General Discussion

Pholus

(4,062 posts)

119. You've noticed the intent has never been to have a fair discussion.

Sat Dec 28, 2013, 08:56 AM

Dec 2013

It has been to shove a narrative down our throats about all this.

If Snowden and Greenwald are not literally flawless in thought word and deed, then anything they say must be dismissed without examination.

That's always struck me as being a desperate angle to try to control the debate without having to give credence to the specifics. That's because the specifics are literally indefensible.

Just remember though, "Sciencia est potentia" doesn't say crap about Terra being the only motivator to make sure that every citizen in this country has a docket that looks like a permanent government stooge walks 3 feet behind them at all times. The only thing missing are the little jars with our scents....and biometrics is getting a LOT of money these days to make them unnecessary.

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Greenwaldian physics [View all] Pretzel_Warrior Dec 2013 OP

Ben Franklin was a traitor! MannyGoldstein Dec 2013 #1

there is so much to be admired about how Ben Franklin handled it that it puts Snowden/Greenwald Pretzel_Warrior Dec 2013 #2

not to mention iamthebandfanman Dec 2013 #49

thanks for adding that Pretzel_Warrior Dec 2013 #51

I posted this just above your post. JDPriestly Dec 2013 #60

Ben Franklin didn't flee the scene and ask to be held unaccountable for his decisions Pretzel_Warrior Dec 2013 #64

I disagree. JDPriestly Dec 2013 #82

+1 nt Progressive dog Dec 2013 #121

Funny, he didn't exactly present himself to the British for prosecution either. Pholus Dec 2013 #126

those who criticize Snowden are sycophants? treestar Dec 2013 #128

+ a gazillion. nt Mojorabbit Dec 2013 #141

He was not an American. The United States and America did not yet exist. JDPriestly Dec 2013 #57

he was an American in the sense tha the colonies had limited self-rule Pretzel_Warrior Dec 2013 #61

He was a British citizen who owed his loyalty, his fealty to the British King. JDPriestly Dec 2013 #66

you mean the German-English king? who was a bit mad? Pretzel_Warrior Dec 2013 #69

But he was the king. JDPriestly Dec 2013 #81

So what? truebluegreen Dec 2013 #137

Founding Fathers admitted they could be hung as traitors treestar Dec 2013 #129

And why should he? anti partisan Dec 2013 #134

Because he has been charged with the crime treestar Dec 2013 #135

Sidestepping the issue of morality completely anti partisan Dec 2013 #138

Well he was, to Britain treestar Dec 2013 #127

The link at the bottom is actually interesting. Pholus Dec 2013 #3

agreed about the link being a good one. I'll be referring to that site more often Pretzel_Warrior Dec 2013 #5

Other newspapers and news magazines including the Washington Post, the NY Times JDPriestly Dec 2013 #74

Yes, and they went about it in more upright ways with informants Pretzel_Warrior Dec 2013 #78

As I understand it, Snowden tried to connect with people besides or before Greenwald JDPriestly Dec 2013 #70

that's one mythology in circulation Pretzel_Warrior Dec 2013 #83

Funny what is considered hard fact Hissyspit Dec 2013 #106

that was many months after Snowden's first contact with Greenwald Pretzel_Warrior Dec 2013 #107

Yeah, I know. Poster said "contact people besides ... Greenwald." Hissyspit Dec 2013 #109

You've noticed the intent has never been to have a fair discussion. Pholus Dec 2013 #119

Thanks. JDPriestly Dec 2013 #120

It is a corruption of what supposedly the strength of America was. Pholus Dec 2013 #123

Wouldn't it be nice Aerows Dec 2013 #4

Greenwald is a libertarian. That's why he spoke at the CATO institute Cali_Democrat Dec 2013 #8

You can tell a libertarian neighborhood by how shitty their streets are Pretzel_Warrior Dec 2013 #9

Ironic how some people are so inclined to bash Greenwald... anti partisan Dec 2013 #12

he's clearly a libertarian. I'm sorry you cannot see that. Pretzel_Warrior Dec 2013 #20

Greenwald is NOT a libertarian. Why do people keep spreading disinformation? anti partisan Dec 2013 #11

It's been refuted a million times, but foaming haters are impervious to fact n/t whatchamacallit Dec 2013 #14

Perhaps you're right. Greenwald isn't a libertarian, he's a republican Cali_Democrat Dec 2013 #22

More slander? anti partisan Dec 2013 #28

Your deliberate misinformation has been successfully refuted multiple times in the past. Maedhros Dec 2013 #55

Greenwald is one of the best journalists we have in this country right now. While he was trashing sabrina 1 Dec 2013 #71

Great points! anti partisan Dec 2013 #87

... SidDithers Dec 2013 #90

+1000 U4ikLefty Dec 2013 #93

Plenty of Democrats have spoke at CATO. But you already knew that. Luminous Animal Dec 2013 #26

Did they write white paper for them? Go to the donor's benefit dinner? Greenwald did. nt msanthrope Dec 2013 #139

Bullshit. Hissyspit Dec 2013 #95

So did Ron Wyden. WorseBeforeBetter Dec 2013 #124

That doesn't negate my point Aerows Dec 2013 #142

Another flaming bag on the doorstep whatchamacallit Dec 2013 #6

try reading the article link Pretzel_Warrior Dec 2013 #7

No. I agree. That the flaming bag happens to contain... Pholus Dec 2013 #10

DU rec... SidDithers Dec 2013 #13

The 'right' people are pissed off enough at Greenwald that they sabrina 1 Dec 2013 #130

Too funny... SidDithers Dec 2013 #131

It would be funny if it wasn't actually happening anti partisan Dec 2013 #132

This message was self-deleted by its author delrem Dec 2013 #15

Freerepublic? (nt) anti partisan Dec 2013 #16

He's a Me-wing journalist Pretzel_Warrior Dec 2013 #17

Very informative post anti partisan Dec 2013 #18

I just like comedy. And Brian Regan as well as Glenn Greenwald are sheer comedy Pretzel_Warrior Dec 2013 #19

This message was self-deleted by its author delrem Dec 2013 #21

it's not a slang. I'm a progressive in EVERY SINGLE test I take on the issue. the point is... Pretzel_Warrior Dec 2013 #24

This message was self-deleted by its author delrem Dec 2013 #41

make a substantive argument somewhere. anywwhere on this thread.. Pretzel_Warrior Dec 2013 #44

Don't try to kill the messenger. JDPriestly Dec 2013 #76

I'm trying to expose a charlatan Pretzel_Warrior Dec 2013 #79

In what sense do you think he is a "shape shifter"? JDPriestly Dec 2013 #80

Ah, the same wing as you, then. Union Scribe Dec 2013 #91

because you only notice those. I post on many subjects Pretzel_Warrior Dec 2013 #94

Left wing journalist? Cali_Democrat Dec 2013 #23

This message was self-deleted by its author delrem Dec 2013 #27

Greenwald had his lips planted firmly on GWB's behind Cali_Democrat Dec 2013 #31

This message was self-deleted by its author delrem Dec 2013 #33

Yes Indeed. Lets ignore the 3 books her wrote criticizing GWB's behind. Luminous Animal Dec 2013 #111

In his career as a journalist anti partisan Dec 2013 #30

He's a libertarian, which is not compatible with being a "left wing journalist." pnwmom Dec 2013 #34

GG supports far-right beliefs like single payer healthcare and massively increased social spending anti partisan Dec 2013 #40

How many other writers from the libertarian Cato Institute do you follow? pnwmom Dec 2013 #45

He's not FROM the libertarian CATO Institute anti partisan Dec 2013 #50

nowhere does Greenwald actually say he supports single payer Pretzel_Warrior Dec 2013 #47

Are you really being serious? (nt) anti partisan Dec 2013 #62

Libertarians are NOT left wing or progressive. pnwmom Dec 2013 #32

As Glenn Greenwald is demonstrably not a libertarian, whom are you referring to? (nt) anti partisan Dec 2013 #35

He's demonstrably a journalist who writes for the libertarian Cato Institute. n/t pnwmom Dec 2013 #38

Have you read what he has written for the CATO institute? anti partisan Dec 2013 #46

you mean he's a lawyer who decided to write fiction like John Grisham. Pretzel_Warrior Dec 2013 #88

I actually find his article quite factual, as it is based in facts. (nt) anti partisan Dec 2013 #92

This message was self-deleted by its author delrem Dec 2013 #37

He's a journalist who writes for the libertarian Cato Institute. n/t pnwmom Dec 2013 #39

The stance he took in his article for the CATO institute would be considered left-wing anti partisan Dec 2013 #48

Libertarians are a weird combination of left and right wing beliefs. pnwmom Dec 2013 #73

I know what a libertarian is, but Glenn Greenwald is not one. anti partisan Dec 2013 #84

He's accepted their dirty money and lent his name and reputation to them. n/t pnwmom Dec 2013 #86

I'd do the same as Glenn had. It's about supporting a single cause, not the think tank. anti partisan Dec 2013 #89

undoubtedly that's why he performed at their donor's benefit gathering and defended Citizens United Pretzel_Warrior Dec 2013 #105

More misleading slander anti partisan Dec 2013 #112

My my.. you're getting them flustered! Cha Dec 2013 #63

If a wacky letter to the editor is all you got, you ain't got nothing at all (nt) anti partisan Dec 2013 #68

Playing "gotcha" with a letter from some nitwit who doesn't understand what a civil libertarian is TheKentuckian Dec 2013 #143

OMG how dare you say something nasty about Greenwald davidpdx Dec 2013 #25

lol. yeah. it's weird all the low count posters here on this thread. Pretzel_Warrior Dec 2013 #52

Newbies, surely...nt SidDithers Dec 2013 #75

You mean like.. Cha Dec 2013 #67

Nonsense. But you know that. Hissyspit Dec 2013 #97

I'm referring to those calling DUers shills for daring to criticize him davidpdx Dec 2013 #118

Though emoprogs profoundly lack a sense of humor... OilemFirchen Dec 2013 #122

More nonsense. Hissyspit Dec 2013 #140

This message was self-deleted by its author delrem Dec 2013 #29

So we're not the only ones(those of us on Cha Dec 2013 #36

thank you for your link as well. WOW! all I can say is.. Pretzel_Warrior Dec 2013 #42

Like I say.. Cha Dec 2013 #54

from your lips to the Voters' ears!! let's turn the country blue Pretzel_Warrior Dec 2013 #59

It's good to know that you accept a letter to the editor as fact at face value anti partisan Dec 2013 #43

This message was self-deleted by its author delrem Dec 2013 #53

''When exposing a crime is treated as committing a crime, you are ruled by criminals.'' ~Anon DeSwiss Dec 2013 #56

what crime was exposed? Pretzel_Warrior Dec 2013 #72

A crime that was recently ruled unconstitutional by a federal judge. PoliticalPothead Dec 2013 #101

federal judge ruled differently. and if it makes it to supreme court Pretzel_Warrior Dec 2013 #102

Kill the messenger...how original. nt U4ikLefty Dec 2013 #58

Exposing a charlatan. How original. Pretzel_Warrior Dec 2013 #65

charlatans tell lies (like the NSA and politicians) and whistlblowers expose uncomfotable truths. U4ikLefty Dec 2013 #85

Here's Greenwald speaking at the Socialism 2013 Conference in Chicago RufusTFirefly Dec 2013 #77

he spoke via skype from Brazil about the Snowden Affair Pretzel_Warrior Dec 2013 #96

What does him talking about marijuana at Cato have to do with anything? Hissyspit Dec 2013 #98

oh but he did so much more for Cato than that. Don't let Greenwald's own humility/deceit fool you Pretzel_Warrior Dec 2013 #104

I saw all that when it was first posted months and months ago. Hissyspit Dec 2013 #108

"ultra progressive extreme group like socialists" shaayecanaan Dec 2013 #99

I really hope you get paid for this. Marr Dec 2013 #100

I'm not getting paid for this. Pretzel_Warrior Dec 2013 #103

A very very very patient one LiberalLovinLug Dec 2013 #110

Ad Hominem Attacks - The Worst Of The Logical Fallacies cantbeserious Dec 2013 #113

I call it the Double Fallacy Attack anti partisan Dec 2013 #114

Best To Keep Calling Them Out - Other Members Might Catch On And End The Logical Non Sense cantbeserious Dec 2013 #115

You're a little unhinged tonight, spittle flying and everything. DisgustipatedinCA Dec 2013 #116

117 replies and only 8 thought it was worth Ichingcarpenter Dec 2013 #117

It's a thread whose only message is "I personally hate Glenn Greenwald" DisgustipatedinCA Dec 2013 #136

News is what somebody somewhere wants to suppress; all the rest is advertising. Lord Northcliffe Tierra_y_Libertad Dec 2013 #125

Alright, alright, you can be a simple-minded Manichean, too. WorseBeforeBetter Dec 2013 #133