 Dec 2013 #201

It's certain that you won't get a lot of votes in Oklahoma running on gay marriage, but... Lydia Leftcoast Dec 2013 #221

as I said in the post... OKNancy Dec 2013 #225

How about stopping the waste in the Pentagon? Aerows Dec 2013 #233

We know we are going to get the candidates of the 1% pushed on us harun Dec 2013 #196

I suspect the remaining 78% do not want to express an opinion randr Dec 2013 #206

The definition of insanity Aerows Dec 2013 #214

I think we need to hear some Democrats Aerows Dec 2013 #223

Yes, and tracking down that $1.2 TRILLION that even Dick Cheney Lydia Leftcoast Dec 2013 #227

If that snake was willing to admit that $1.2 Trillion was missing Aerows Dec 2013 #230

Many that I know are feeling more and more R=D=I, none are really for RKP5637 Dec 2013 #228

Which is where failure to lead comes in Aerows Dec 2013 #234

Who defends the working class in this country? workinclasszero Dec 2013 #235

K&R. El_Johns Dec 2013 #239

First, it's corporate SHIT polling. Next, polls mean LITTLE right now. Next, if "progressives" RBInMaine Dec 2013 #242