General Discussion

nilesobek

(1,423 posts)

141. The discourse goes from a 1 to a ten

Sat Dec 28, 2013, 12:20 PM

Dec 2013

on an anger meter pretty rapidly around here. Overall it seems that both sides, Snowden and the NSA broke the law. We can create monsters out of thin air or wait for the facts. Neither side is very forthcoming in releasing information. The NSA cites national security and Snowden is slowly releasing his material and Putin has ordered him to stop it on threats of deportation.

We don't have enough information to declare heroes and badguys.

If I had to guess, I would say the NSA is looking pretty bad here, since Clapper lied and everytime they say something it gets refuted quick and then they cite national security again. Is it really national security at stake or is it the survival of intelligence agencies at stake? Have they done things to ordinary American citizens that are illegal and immoral?

Because the wars are over, all information should be released, to you and I, after all, their bosses.

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Highlight:

Lawrence O'Donnell: Edward Snowden's Christmas Message Was 'Wildly Overblown,' 'Provably Untrue' [View all] ProSense Dec 2013 OP

Winters in Russia are cold. Really, really cold. nt msanthrope Dec 2013 #1

A short post below related to the video Tx4obama Dec 2013 #2

Ok so we've gone from Snowden is a Chinese/Russian spy SomethingFishy Dec 2013 #3

Not sure about anyone else, ProSense Dec 2013 #4

Thank you. SomethingFishy Dec 2013 #7

No ProSense Dec 2013 #9

So those dozens upon dozens of anti-Greenwald and anti-Snowden posts were all just saying SomethingFishy Dec 2013 #12

Huh? ProSense Dec 2013 #15

Yes you did. You just claimed that all along you have been saying that Snowden SomethingFishy Dec 2013 #16

LOL! ProSense Dec 2013 #18

Actually Bush said in a news conference in 2005 phone call records was being collected. Thinkingabout Dec 2013 #29

We have been told that "all nations do this surveillance thing." That's what they were JDPriestly Dec 2013 #41

Snowden is not known for intelligent decisions and therefore we do not know who will and has this Thinkingabout Dec 2013 #49

Who is NSA? I know that one of them lied to Congress. JDPriestly Dec 2013 #97

'Crazy'? Even Snowden won't tell us what he saw! randome Dec 2013 #131

The information you provide can be used by rogue employees such as Snowden who has Thinkingabout Dec 2013 #134

Trust the NSA?... Its "ONLY" the Meta-Data? bvar22 Dec 2013 #144

Ahem. He's talking about the previous president and veep. ucrdem Dec 2013 #145

And THAT makes a difference to you? bvar22 Dec 2013 #153

I think it makes a difference to Joe, yes. nt ucrdem Dec 2013 #156

I asked if it makes a difference to YOU. bvar22 Dec 2013 #166

Pushing Snowden is not centrism, it's rightism. ucrdem Dec 2013 #169

Supporting protections for Whistle Blowers, restrictions on Government Secrecy and Surveillance, bvar22 Dec 2013 #179

Calling Snowden a persecuted whistleblower is rightism, yes. ucrdem Dec 2013 #220

+10000 Katashi_itto Dec 2013 #224

And? Lifelong Dem Dec 2013 #34

Maybe being stuck in that hotel like that treestar Dec 2013 #13

That's just it, Tx.. somebody told Snowden that it was a good Cha Dec 2013 #79

These are the same people who said it was 'wildly overblown' PoliticalPothead Dec 2013 #162

Patriot PowerToThePeople Dec 2013 #5

"Patriot": ProSense Dec 2013 #6

lol treestar Dec 2013 #14

a REAL true American patriot BELOW Tx4obama Dec 2013 #17

Below what? truebrit71 Dec 2013 #20

This ProSense Dec 2013 #40

...i wasn't talking to you ProShill truebrit71 Dec 2013 #75

Attacking other's DUers is against the TOA davidpdx Dec 2013 #77

...and yet strangely enough I don't... truebrit71 Dec 2013 #139

Yes, it was an attack davidpdx Dec 2013 #214

I wasn't insinuating anything... truebrit71 Dec 2013 #222

Yes you were davidpdx Dec 2013 #223

No I wasn't... truebrit71 Dec 2013 #225

You are in denial and it isn't in Egypt davidpdx Dec 2013 #227

Nope. Wrong. truebrit71 Dec 2013 #228

Hey, you just survived a jury by 3-3...congrats. U4ikLefty Dec 2013 #78

That was wrong treestar Dec 2013 #93

No it wasn't... truebrit71 Dec 2013 #137

Yep... Fawke Em Dec 2013 #172

That's it, ProSense Dec 2013 #173

What I'm saying is that I'm tired of DUers Fawke Em Dec 2013 #180

Here's ProSense Dec 2013 #189

No. That's not what I'm basically saying. Fawke Em Dec 2013 #216

you clearly intended to insult. Sheepshank Dec 2013 #186

It was juvenile and petty. Bobbie Jo Dec 2013 #221

Your opinion is of pro sense and how you don't like her posts treestar Dec 2013 #140

Imagine that from a Greenwald Snowden fan. ProSense Dec 2013 #143

...and again you interject without knowing what you are talking about... truebrit71 Dec 2013 #146

"i am a fan of neither" ProSense Dec 2013 #148

Because it is another example of a "liberal" sellout... truebrit71 Dec 2013 #151

? If you're not a "fan" of Greenwald and Snowden, why ProSense Dec 2013 #155

I don't have to be a fan.. truebrit71 Dec 2013 #158

You're ProSense Dec 2013 #160

Yes it was. And s/he knows that as does that jury that let it slide. Attacks on Prosense often Number23 Dec 2013 #209

That's good to know... truebrit71 Dec 2013 #138

LOL! "sick of your boot-licking Obama Is God posts" ProSense Dec 2013 #142

Not sure if that's sad... truebrit71 Dec 2013 #147

Question ProSense Dec 2013 #149

Answer truebrit71 Dec 2013 #152

LOL! ProSense Dec 2013 #157

ROFLMMAO!!! truebrit71 Dec 2013 #159

LOL! ProSense Dec 2013 #163

What a childish post. Fawke Em Dec 2013 #182

Seems like ProSense Dec 2013 #188

Hmmm... Fawke Em Dec 2013 #217

And I am still looking forward to the promised Hope and Change he promise. RC Dec 2013 #58

"Hope" has worn pretty thin around here, bvar22 Dec 2013 #150

I tink you mean Comrad, not Patriot. n/t Whisp Dec 2013 #21

And I think you should learn to spell before correcting others, comrade. DisgustipatedinCA Dec 2013 #43

and I think you are a great spell checker Whisp Dec 2013 #52

I "tink" you are correct. nt U4ikLefty Dec 2013 #154

Should that be recaptioned "Russian Patriot" Progressive dog Dec 2013 #104

'he hates it too much to return' PoliticalPothead Dec 2013 #165

Snowden left the USA, it is still where it was Progressive dog Dec 2013 #219

"an unrecorded unanalyzed thought" Motown_Johnny Dec 2013 #8

+1 n/t FSogol Dec 2013 #10

Privacy, as a political concept, is not merely the idea that you keep your thoughts to yourself. Luminous Animal Dec 2013 #28

If you are so worried about your privacy then you should be very concerned about the files Thinkingabout Dec 2013 #33

You are dreaminig he does Lifelong Dem Dec 2013 #54

Hahaha! Snowden hasn't the power to use the information he has against me. Luminous Animal Dec 2013 #73

And that's the point in a nutshell. Fawke Em Dec 2013 #183

You seem to have a misconception... ljm2002 Dec 2013 #174

There has been a legal method for a very long time, read the Fourth amendment Again. Thinkingabout Dec 2013 #192

Nice try, no cigar... ljm2002 Dec 2013 #195

Ok, if you are looking for a cigar, what authorization did Snowden use to get clearance on copying Thinkingabout Dec 2013 #197

There is no question that Snowden broke the law... ljm2002 Dec 2013 #204

Snowden claims to have more information in files, I don't have proof if he does or does not have Thinkingabout Dec 2013 #207

You claimed... ljm2002 Dec 2013 #208

Snowden claimed he had proof, he must have phone call records or is he lying again. Thinkingabout Dec 2013 #210

No, Snowden did not get any warrants... ljm2002 Dec 2013 #212

Now we have some truth coming, we will see how the SC rules. Thinkingabout Dec 2013 #213

How is it private if you use the medium where the public can view all? Lifelong Dem Dec 2013 #36

You are talking about a whole different ball game. Just because a data base available on the Thinkingabout Dec 2013 #51

How does this relate to what Snowden said about analyzing ones thoughts? Lifelong Dem Dec 2013 #56

It is private if the government is restricted from compiling it all into a massive data base. Luminous Animal Dec 2013 #72

So they can sell you shit! treestar Dec 2013 #94

I correspond with my healthcare providers online. That is nobody's business, not even the NSA's. JDPriestly Dec 2013 #99

The NSA is not doing that treestar Dec 2013 #108

Did you read this? JDPriestly Dec 2013 #116

legally, with court ordered terms? treestar Dec 2013 #123

We don't have to just go along with things that are now considered to be legal. JDPriestly Dec 2013 #126

Prediction of what scandal? treestar Dec 2013 #128

The conversation is about much more than phone call data... ljm2002 Dec 2013 #176

Really, you answered your own question... ljm2002 Dec 2013 #175

They are working on the technology. Not paranoia. Mojorabbit Dec 2013 #38

Actually, when you think about all the research being done on the brain these days, JDPriestly Dec 2013 #42

Careful, Lawrence, Jamaal510 Dec 2013 #11

Anyone who criticizes Greenwald and Snowden and defends Obama is deemed a shill davidpdx Dec 2013 #76

Yes, I saw that tonight.. we must be Cha Dec 2013 #82

If we are paid shills then dammit I'm getting ripped off davidpdx Dec 2013 #87

unemployment is no longer a problem treestar Dec 2013 #127

They have so convinced themselves of Snowden's fantasies treestar Dec 2013 #92

The reason I post my thoughts so freely is that I am way beyond the retirement age. JDPriestly Dec 2013 #103

That's not the NSA treestar Dec 2013 #107

It depends on what you do for a living I suppose. JDPriestly Dec 2013 #119

Obama agrees with the critics of this program (at least some of us). JDPriestly Dec 2013 #102

I agree with you on that davidpdx Dec 2013 #215

There are people who can take it. I couldn't either. JDPriestly Dec 2013 #218

Thanks for calling it what it is, Lawrence. Whisp Dec 2013 #19

Whatever Larry... truebrit71 Dec 2013 #22

If Snowden was a "patriot"... ifyousayso Dec 2013 #23

Yes. Because the U.S. is so super cool that it can violate the privacy rights of citizens Luminous Animal Dec 2013 #30

Keep the checks comin', MSNBC! Octafish Dec 2013 #24

Many know who ultimately writes his paycheck. nt Incitatus Dec 2013 #25

I think it affects his reporting. Octafish Dec 2013 #35

Of course Incitatus Dec 2013 #37

New Greenwald ProSense Dec 2013 #26

So I googled my name and... Turbineguy Dec 2013 #27

Doesn't that make you wonder why the NSA wants to collect that information? JDPriestly Dec 2013 #105

Why on earth anybody listens to that corporate concubine is a mystery. Egalitarian Thug Dec 2013 #31

You forgot to add the rolling, laughing smiley. Fawke Em Dec 2013 #184

Paul Revere is a liar? Say it ain't so... SidDithers Dec 2013 #32

He saved our freedom! treestar Dec 2013 #125

Whose opinion of the scope and intrusiveness of the NSA programs am I supposed to JDPriestly Dec 2013 #39

If I was Snowden and wanted to sell my BS, I'd overblow this too Lifelong Dem Dec 2013 #47

+1!!! treestar Dec 2013 #95

Much worse than wishful thinking. He is the voice of the Democratic elite. Egalitarian Thug Dec 2013 #65

LOL, TV propaganda is funny! Corruption Inc Dec 2013 #44

Speaking of ProSense Dec 2013 #45

Ever hear of the NSA? They're illegally and unconstitutionally spying on us, LOL Corruption Inc Dec 2013 #53

They're ProSense Dec 2013 #57

Q: How can you tell when authoritarian shills are on the ropes? DisgustipatedinCA Dec 2013 #46

Actually, ProSense Dec 2013 #48

Still waiting for your answer. DisgustipatedinCA Dec 2013 #50

Losing track? n/t ProSense Dec 2013 #55

You accuse Snowden of dishonesty without any examples. Let's talk about liars. DisgustipatedinCA Dec 2013 #59

LOL! ProSense Dec 2013 #60

Are you able to name any of these delusional comments? DisgustipatedinCA Dec 2013 #61

Here ProSense Dec 2013 #63

Are you contractually bound to reply to every post written to you? DisgustipatedinCA Dec 2013 #64

Ooh, now you're adding your version of "substance" to the thread ProSense Dec 2013 #66

test DisgustipatedinCA Dec 2013 #67

...ing 1, 2, 3 ProSense Dec 2013 #68

Test 2 DisgustipatedinCA Dec 2013 #69

Here's ProSense Dec 2013 #70

Bottom line is that Snowden has openly and publicly admitted that he committed crimes Tx4obama Dec 2013 #62

Clapper openly and publicily lied to congress solarhydrocan Dec 2013 #84

Imagine how he'll exaggerate every aspect of it treestar Dec 2013 #91

Listen to what LOD says on the video treestar Dec 2013 #90

Watch the video treestar Dec 2013 #89

I think that Snowden knows much more about what is going on at the NSA and what the future JDPriestly Dec 2013 #113

My understanding is that he couldn't hack high school. ucrdem Dec 2013 #115

That's like dissing Bill Gates because he dropped out of college. JDPriestly Dec 2013 #117

His story doesn't add up, you're 100% right on that score. nt ucrdem Dec 2013 #118

The things he says in the video are demonstrably untrue treestar Dec 2013 #121

+1 Marr Dec 2013 #136

Snowden should go back to work at NSA since he says he still works there Lifelong Dem Dec 2013 #71

He works there from Cha Dec 2013 #80

snowden sounds like a fucking idiot JI7 Dec 2013 #74

Yeah, and it's refreshing to have him called Cha Dec 2013 #81

Thanks, nice to hear some reasonable adults speaking on this for a change. sagat Dec 2013 #83

Does ANyone have a Link to Snowden's comments on Pussy Riot ? JI7 Dec 2013 #85

Oh my God. I watched that TWICE I loved it so Number23 Dec 2013 #86

yeah why weren't they so "concerned" in 2005 treestar Dec 2013 #88

But he's so dreamy! randome Dec 2013 #132

The guys Joy Reid mentioned treestar Dec 2013 #133

James Risen treestar Dec 2013 #135

And MSNBC is about as believable as Le Taz Hot Dec 2013 #96

Look at the division on this thread... solarhydrocan Dec 2013 #101

Meh, there's nothing new about that LordGlenconner Dec 2013 #170

You did not watch the video treestar Dec 2013 #109

Sorry, Le Taz Hot Dec 2013 #112

And didn't watch the video treestar Dec 2013 #120

I was referring to your post Le Taz Hot Dec 2013 #122

Yeah I can't make it through Puglover Dec 2013 #130

Every time they say that, Snowden's claims are provent to be true. Scuba Dec 2013 #98

Watch the video treestar Dec 2013 #110

LOL, you are really just looking silly at this point, entertaining though! nt Logical Dec 2013 #100

Another ProSense Dec 2013 #106

"A child born today"?? Eddie, you big dope, you forgot it's Christmas. ucrdem Dec 2013 #111

Claim that world is round is provably untrue. GoneFishin Dec 2013 #114

Kick nt stevenleser Dec 2013 #124

Thank you Lawrence for a common sense perspective on this issue. DCBob Dec 2013 #129

The discourse goes from a 1 to a ten nilesobek Dec 2013 #141

I'm not surprised O'Donnell would say something like that on MSNBC. bvar22 Dec 2013 #161

Here's what Greenwald said ProSense Dec 2013 #164

I don't have a problem with someone being RICH. bvar22 Dec 2013 #167

Neither ProSense Dec 2013 #168

Didn't bother to wade through your Gish Gallop NonSense. bvar22 Dec 2013 #181

Ah, name calling. ProSense Dec 2013 #190

Obama is President. He is a Democrat Snowden leaked the document while Obama was in office Penicilino Dec 2013 #171

True. Fawke Em Dec 2013 #185

O'Donnell gave himself away... ljm2002 Dec 2013 #177

"The work he has done is vitally important..." O'Donnell Tierra_y_Libertad Dec 2013 #178

So maybe ProSense Dec 2013 #187

No. But, those portraying Snowden as a Traitor, Narcissist, spy, etc are even more hyperbolic. Tierra_y_Libertad Dec 2013 #191

Those ProSense Dec 2013 #193

Sadly so. Thery also existed when Ellsberg made his revelations. Tierra_y_Libertad Dec 2013 #194

Different case, and ProSense Dec 2013 #196

He'd be a damned fool if he did. Tierra_y_Libertad Dec 2013 #198

See, different path. n/t ProSense Dec 2013 #199

See whisltle blower and Daniel Ellberg's opinions of Snowdens actions. Tierra_y_Libertad Dec 2013 #200

It's still a different path. Snowden is unwilling to face the consequences. n/t ProSense Dec 2013 #201

So is the NSA and the president. Tierra_y_Libertad Dec 2013 #202

That doesn't make sense. n/t ProSense Dec 2013 #203

Of course not. The NSA and president are unlikely to be threatened with trials. Tierra_y_Libertad Dec 2013 #205

If he ProSense Dec 2013 #206

Lawrence O'Donnell & Mitt Romney: Separated At Birth smb Dec 2013 #226

Does anyone BobUp Dec 2013 #211