General Discussion

Matariki

(18,775 posts)

45. I think it's an important topic

Sat Dec 28, 2013, 08:18 PM

Dec 2013

I get what you are saying about those images presenting and creating cultural norms. I don't think the author expressed it in a way that won't get misconstrued. Which is unfortunate because it shuts down the discussion in any real way.

I remember watching movies from the 70s and earlier and how infuriated I would get when a woman gets attacked in one of them sheNEVER fights back, just screams. I always felt that that kind of imagery was very harmful. It didn't have to be overtly sexual - just perpetuating the idea (in both men AND women) that women are victims, are weak, are incapable of defending themselves. Have you ever seen Frenzy by Alfred Hitchcock? Damn that movie irked the hell out of me when the woman just screams as she's strangled with a tie. I actually screamed at the tv - "for god's sake woman! poke his goddamn eyes out! don't just scream til you're dead". That really ruined that movie for me. Not realistic at all.

Anyway.

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Rape Culture 101 [View all] boston bean Dec 2013 OP

Ugh Blanket Statements Dec 2013 #1

Rape culture normalizes and trivializes sexual assault BainsBane Dec 2013 #2

K&R Solly Mack Dec 2013 #3

Rape culture means 3-5% of sexual assaults result in conviction BainsBane Dec 2013 #4

key words: "if you so desire to learn more about it" nt redqueen Dec 2013 #5

Does DU have a rape culture problem? pintobean Dec 2013 #6

America does. Rex Dec 2013 #11

Sometimes it seems like the whole world does... Lunacee_2013 Dec 2013 #86

only sometimes?? niyad Dec 2013 #120

I agree and accept rape is a major problem in America.. sir pball Dec 2013 #150

+1. pacalo Dec 2013 #65

Matter of fact, it does. Sheldon Cooper Dec 2013 #93

That's it? pintobean Dec 2013 #100

Frankly, yes. Sheldon Cooper Dec 2013 #102

Your answer pintobean Dec 2013 #111

Got a link to the pro-"rape culture" threads on DU? NoOneMan Dec 2013 #104

Maybe not pro-rape-culture per se. But there's a lot of MRA-ish "poor men" whining nomorenomore08 Dec 2013 #113

And there is a lot more people murdered than there are innocents on death row NoOneMan Dec 2013 #116

But has the Innocence Project ever implied that the majority of murder accusations are false? nomorenomore08 Dec 2013 #124

No. Has anyone on DU suggested that more than 1 in 2 rape accusations are false? NoOneMan Dec 2013 #126

They don't have to say so outright. But when they bring up the supposed problem of false accusations nomorenomore08 Dec 2013 #131

It sure does! You should see my list of trashed threads! n/t lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #140

bingo. pintobean Dec 2013 #141

Message auto-removed Name removed Dec 2013 #7

Is the difference between rape and consensual sex really so confusing for you? BainsBane Dec 2013 #8

Seriously. Sheldon Cooper Dec 2013 #9

I thought some the language in the OP could be construed that way too. Matariki Dec 2013 #15

I myself prefer the Wikipedia definition of rape culture BainsBane Dec 2013 #18

Exactly. Which is why I think the write up in the OP isn't very good. Matariki Dec 2013 #23

"Which is why I think the write up in the OP isn't very good." opiate69 Dec 2013 #33

Shakesville is "a random blogger"? xulamaude Dec 2013 #42

Yeah that gave me a chuckle too. boston bean Dec 2013 #43

of course it did... opiate69 Dec 2013 #59

Post removed Post removed Dec 2013 #54

What? I'm guessing you're saying xulamaude Dec 2013 #57

Post removed Post removed Dec 2013 #61

You're a real piece of work 69. nt xulamaude Dec 2013 #69

i would say the silly male giggles at being offensive. wow. nt seabeyond Dec 2013 #146

That was an ugly, ugly image, I'm glad it got hidden. KitSileya Dec 2013 #165

I have never heard of a Shakesville 1awake Dec 2013 #172

I see your point. nt BainsBane Dec 2013 #41

Message auto-removed Name removed Dec 2013 #17

The specific mention of "movies and television shows" limits the meaning. redqueen Dec 2013 #49

What would helpful then is a disclaimer for media indicating explicit consent MrScorpio Dec 2013 #88

Media affects us. redqueen Dec 2013 #90

Do you think depictions of such interactions should be illegal or just frowned upon? n/t Kurska Dec 2013 #164

If that were true, you'd expect virtually no argument on the pornography related threads hughee99 Dec 2013 #19

then yo have not actually heard the arguments about this but have your preconceived ideas. seabeyond Dec 2013 #28

Read the thread. Heard a LOT of arguments. Some good, some not so good. hughee99 Dec 2013 #35

you are right. it is not an easy conversation. there is so much to all of this. wrapping it up in seabeyond Dec 2013 #39

Fair enough. hughee99 Dec 2013 #55

In fact, people in my local BDSM community have had run-ins with the law... opiate69 Dec 2013 #40

Rape is not bdsm BainsBane Dec 2013 #38

Based on the thread I linked to, it seems no one was suggesting that a film of an actual rape hughee99 Dec 2013 #52

There is the theoretical insistence BainsBane Dec 2013 #64

"My position on privileging profit over human life is consistent." Well said. nomorenomore08 Dec 2013 #127

the discussion I saw was about how vids were labeled "real rape" as a selling point cinnabonbon Dec 2013 #70

The discussion I linked to was about Brits banning "violent porn" whether real or simulated. hughee99 Dec 2013 #75

Oh, I see. I didn't see the thread you're referring. Would you happen to have a link? cinnabonbon Dec 2013 #79

I think this will get you there. hughee99 Dec 2013 #83

Thank you very much. nt cinnabonbon Dec 2013 #87

Thank you! nt raccoon Dec 2013 #44

Are you seriously unable to determine the difference? etherealtruth Dec 2013 #12

the word consensual about tells you all. nt seabeyond Dec 2013 #13

Question: MrScorpio Dec 2013 #10

I'm surprised at you BainsBane Dec 2013 #14

Yeah but the description in the OP mentions movies and romance book covers Matariki Dec 2013 #16

I think the issue is the imagery of that is what women want and it perpetuates a culture. boston bean Dec 2013 #21

Well some women do, which is why those covers sell books Matariki Dec 2013 #27

I didn't think you were arguing and neither am I. boston bean Dec 2013 #34

I think it's an important topic Matariki Dec 2013 #45

I guess no feminist is perfect, she could have written it better, but she didn't. boston bean Dec 2013 #47

Yeah, but do you want porn depicting such to be banned? davidn3600 Dec 2013 #24

The point being made was that a lot of porn was not consentual. boston bean Dec 2013 #29

rape porn, regardless how many times you are told, is not the same as bsdm. it was explained seabeyond Dec 2013 #31

And that anyone who didn't pintobean Dec 2013 #36

If you can't tell a simulation from the real thing, then what the hell are we supposed to do? nomorenomore08 Dec 2013 #133

You mean like the ones in movies? davidn3600 Dec 2013 #137

I'm not talking about a feature film that is clearly fictional. That's not the same thing at all. nomorenomore08 Dec 2013 #139

So in other words...we're going back to talking about BDSM porn davidn3600 Dec 2013 #152

I'm not calling for banning *anything* - other than real footage of real criminal acts - nomorenomore08 Dec 2013 #154

I just want to have that clarified MrScorpio Dec 2013 #26

I do not believe that is the case. boston bean Dec 2013 #32

Do me a favor, I'm on my iPod now MrScorpio Dec 2013 #46

I went and watched the entire video. boston bean Dec 2013 #63

Even if she specifically wants him to dominate her? MrScorpio Dec 2013 #74

No, that is not what I am saying. boston bean Dec 2013 #76

An individual woman "wanting to be dominated" is not problematic. But when it's implied that this is nomorenomore08 Dec 2013 #134

I totally agree with that. MrScorpio Dec 2013 #143

I see no such link BainsBane Dec 2013 #48

And that's what I think as well MrScorpio Dec 2013 #62

Perhaps it does BainsBane Dec 2013 #67

I suppose the thread cinnabonbon Dec 2013 #71

+1 Matariki Dec 2013 #68

Excellent question. pintobean Dec 2013 #20

Question in response to question: Spider Jerusalem Dec 2013 #25

If that were the case then wouldn't you find dom/sub roles falling mostly along gender lines? Matariki Dec 2013 #30

Not necessarily, no Spider Jerusalem Dec 2013 #37

Those thing can be true sometimes, sure. Matariki Dec 2013 #50

Yes, but... Spider Jerusalem Dec 2013 #60

It's worth asking Matariki Dec 2013 #66

I think you're really onto something cinnabonbon Dec 2013 #56

That isn't the case? Are you sure? redqueen Dec 2013 #53

Not in the community I was involved in Matariki Dec 2013 #58

It has nothing to do with gender or sex roles, it has everything to do with power and trust. Kurska Dec 2013 #153

But the intersection of power and trust with sexuality... Spider Jerusalem Dec 2013 #155

Baking/cooking is also heavily associated with gender and sex norms Kurska Dec 2013 #156

I never said "feminine" = "submissive" (note other response in this thread) Spider Jerusalem Dec 2013 #157

This I seriously doubt: Matariki Dec 2013 #160

I think it has more to do with duality and something intrinsic to human nature than social roles. Kurska Dec 2013 #163

See my post 49. redqueen Dec 2013 #51

Is this what the kerfuffle at DU is all about? Shankapotomus Dec 2013 #22

No, its not. NoOneMan Dec 2013 #72

LOL BainsBane Dec 2013 #73

creep shaming! LOL boston bean Dec 2013 #77

That PSA thread initiated a whole lot of meta doing just that NoOneMan Dec 2013 #78

You do know Recursion's thread was in response to another that same day, right? BainsBane Dec 2013 #81

I don't blame feminists. I like feminists. I blame your mean little club NoOneMan Dec 2013 #84

Oh, so you don't like "my little club" BainsBane Dec 2013 #91

How is HoF responsible for everything everyone posts re: feminist issues?! redqueen Dec 2013 #94

Its not difficult to ignore the bullying and let some other sad sap get piled on NoOneMan Dec 2013 #97

What sad sap got piled on? redqueen Dec 2013 #101

I'm referring to the entire idea of letting bullying go unchallenged NoOneMan Dec 2013 #103

Oh, I'm following all right. nt redqueen Dec 2013 #107

Here's the deal. You make an argument, you get challenged on it BainsBane Dec 2013 #112

"mean little club"??? Sheldon Cooper Dec 2013 #95

I'm trying to reciprocate the level of observed discourse NoOneMan Dec 2013 #98

lol Sheldon Cooper Dec 2013 #99

You "don't hate feminists" BainsBane Dec 2013 #105

"one of the eager female cohorts" Waiting For Everyman Dec 2013 #114

Wow,. you must really miss Meta BainsBane Dec 2013 #117

Post removed Post removed Dec 2013 #122

Because women who don't agree with every single word of the HOF experts on all things polly7 Dec 2013 #128

Good to know. Waiting For Everyman Dec 2013 #138

Clarification: LadyHawkAZ Dec 2013 #144

Now that linked post was 'pathetic'. nt polly7 Dec 2013 #147

Hi Polly! LadyHawkAZ Dec 2013 #176

Hey LadyHawk! polly7 Dec 2013 #177

Wow! Hadn't seen that one before. Waiting For Everyman Dec 2013 #159

Some people really hate it when uppity feminists talk back. n/t LadyHawkAZ Dec 2013 #175

Just because another woman disagrees with you doesn't mean she's sucking up to men... Violet_Crumble Dec 2013 #148

From my perspective, the problem is not disagreement BainsBane Dec 2013 #169

"I don't blame feminists. I like feminists--well, except for the ones who speak out, who tell the niyad Dec 2013 #106

I think if we both want to spend our time pretending what the other is implying.... NoOneMan Dec 2013 #108

"incivility" BainsBane Dec 2013 #110

oh dear, MY discourse is divisive, etc., etc., again with the "tone" yes? that particular argument niyad Dec 2013 #118

Tone is crucial to effective communication NoOneMan Dec 2013 #121

Really? Yet you have disregarded a great deal of it in this thread BainsBane Dec 2013 #125

This message was self-deleted by its author Waiting For Everyman Dec 2013 #161

perhaps you should read, and heed, your own advice then. and consider that hearing the "tone" niyad Dec 2013 #129

I definitely will to be honest NoOneMan Dec 2013 #132

"Bullying" BainsBane Dec 2013 #109

I am pretty sure there is a feature on this board called "ignore" or some such, if we are all so niyad Dec 2013 #119

Exactly BainsBane Dec 2013 #123

The Meta Forum served a usefull purpose imho, for providing a venue for spillover threads like that Electric Monk Dec 2013 #82

Strawmen 101... Is that *really* all you took from these discussions? nomorenomore08 Dec 2013 #135

Not all. From the "kerfuffle" causing ones, yes. NoOneMan Dec 2013 #136

Good comment! nt cinnabonbon Dec 2013 #80

Reading this, I just can't help but think Lunacee_2013 Dec 2013 #85

That is a perfect example of rape culture in action. BainsBane Dec 2013 #92

Really? Vashta Nerada Dec 2013 #89

Congratulations! Sheldon Cooper Dec 2013 #96

We do have a culture that accepts rape in most cases RobertEarl Dec 2013 #115

No there is no rape culture Harmony Blue Dec 2013 #149

Rape is illegal everywhere BainsBane Dec 2013 #168

No rape culture? chervilant Dec 2013 #170

for those who STILL need rape culture explained to them, read the following article, and the niyad Dec 2013 #130

I'm constantly surprised by the "duh, but, uh, what about..." posts in response to this Scootaloo Dec 2013 #142

K&R UtahLib Dec 2013 #145

"Rape culture is regarding violence as sexy" BDSM isn't rape culture Kurska Dec 2013 #151

Some of her points are spot on, others are not, and some are just ignorant. Behind the Aegis Dec 2013 #158

I just want to address one of your points KitSileya Dec 2013 #166

I still find the comment stupid and, actually, counterproductive. Behind the Aegis Dec 2013 #167

I see your point. KitSileya Dec 2013 #174

I can easily imagine a movie doing just what you describe... Silent3 Dec 2013 #178

Well, women already do everything they can to protect themselves, it's not like we need a PSA KitSileya Dec 2013 #179

Excellent points. Waiting For Everyman Dec 2013 #173

Nail any two boards together. gulliver Dec 2013 #162

Oh FFS...here we go again. NaturalHigh Dec 2013 #171