General Discussion

TreasonousBastard

(43,049 posts)

25. OK, but we're back to the solution...

Thu Dec 26, 2013, 08:56 PM

Dec 2013

and for that we need the reasons for the pay inequality.

If women are paid less for the same job, that's wrong and wasn't the Lilly Ledbetter Act dealing with it?

If women tend to work in positions that pay less-- why? Part time? Why?

If women choose jobs that let them take time off for family stuff, can we arrange things so that they can have better jobs that allow them that time? Subsidized day care or nanny services?

If there are a large number of women returning to the workforce after kids are grown, how do we accelerate their pay increases to catch up?

And what about the generation of women coming up who are outnumbering men in professional schools? They don't count?

See how this works. Just screaming that women make less than men means nothing unless you explain why and propose a solution.

And, yes, the tone of the title alone had the tone of a harangue. Rants always appear more like rants to readers than writers.

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You know the statement "Women own 60% of US wealth" is just MRA idiocy, right? [View all] Squinch Dec 2013 OP

Yes, it is. The trash is precisely where it belongs. PDJane Dec 2013 #1

How much wealth does Alice Walton have? hobbit709 Dec 2013 #2

A statistically atypical amount, one may hazard... LanternWaste Dec 2013 #7

Tis the Exception that makes the Rule. Tuesday Afternoon Dec 2013 #9

I don't know. How much does she have? Squinch Dec 2013 #10

The Walton family heirs have more wealth than the bottom 40% of the country. hobbit709 Dec 2013 #11

OK, then. Squinch Dec 2013 #12

She has an enormous amount, so do Bill Gates, Warren Buffet and the Koch Brothers Bjorn Against Dec 2013 #16

Don't confuse wealth and income. hobbit709 Dec 2013 #17

That is simply not true. n/t demmiblue Dec 2013 #20

Where did I confuse wealth and income? Bjorn Against Dec 2013 #22

Your assertion is disingenuous, chervilant Dec 2013 #110

About the same as her 3 brothers. jeff47 Dec 2013 #52

As of last year 14th richest in the world - TBF Dec 2013 #117

And only a few men control most of the wealth. hobbit709 Dec 2013 #118

Agree 100%. nt TBF Dec 2013 #119

And where I have been seeing the statement, it usually refers to the US. Squinch Dec 2013 #132

Christy (the wife) and Alice (the daughter) of Sam Walton TBF Dec 2013 #137

i saw today the 60% claim. here on du. nt seabeyond Dec 2013 #3

I see it here all the time! Squinch Dec 2013 #5

Would you believe 40%... TreasonousBastard Dec 2013 #4

From that link, I would believe that in 2004, 40% the group of Americans who Squinch Dec 2013 #8

True, but it doesn't mean they don't... TreasonousBastard Dec 2013 #13

The 77 cents figure is not a useless talking point to express outrage. It is from the US Census Squinch Dec 2013 #18

You weren't. But that happens all the time on DU kcr Dec 2013 #23

I guess I could try shrieking if it makes it more fun for people. But my throat is a little Squinch Dec 2013 #24

Shrieking harpy feminists. Curmudgeoness Dec 2013 #29

??? kcr Dec 2013 #32

I've seen that group. Curmudgeoness Dec 2013 #34

But I do think that the post you responded to was supporting the OP Squinch Dec 2013 #125

It does seem that way now. Curmudgeoness Dec 2013 #173

I think you are right. Squinch Dec 2013 #60

Your post was alerted on (2 - 4 to leave it). DLevine Dec 2013 #112

OK, but we're back to the solution... TreasonousBastard Dec 2013 #25

I believe that we were talking about the fallacy of the statement that 60% of American Squinch Dec 2013 #26

Lily Ledbetter does not mandate equal pay boston bean Dec 2013 #42

The equal pay act of 1963 is inadequate? lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #69

Obviously it is inadequate. boston bean Dec 2013 #113

0% Jeff- really? I know you used to float this 60% of wealth bullshit, so I'm bettyellen Dec 2013 #172

Your questions jogged my memory to an article from earlier this month NoOneMan Dec 2013 #63

Stop I insulting us by saying we make less seattledo Dec 2013 #38

This doesn't make much sense to me. Would you clarify? Squinch Dec 2013 #39

Yep, right into the trash treestar Dec 2013 #6

it's hilarious after I posted my reply about QEII, I saw your post above with graphic Pretzel_Warrior Dec 2013 #15

and then if you take The Queen of England out of the equation.... Pretzel_Warrior Dec 2013 #14

. Squinch Dec 2013 #19

Or perhaps if you take the Sultan of Brunei out of the equation intaglio Dec 2013 #106

This message was self-deleted by its author Squinch Dec 2013 #123

easy there hfojvt Dec 2013 #143

Lol. Pretzel_Warrior Dec 2013 #167

Yes. K&R Egalitarian Thug Dec 2013 #21

Yeah, the claim is bullshit. ancianita Dec 2013 #27

That second link shows that Squinch Dec 2013 #28

And that's in rich USA. Worldwide, the UN claims that women have only 5% of cash, 1% of property ancianita Dec 2013 #40

Oh, my God! That is stunning! Squinch Dec 2013 #41

The UN keeps the most sweeping data on how women lose the war men wage against them. ancianita Dec 2013 #46

Which doesn't really pertain to who controls what percent of wealth NoOneMan Dec 2013 #62

Yes, but really, that's what matters. kcr Dec 2013 #101

No, Im talking about everyone. All ordinary people. NoOneMan Dec 2013 #102

Okay. Then why does it matter if women "control 60% of the wealth" kcr Dec 2013 #103

I don't know. Do you think it matters? NoOneMan Dec 2013 #107

No, I don't really think it matters very much. kcr Dec 2013 #109

And I am seeing a few here that actually agree Squinch Dec 2013 #133

If the women marry men who make more than them, why do you assume that the Squinch Dec 2013 #126

I assume they both do equally because they do by law NoOneMan Dec 2013 #141

Exactly. They both do equally, so they cancel each other out. Squinch Dec 2013 #144

wealth <> income lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #72

Excellent post, Squinch. Curmudgeoness Dec 2013 #30

Thank you! Squinch Dec 2013 #31

I think THIS is the first time I have seen it. hfojvt Dec 2013 #33

excess single women paulkienitz Dec 2013 #36

that was my thought too hfojvt Dec 2013 #54

Can you provide the source for this? I don't understand the Squinch Dec 2013 #37

I added a link for the 2011 census of wealth hfojvt Dec 2013 #44

So we'll have to use your 2002 numbers so we are both talking about the same thing. Squinch Dec 2013 #53

not sure what you mean by categories hfojvt Dec 2013 #65

By categories, I mean the breakdowns into for example "below zero and above 500000" Squinch Dec 2013 #124

probably these questions would be resolved hfojvt Dec 2013 #142

As you say, for a discussion I think we would both need access to the source. Squinch Dec 2013 #146

well the link to 2011 has the same categories hfojvt Dec 2013 #152

OK, looking at the fourth link you referred me to, if we assume, as has been posited in this thread Squinch Dec 2013 #156

the medians are in table 1 hfojvt Dec 2013 #158

But it also shows that 19% of men over 65 are own more than 500,000, compared to 11% Squinch Dec 2013 #163

I see your update, but before I go and look at those numbers, let me Squinch Dec 2013 #47

"Cancel each other out???" lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #71

+100 n/t lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #70

I think this deserves its own post: you misread the data in coming up with your 55.6% number. Squinch Dec 2013 #175

funny thing... I heard similar claims even back in the eighties! paulkienitz Dec 2013 #35

I found it as far back as 2002 on the net. In the MRA thread Squinch Dec 2013 #134

That's a bingo! nt MrScorpio Dec 2013 #43

Most Women outlive their Hubbies....... nt Cryptoad Dec 2013 #45

Women do live longer on average. Is there more that you wanted to say about that? Squinch Dec 2013 #48

No not really,,,, just one of the facts that skews the data ,,,nt Cryptoad Dec 2013 #50

In what way? And what data are we talking about? The point Squinch Dec 2013 #55

Data on wealth of any kind is hard to come by Cryptoad Dec 2013 #58

So are you saying that wealth controlled by widows doesn't count? lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #67

Where is the backup to support your claim that wealth of widows is large enough to make kcr Dec 2013 #74

Posts 33 and 59 for starters. lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #75

Okay, what am I missing? kcr Dec 2013 #76

Post 33 uses wealth data from the census... lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #77

In other words, it doesn't back up your claim n/t kcr Dec 2013 #78

See post labeled "OP"? See the name next to it? lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #79

The earth is round. Gravity exists. The sun rises because the earth rotates. kcr Dec 2013 #80

The OP made a simple claim. lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #82

She made a claim that is correct kcr Dec 2013 #86

I've posted lots of *evidence*. lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #87

Nothing you've posted backs it up kcr Dec 2013 #90

One of my favorite links on the topic lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #93

Hmm. Donna Rasile, wealth manager kcr Dec 2013 #97

And if you read hfojvt's post you will see he makes a large number of unsuported assumptions intaglio Dec 2013 #108

If so, conversely, there's no data backing up your counterclaim. lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #66

And if they have sons, when they die 5 -10 years later at the age of 70-80 it goes to sons... boston bean Dec 2013 #114

they didn't earn it themselves treestar Dec 2013 #84

yeah, when speaking of earning potential, we don't usually include inheritances. boston bean Dec 2013 #115

But I think the point holds even when you include those women who Squinch Dec 2013 #129

If they inherit, they are still in control of it I suppose treestar Dec 2013 #139

That is a valid point madville Dec 2013 #127

Most of the sources that seemed to be thinking about actual wealth, though, and not Squinch Dec 2013 #136

EVERYTHING the mra's say is idiocy. niyad Dec 2013 #49

+1 redqueen Dec 2013 #68

And 73.6% of all statistics are made up on the spot. alp227 Dec 2013 #51

No, seriously? Squinch Dec 2013 #56

"MRA idiocy" is redundant. LeftyMom Dec 2013 #57

A) Then Ann Romney is penniless? B) The power of money is in spending it, not earning it. lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #59

If they inherited it from husbands, it should not count treestar Dec 2013 #83

So Christy Walton doesn't control any wealth? lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #85

What percent of wealth do women actually own? NoOneMan Dec 2013 #61

Whoa... are you saying you've seen MRA talking points on DU?! redqueen Dec 2013 #64

... and math too!!!! lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #73

Unbelievably, I have! Squinch Dec 2013 #138

You're right. Vashta Nerada Dec 2013 #81

Those poor wives. lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #88

What is the point of your post? Vashta Nerada Dec 2013 #89

Truly? lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #92

I'm pretty sure Liz Koch isn't listed with her husband for a reason. Vashta Nerada Dec 2013 #157

Recognizing this list of men as sole controllers just panders to the patriarchial norm NoOneMan Dec 2013 #96

It seems only one person in this thread is saying that. kcr Dec 2013 #99

Yep. And even if you keep scrolling down the list, the overwhelming majority are men n/t kcr Dec 2013 #91

I think Feminism is just too difficult for the average person to understand. Notafraidtoo Dec 2013 #94

It goes back to a Virginia Tech study back in 2011 according to this... davidn3600 Dec 2013 #95

I wonder if that's where yahoo.answers got it n/t kcr Dec 2013 #98

That doesn't look like an MRA talking point NoOneMan Dec 2013 #100

It is confusing. kcr Dec 2013 #104

I think the Dept. of Education is the source for only the first bullet point. Nine Dec 2013 #116

Okay, that makes sense kcr Dec 2013 #120

Very well said. Squinch Dec 2013 #166

It wasn't really VATech saying it. It was the marketing company "MarketingZeus" Squinch Dec 2013 #122

This message was self-deleted by its author kcr Dec 2013 #104

VA Tech didn't create this. MarketingZeus did, and used that wording in Squinch Dec 2013 #121

Excellent post cinnabonbon Dec 2013 #111

"...they're (women) earning less working the exact same jobs." etherealtruth Dec 2013 #128

+1 Squinch Dec 2013 #130

I was at a job for three years and accidentally found out that a single, just out of college male boston bean Dec 2013 #131

I had that experience, as well etherealtruth Dec 2013 #135

Same thing happened to me except xulamaude Dec 2013 #159

Guess I'm frequenting all the right corners of the intertubes TroglodyteScholar Dec 2013 #140

If most women do not control the wealth and more men than women do, boston bean Dec 2013 #145

But I haven't found anything to support that Squinch Dec 2013 #147

I agree, I was just trying to show how they try to make it seem valid. boston bean Dec 2013 #149

Yes, that is an interesting addition: Squinch Dec 2013 #150

Yes, and it is done to confuse the issue and make it seem like there is no disparity. boston bean Dec 2013 #154

By design etherealtruth Dec 2013 #148

Though I still don't see any sources Squinch Dec 2013 #151

I haven't either etherealtruth Dec 2013 #153

They get away with saying that because anti-women bigotry is normalized here on DU. Starry Messenger Dec 2013 #155

won't get any disagreement from me on that point! boston bean Dec 2013 #162

Nice to see you too, BB! Starry Messenger Dec 2013 #164

Even if it was true... Iggo Dec 2013 #160

This is very true. Squinch Dec 2013 #161

What is an "MRA"? snot Dec 2013 #165

Acronym for a group called Men's Rights Activists. GeorgeGist Dec 2013 #170

Who buys the politicians? GeorgeGist Dec 2013 #168

Supporting links here: Egalitarian Thug Dec 2013 #169

Thank you! Good find by Cerridwen. Squinch Dec 2013 #171

Forbes says it comes from US News and World report data Major Nikon Dec 2013 #174