General Discussion

treestar

(82,383 posts)

76. May well be

Fri Dec 27, 2013, 06:06 PM

Dec 2013

If it was known that we didn't do anything to protect ourselves, you really think all those other countries are so peaceful they'd leave us alone? We are a lot safer than we would be without it. It's one thing to complain about overreach but the idea we could do nothing at all is just as extreme as the most authoritarian Cheney like theories you can find.

We don't know what harm Snowden did, but the NSA hasn't done any that anyone can point to. And their activities could have protected a lot of us. Hell when something happens, the media and others are all over the government for not having prevented it, that is, not having found out about a criminal terrorist plot beforehand. The perpetrators of those don't put their plans in the news. So now they're supposed to prevent it all without any national security agency or CIA?

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Stanford Researchers: It Is Trivially Easy to Match Metadata to Real People [View all] xchrom Dec 2013 OP

The only security TPTB are interested in is their own continued control. hobbit709 Dec 2013 #1

k/r marmar Dec 2013 #2

That is not the question nor is it an apt comparison. I can do that too. Anyone can. stevenleser Dec 2013 #3

That's where data-mining programs come in starroute Dec 2013 #4

Which is exactly why this concern about blanket surveillance is nonsense. stevenleser Dec 2013 #5

And that is where the unified law enforcement comes in. zeemike Dec 2013 #13

I find your argument ridiculous dreamnightwind Dec 2013 #42

You are so wrong. Enthusiast Dec 2013 #53

You're no friend of the US Constitution DisgustipatedinCA Dec 2013 #70

That's almost as bad as saying Duer 157099 Dec 2013 #73

There was a time when people, even intelligent ones, thought that it would be impossible to Duer 157099 Dec 2013 #74

Now factor in the ever expanding and increasingly rediculous definitions of "terrorism" LeftyMom Dec 2013 #95

Absurd. treestar Dec 2013 #19

They do target the people they believe are organizers starroute Dec 2013 #23

And yet they could file lawsuits in protest treestar Dec 2013 #30

Many of the arrests worked like this: LeftyMom Dec 2013 #97

Yet no one thought to use video for evidence? randome Dec 2013 #98

They did. Many charges were dismissed that way. LeftyMom Dec 2013 #99

and hence Caretha Dec 2013 #6

And hence, you build a straw man and beat it to death. Right? nt stevenleser Dec 2013 #8

Yes you do Savannahmann Dec 2013 #10

That is not what strawman means. nt stevenleser Dec 2013 #11

Piffle Caretha Dec 2013 #15

But you do have the time to target a person and find stuff on him/her that you can use freedom fighter jh Dec 2013 #7

Any hacker can do that. Even a fairly untalented one. And you don't need to vacuum up tons of data stevenleser Dec 2013 #9

"Any hacker can do that." freedom fighter jh Dec 2013 #12

Exactly. n/t JimDandy Dec 2013 #14

^^strawman argument^^ Caretha Dec 2013 #18

What kind of argument is that? Marr Dec 2013 #57

Someone running for office trying to get dirt on the other treestar Dec 2013 #17

It isn't the agents; it's the folks who run the place. freedom fighter jh Dec 2013 #22

How is that going to work? treestar Dec 2013 #27

Not much danger of the cowed person getting anywhere with the media or the courts freedom fighter jh Dec 2013 #32

Anyone can get the ear of the media treestar Dec 2013 #49

Are you joking? How would anyone even know they were being targeted? Th1onein Dec 2013 #51

It would have to come out sometime, wouldn't it, or what would be the point treestar Dec 2013 #63

No it need never come out that a person is targeted. riderinthestorm Dec 2013 #67

Treestar, have you heard of the SOD? Th1onein Dec 2013 #79

I don't know what I would do. freedom fighter jh Dec 2013 #59

But you know about them treestar Dec 2013 #64

It's from the alternative media that I know their names. freedom fighter jh Dec 2013 #69

And I would bet you are not even trying to find treestar Dec 2013 #75

Why should I try to find information to support your argument? freedom fighter jh Dec 2013 #77

ROFLMFAO Caretha Dec 2013 #34

Zero substance you have there treestar Dec 2013 #50

If that's the best you can do, you certainly arent very imaginative. I can think of a dozen ways rhett o rick Dec 2013 #45

I don't understand why you defend this. Why do they need all that data in the first place? El_Johns Dec 2013 #80

The answer is yes. Gormy Cuss Dec 2013 #29

Strawman. Of course they dont have time nor inclination to check up on everyone. That's a rhett o rick Dec 2013 #44

+100. And if they don't have "time" now, they'll have the compute time later, when machines get even nilram Dec 2013 #54

+1 Marr Dec 2013 #56

Wait-- so now your argument is not that the data is anonymous, but simply that Marr Dec 2013 #55

I think you've got it. One characteristic of conservatives is that they have FAITH in their rhett o rick Dec 2013 #60

K & R Thinkingabout Dec 2013 #68

LOL, so it is your argument that the NSA having the data is no different than the... Logical Dec 2013 #86

You should explain the difference if you truly believe there is a difference. Thinkingabout Dec 2013 #91

Easy. Very easy. RC Dec 2013 #101

Where is the probable cause, that would be the easiest question to answer, the US has had Thinkingabout Dec 2013 #102

You really are a disappointment on this topic. And clueless! nt Logical Dec 2013 #85

Is your argument that they are overwhelmed by too much data? LiberalAndProud Dec 2013 #89

holy f*ck fascisthunter Dec 2013 #96

I would hope so, if they really see a pattern treestar Dec 2013 #16

One more who thinks it's A-Ok Caretha Dec 2013 #20

Are you implying something? treestar Dec 2013 #21

Wasn't implying anything Caretha Dec 2013 #24

Should Those That Support The Desecration Of The 4th Amendment Be Trusted cantbeserious Dec 2013 #25

You are under the assumption that the NSA is working for you. That most likely isnt the case. rhett o rick Dec 2013 #46

You are authoritarian scum PowerToThePeople Dec 2013 #26

But you didn't answer my post treestar Dec 2013 #28

Yes, I answered your post PowerToThePeople Dec 2013 #33

Americans used to be better than this DisgustipatedinCA Dec 2013 #31

They are not spying on every citizen treestar Dec 2013 #61

This entire idea of them wanting to check on every person is a distraction. Th1onein Dec 2013 #52

Who would be worth targeting? treestar Dec 2013 #62

They have already been targeting protesters. Th1onein Dec 2013 #81

For what? treestar Dec 2013 #82

First of all, you do your argument no good by calling Snowden "Snowjob." Th1onein Dec 2013 #83

You drop the old excuse but continue defending the policy. Marr Dec 2013 #58

Thinking the distinction is silly is silly. gulliver Dec 2013 #35

Maybe radioactive substances should not be controlled, freedom fighter jh Dec 2013 #40

I can't tell if people that defend this as being irrelevant Aerows Dec 2013 #36

I'm more worried about how this info will be used against public officials than about freedom fighter jh Dec 2013 #41

If, according to some, it's so harmless and benign, why did they keep it secret? Tierra_y_Libertad Dec 2013 #37

Anyone defending this Aerows Dec 2013 #38

Because Snowden violated the law treestar Dec 2013 #65

So, what has all this spying done for us? Tierra_y_Libertad Dec 2013 #72

May well be treestar Dec 2013 #76

K & R !!! WillyT Dec 2013 #39

Oh no, a phalanx of DU computer experts has assured us that this cannot be done, Egalitarian Thug Dec 2013 #43

If it's useless for catching people then why do they need it to catch bad guys? nt rrneck Dec 2013 #47

What business is it of the government to collect all this metadata about American citizens? neverforget Dec 2013 #48

So they can track co-conspirators after an attack. randome Dec 2013 #66

So I'm a co-conspirator? Otherwise why would they collect my data? neverforget Dec 2013 #78

Because without it, they would need to go hat-in-hand to every telecom in the country. randome Dec 2013 #84

BS, They could get the data almost immediately when needed! nt Logical Dec 2013 #88

How? randome Dec 2013 #90

Law enforcement agencies must comply with the 4th Amendment to the Constitution. neverforget Dec 2013 #93

Where have you been for the past 6 months? randome Dec 2013 #94

Apparently you believe that Smith v Maryland allows the NSA to scoop up all the data of Americans. neverforget Dec 2013 #100

LOL, they got you believing that shit? nt Logical Dec 2013 #87

No kidding. "Please protect me, daddy!". Marr Dec 2013 #92

Some people rather believe in some order Harmony Blue Dec 2013 #103

Perhaps all posting here should realize information can be acquired from blogs, you can Thinkingabout Dec 2013 #71

Highly recommend. n/t Jefferson23 Dec 2013 #104