Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News Editorials & Other Articles General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

General Discussion

In reply to the discussion: Greenwaldian physics [View all]

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
120. Thanks.
Sat Dec 28, 2013, 09:40 AM
Dec 2013

Seems that former STASI (East German surveillance police) are working at the STASI archives.

Some people never quit snooping.

The latest revelations also throw up uncomfortable questions for the German president, Joachim Gauck, who was the inaugural commissioner for the Stasi archives between 1990 and 2000. In his 1991 book The Stasi Files, Gauck had defended re-hiring old Stasi personnel: "We couldn't have done without their specialist knowledge of certain branches and the Stasi's archiving system." Originally hired on short-term contracts, Gauck had personally lobbied to make their jobs permanent in 1997.

Klaus Schroeder, a historian at Berlin's Free University who looked into the deployment of Stasi at the agency in 2007, told the Guardian: "Ultimately, the responsibility for giving these people uncontrolled access to high-profile files lies with Gauck."

Jahn, the current commissioner, also used his interview in Tagesspiegel to dismisses comparisons between the US National Security Agency and the Stasi: "I find it absurd to equate the NSA and the Stasi – it's a smokescreen. It doesn't help us in clearing up the current intelligence scandals, and it trivialises the work of the Stasi. They didn't just gather information but also lock up those who criticised the state. But the NSA debate has shown how important it is to raise your voice when basic human rights are being violated."

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/dec/27/stasi-officers-still-employed-east-german-secret-police-archives

The "my country right or wrong" or on DU the "my President right or wrong" mentality makes people feel very smug and self-righteous. Ignorant people with little experience are particularly susceptible to that philosophy ("my country right or wrong&quot . That is why it is very attractive to Republicans. They cannot imagine that their country could be taken over by someone or some group willing to oppress anyone who has a different religion, international friendships or family members in other countries or anyone who has ideas that simply differ from those of the group in power.

But that kind of political oppression is, over the course of history, arguably the norm. Democracy and tolerance are the exception.

That is why we cannot allow our country to amass so much information about us. It is extremely dangerous to mix this global information database and political power. Very dangerous. I can't understand how people can be so naive as to not understand the danger of it. The best theory I have come up with is that these naive people think that the situation of today, the democracy and freedom we have enjoyed until the past few years, will last forever. They do not see the temptation to grab power that is inherent in the possession of the vast database that the NSA is acquiring. It is chilling to me.

Does it take a little imagination to understand the dangers in this NSA surveillance and collection of our metadata? A tiny bit, but not much, not if you read any history at all or observe what is going on every day in areas of our planet.

I just hope that we Americans don't have to learn the lesson the East Germans learned with STASI.

Privacy is extremely important. You can't have democracy or freedom without it.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Greenwaldian physics [View all] Pretzel_Warrior Dec 2013 OP
Ben Franklin was a traitor! MannyGoldstein Dec 2013 #1
there is so much to be admired about how Ben Franklin handled it that it puts Snowden/Greenwald Pretzel_Warrior Dec 2013 #2
not to mention iamthebandfanman Dec 2013 #49
thanks for adding that Pretzel_Warrior Dec 2013 #51
I posted this just above your post. JDPriestly Dec 2013 #60
Ben Franklin didn't flee the scene and ask to be held unaccountable for his decisions Pretzel_Warrior Dec 2013 #64
I disagree. JDPriestly Dec 2013 #82
+1 nt Progressive dog Dec 2013 #121
Funny, he didn't exactly present himself to the British for prosecution either. Pholus Dec 2013 #126
those who criticize Snowden are sycophants? treestar Dec 2013 #128
+ a gazillion. nt Mojorabbit Dec 2013 #141
He was not an American. The United States and America did not yet exist. JDPriestly Dec 2013 #57
he was an American in the sense tha the colonies had limited self-rule Pretzel_Warrior Dec 2013 #61
He was a British citizen who owed his loyalty, his fealty to the British King. JDPriestly Dec 2013 #66
you mean the German-English king? who was a bit mad? Pretzel_Warrior Dec 2013 #69
But he was the king. JDPriestly Dec 2013 #81
So what? truebluegreen Dec 2013 #137
Founding Fathers admitted they could be hung as traitors treestar Dec 2013 #129
And why should he? anti partisan Dec 2013 #134
Because he has been charged with the crime treestar Dec 2013 #135
Sidestepping the issue of morality completely anti partisan Dec 2013 #138
Well he was, to Britain treestar Dec 2013 #127
The link at the bottom is actually interesting. Pholus Dec 2013 #3
agreed about the link being a good one. I'll be referring to that site more often Pretzel_Warrior Dec 2013 #5
Other newspapers and news magazines including the Washington Post, the NY Times JDPriestly Dec 2013 #74
Yes, and they went about it in more upright ways with informants Pretzel_Warrior Dec 2013 #78
As I understand it, Snowden tried to connect with people besides or before Greenwald JDPriestly Dec 2013 #70
that's one mythology in circulation Pretzel_Warrior Dec 2013 #83
Funny what is considered hard fact Hissyspit Dec 2013 #106
that was many months after Snowden's first contact with Greenwald Pretzel_Warrior Dec 2013 #107
Yeah, I know. Poster said "contact people besides ... Greenwald." Hissyspit Dec 2013 #109
You've noticed the intent has never been to have a fair discussion. Pholus Dec 2013 #119
Thanks. JDPriestly Dec 2013 #120
It is a corruption of what supposedly the strength of America was. Pholus Dec 2013 #123
Wouldn't it be nice Aerows Dec 2013 #4
Greenwald is a libertarian. That's why he spoke at the CATO institute Cali_Democrat Dec 2013 #8
You can tell a libertarian neighborhood by how shitty their streets are Pretzel_Warrior Dec 2013 #9
Ironic how some people are so inclined to bash Greenwald... anti partisan Dec 2013 #12
he's clearly a libertarian. I'm sorry you cannot see that. Pretzel_Warrior Dec 2013 #20
Greenwald is NOT a libertarian. Why do people keep spreading disinformation? anti partisan Dec 2013 #11
It's been refuted a million times, but foaming haters are impervious to fact n/t whatchamacallit Dec 2013 #14
Perhaps you're right. Greenwald isn't a libertarian, he's a republican Cali_Democrat Dec 2013 #22
More slander? anti partisan Dec 2013 #28
Your deliberate misinformation has been successfully refuted multiple times in the past. Maedhros Dec 2013 #55
Greenwald is one of the best journalists we have in this country right now. While he was trashing sabrina 1 Dec 2013 #71
Great points! anti partisan Dec 2013 #87
... SidDithers Dec 2013 #90
+1000 U4ikLefty Dec 2013 #93
Plenty of Democrats have spoke at CATO. But you already knew that. Luminous Animal Dec 2013 #26
Did they write white paper for them? Go to the donor's benefit dinner? Greenwald did. nt msanthrope Dec 2013 #139
Bullshit. Hissyspit Dec 2013 #95
So did Ron Wyden. WorseBeforeBetter Dec 2013 #124
That doesn't negate my point Aerows Dec 2013 #142
Another flaming bag on the doorstep whatchamacallit Dec 2013 #6
try reading the article link Pretzel_Warrior Dec 2013 #7
No. I agree. That the flaming bag happens to contain... Pholus Dec 2013 #10
DU rec... SidDithers Dec 2013 #13
The 'right' people are pissed off enough at Greenwald that they sabrina 1 Dec 2013 #130
Too funny... SidDithers Dec 2013 #131
It would be funny if it wasn't actually happening anti partisan Dec 2013 #132
This message was self-deleted by its author delrem Dec 2013 #15
Freerepublic? (nt) anti partisan Dec 2013 #16
He's a Me-wing journalist Pretzel_Warrior Dec 2013 #17
Very informative post anti partisan Dec 2013 #18
I just like comedy. And Brian Regan as well as Glenn Greenwald are sheer comedy Pretzel_Warrior Dec 2013 #19
This message was self-deleted by its author delrem Dec 2013 #21
it's not a slang. I'm a progressive in EVERY SINGLE test I take on the issue. the point is... Pretzel_Warrior Dec 2013 #24
This message was self-deleted by its author delrem Dec 2013 #41
make a substantive argument somewhere. anywwhere on this thread.. Pretzel_Warrior Dec 2013 #44
Don't try to kill the messenger. JDPriestly Dec 2013 #76
I'm trying to expose a charlatan Pretzel_Warrior Dec 2013 #79
In what sense do you think he is a "shape shifter"? JDPriestly Dec 2013 #80
Ah, the same wing as you, then. Union Scribe Dec 2013 #91
because you only notice those. I post on many subjects Pretzel_Warrior Dec 2013 #94
Left wing journalist? Cali_Democrat Dec 2013 #23
This message was self-deleted by its author delrem Dec 2013 #27
Greenwald had his lips planted firmly on GWB's behind Cali_Democrat Dec 2013 #31
This message was self-deleted by its author delrem Dec 2013 #33
Yes Indeed. Lets ignore the 3 books her wrote criticizing GWB's behind. Luminous Animal Dec 2013 #111
In his career as a journalist anti partisan Dec 2013 #30
He's a libertarian, which is not compatible with being a "left wing journalist." pnwmom Dec 2013 #34
GG supports far-right beliefs like single payer healthcare and massively increased social spending anti partisan Dec 2013 #40
How many other writers from the libertarian Cato Institute do you follow? pnwmom Dec 2013 #45
He's not FROM the libertarian CATO Institute anti partisan Dec 2013 #50
nowhere does Greenwald actually say he supports single payer Pretzel_Warrior Dec 2013 #47
Are you really being serious? (nt) anti partisan Dec 2013 #62
Libertarians are NOT left wing or progressive. pnwmom Dec 2013 #32
As Glenn Greenwald is demonstrably not a libertarian, whom are you referring to? (nt) anti partisan Dec 2013 #35
He's demonstrably a journalist who writes for the libertarian Cato Institute. n/t pnwmom Dec 2013 #38
Have you read what he has written for the CATO institute? anti partisan Dec 2013 #46
you mean he's a lawyer who decided to write fiction like John Grisham. Pretzel_Warrior Dec 2013 #88
I actually find his article quite factual, as it is based in facts. (nt) anti partisan Dec 2013 #92
This message was self-deleted by its author delrem Dec 2013 #37
He's a journalist who writes for the libertarian Cato Institute. n/t pnwmom Dec 2013 #39
The stance he took in his article for the CATO institute would be considered left-wing anti partisan Dec 2013 #48
Libertarians are a weird combination of left and right wing beliefs. pnwmom Dec 2013 #73
I know what a libertarian is, but Glenn Greenwald is not one. anti partisan Dec 2013 #84
He's accepted their dirty money and lent his name and reputation to them. n/t pnwmom Dec 2013 #86
I'd do the same as Glenn had. It's about supporting a single cause, not the think tank. anti partisan Dec 2013 #89
undoubtedly that's why he performed at their donor's benefit gathering and defended Citizens United Pretzel_Warrior Dec 2013 #105
More misleading slander anti partisan Dec 2013 #112
My my.. you're getting them flustered! Cha Dec 2013 #63
If a wacky letter to the editor is all you got, you ain't got nothing at all (nt) anti partisan Dec 2013 #68
Playing "gotcha" with a letter from some nitwit who doesn't understand what a civil libertarian is TheKentuckian Dec 2013 #143
OMG how dare you say something nasty about Greenwald davidpdx Dec 2013 #25
lol. yeah. it's weird all the low count posters here on this thread. Pretzel_Warrior Dec 2013 #52
Newbies, surely...nt SidDithers Dec 2013 #75
You mean like.. Cha Dec 2013 #67
Nonsense. But you know that. Hissyspit Dec 2013 #97
I'm referring to those calling DUers shills for daring to criticize him davidpdx Dec 2013 #118
Though emoprogs profoundly lack a sense of humor... OilemFirchen Dec 2013 #122
More nonsense. Hissyspit Dec 2013 #140
This message was self-deleted by its author delrem Dec 2013 #29
So we're not the only ones(those of us on Cha Dec 2013 #36
thank you for your link as well. WOW! all I can say is.. Pretzel_Warrior Dec 2013 #42
Like I say.. Cha Dec 2013 #54
from your lips to the Voters' ears!! let's turn the country blue Pretzel_Warrior Dec 2013 #59
It's good to know that you accept a letter to the editor as fact at face value anti partisan Dec 2013 #43
This message was self-deleted by its author delrem Dec 2013 #53
''When exposing a crime is treated as committing a crime, you are ruled by criminals.'' ~Anon DeSwiss Dec 2013 #56
what crime was exposed? Pretzel_Warrior Dec 2013 #72
A crime that was recently ruled unconstitutional by a federal judge. PoliticalPothead Dec 2013 #101
federal judge ruled differently. and if it makes it to supreme court Pretzel_Warrior Dec 2013 #102
Kill the messenger...how original. nt U4ikLefty Dec 2013 #58
Exposing a charlatan. How original. Pretzel_Warrior Dec 2013 #65
charlatans tell lies (like the NSA and politicians) and whistlblowers expose uncomfotable truths. U4ikLefty Dec 2013 #85
Here's Greenwald speaking at the Socialism 2013 Conference in Chicago RufusTFirefly Dec 2013 #77
he spoke via skype from Brazil about the Snowden Affair Pretzel_Warrior Dec 2013 #96
What does him talking about marijuana at Cato have to do with anything? Hissyspit Dec 2013 #98
oh but he did so much more for Cato than that. Don't let Greenwald's own humility/deceit fool you Pretzel_Warrior Dec 2013 #104
I saw all that when it was first posted months and months ago. Hissyspit Dec 2013 #108
"ultra progressive extreme group like socialists" shaayecanaan Dec 2013 #99
I really hope you get paid for this. Marr Dec 2013 #100
I'm not getting paid for this. Pretzel_Warrior Dec 2013 #103
A very very very patient one LiberalLovinLug Dec 2013 #110
Ad Hominem Attacks - The Worst Of The Logical Fallacies cantbeserious Dec 2013 #113
I call it the Double Fallacy Attack anti partisan Dec 2013 #114
Best To Keep Calling Them Out - Other Members Might Catch On And End The Logical Non Sense cantbeserious Dec 2013 #115
You're a little unhinged tonight, spittle flying and everything. DisgustipatedinCA Dec 2013 #116
117 replies and only 8 thought it was worth Ichingcarpenter Dec 2013 #117
It's a thread whose only message is "I personally hate Glenn Greenwald" DisgustipatedinCA Dec 2013 #136
News is what somebody somewhere wants to suppress; all the rest is advertising. Lord Northcliffe Tierra_y_Libertad Dec 2013 #125
Alright, alright, you can be a simple-minded Manichean, too. WorseBeforeBetter Dec 2013 #133
Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Greenwaldian physics»Reply #120