General Discussion

freedom fighter jh

(1,784 posts)

129. What I thought he/she was saying . . .

Mon Dec 30, 2013, 04:03 PM

Dec 2013

was that giving through government loses its points partly because it's not voluntary. What you "give" isn't really given; it's taken from you. For a community like that of Jesus' followers, it would not be so; those people join voluntarily.

Sure, the government is supposed to be us collectively. But is it? Sure I want to feel that my tax dollars are going to help people who need support. But lots more of my tax dollars are going to the military, something with which I want nothing to do.

Again, I'm not trying to say there shouldn't be government welfare programs. I'm horrified that food stamps and unemployment benefits get cut rather than corporate welfare. But I agree with Blanket Statement that there are *some* benefits to giving that come only with private giving. Why not have both? There's certainly enough need out there.

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More than a million people lose unemployment benefits today, because Jesus, or something. [View all] WilliamPitt Dec 2013 OP

Those are demands on individuals Blanket Statements Dec 2013 #1

That is your interpretation. Where in the Bible does it tell exactly HOW we are supposed to help the jwirr Dec 2013 #2

Ehhh, if you're compelled by law to pay taxes Blanket Statements Dec 2013 #3

Well many of us are NOT compelled. We do it because it supports the programs we worked to set up. jwirr Dec 2013 #14

Ummm, unless you're exempt from paying taxes Blanket Statements Dec 2013 #15

You are great at symantics but you miss the spirit and heart of the message. Do onto others what you jwirr Dec 2013 #19

Not really. Being happy to pay taxes doesn't mean Blanket Statements Dec 2013 #20

I actually know where you are coming from. Luther has a paragraph in one of his books that argues jwirr Dec 2013 #23

It's not a matter of willing or not willing Blanket Statements Dec 2013 #26

What would Jesus want? Would he want you to help the maximum number of people? CJCRANE Dec 2013 #78

Paying your taxes isn't charitable giving Blanket Statements Dec 2013 #86

So? The government is US. The government should spend the money as WE see fit CJCRANE Dec 2013 #91

Render unto Caesar, friend lisby Dec 2013 #114

Render unto Caesar is a close to a proscription as one may get... unless one simply chooses not to s LanternWaste Dec 2013 #131

I've heard that lame argument many times... ohheckyeah Dec 2013 #48

And taxes are used to hurt people. former9thward Dec 2013 #72

I don't use paying taxes as an excuse to not help people. ohheckyeah Dec 2013 #74

agreed. That is why I love him and feel real pain when he's dissed. roguevalley Dec 2013 #106

Well, obviously it's not meant to be taken literally. hatrack Dec 2013 #4

Are you from the People's Front of Judea?! DirkGently Dec 2013 #41

Fuck off! We're the Judean Peoples' Front! hatrack Dec 2013 #49

8) That's what I thought. DirkGently Dec 2013 #56

You must not be familiar with the New Testament. WinkyDink Dec 2013 #5

I am...the act of paying taxes is not the same Blanket Statements Dec 2013 #6

The original Christian community, the surviving followers of the late teacher Bluenorthwest Dec 2013 #101

I have no problem with that at all Blanket Statements Dec 2013 #102

Just so long as the government isn't involved .... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2013 #117

What? Blanket Statements Dec 2013 #120

Care to elaborate? badtoworse Dec 2013 #7

Yet the "christian" right demands that we CAG Dec 2013 #8

If the government took 100% of income to help the poor Blanket Statements Dec 2013 #9

I agree, but i happen to care about the millions CAG Dec 2013 #10

And that's fine. But the greed of the few Blanket Statements Dec 2013 #13

Do you use the term "seize their assets" CAG Dec 2013 #16

I'm talking about taking of the 1%s wealth Blanket Statements Dec 2013 #17

Well thats a rather specific and narrow view CAG Dec 2013 #18

I'm not referring to taxing them in the future Blanket Statements Dec 2013 #21

Practically all taxes are on things that were taxed before. That happens to the poor too. Maraya1969 Dec 2013 #38

I've not said anything about protecting the rich Blanket Statements Dec 2013 #40

Yes you did. In a round about way by pointing out that taxes are not the same as Maraya1969 Dec 2013 #47

No, I didn't Blanket Statements Dec 2013 #51

So your version of Jesus prefers a government that doesn't help people? CJCRANE Dec 2013 #79

Noooo Blanket Statements Dec 2013 #85

That's very arbitrary. Where the government has a choice it should use funds to help the people CJCRANE Dec 2013 #89

Would you pass a hungry child on the street Blanket Statements Dec 2013 #90

I said repeatedly that I do both. I pay taxes and help the needy. CJCRANE Dec 2013 #92

We'll find where Jesus talks about government Blanket Statements Dec 2013 #93

WE are the government. Jesus talks about helping the needy, not small print about CJCRANE Dec 2013 #95

If the government fed, clothed and sheltered every person in this country Blanket Statements Dec 2013 #96

No because I help people in other countries too. CJCRANE Dec 2013 #97

Yes..so you recognize paying your taxes isn't enough Blanket Statements Dec 2013 #98

You're doing the "all or nothing" argument again. And again I will tell you that both are needed CJCRANE Dec 2013 #99

No...I'm distinguishing between the 2 acts Blanket Statements Dec 2013 #100

Well to me that is an irrelevant distinction. Do you want to help people whose unemploment benefits CJCRANE Dec 2013 #103

Congress could grant UE for perpetuity Blanket Statements Dec 2013 #104

We're not going to agree. You have your interpretation and I have mine. CJCRANE Dec 2013 #107

Agreed Blanket Statements Dec 2013 #108

Morning, I do not think there is anyone on this board that thinks government is a total answer to jwirr Dec 2013 #121

I'm not arguing against government or for charity Blanket Statements Dec 2013 #124

Since our government is not a theocracy and was never meant to be one, Arkansas Granny Dec 2013 #11

To the hungry children, do you think it matters all that much how the food was paid for? world wide wally Dec 2013 #22

That's not the point. Paying taxes isn't charitable giving Blanket Statements Dec 2013 #27

It still feeds kids...so render unto Ceaser that which is Ceaser's...and just "maybe" something world wide wally Dec 2013 #32

But it doesn't alleviate your duty to your fellow man. Blanket Statements Dec 2013 #36

That would just be a bonus world wide wally Dec 2013 #42

I hope you're posting during your breaks at the food kitchen. Comrade Grumpy Dec 2013 #43

Why? Blanket Statements Dec 2013 #44

My definition of a civilized society includes more than your definition CJCRANE Dec 2013 #80

That would mean you recognize no personal Blanket Statements Dec 2013 #84

No, I don't. I pay taxes and give to charity. I prefer my taxes to go to unemployment benefits CJCRANE Dec 2013 #87

The fact that you give to charity means you Blanket Statements Dec 2013 #88

Most Americans want to extend benefits MannyGoldstein Dec 2013 #31

It is the republicans in the government and all those who support what they are doing that Maraya1969 Dec 2013 #33

Not the point Blanket Statements Dec 2013 #35

When you know that your taxes will go to help the poor and you refuse or try to stop it Maraya1969 Dec 2013 #45

Paying your taxes is a matter of law Blanket Statements Dec 2013 #46

And using tax loopholes and hiding money in other countries is a matter of choice too. Maraya1969 Dec 2013 #50

That's a matter of law Blanket Statements Dec 2013 #52

So what? ohheckyeah Dec 2013 #53

It's not what the bible is speaking to Blanket Statements Dec 2013 #55

As I said... ohheckyeah Dec 2013 #57

My point is, no matter what the government does to help the poor Blanket Statements Dec 2013 #58

Nobody said it did.... ohheckyeah Dec 2013 #59

Actually some did. And, again, you're missing the point Blanket Statements Dec 2013 #60

It matters to the ohheckyeah Dec 2013 #61

You're conflating the issues Blanket Statements Dec 2013 #62

That's just plain silly. ohheckyeah Dec 2013 #66

If you say so Blanket Statements Dec 2013 #70

you blue cat Dec 2013 #63

Prove it Blanket Statements Dec 2013 #64

Aren't we a government "of the people, by the people, and FOR the people"? world wide wally Dec 2013 #82

Nope Blanket Statements Dec 2013 #83

I think 4 hidden posts in 28 days proves your point. HangOnKids Dec 2013 #111

And a demand that those individuals be represented by persons who uphold those ideals. Barack_America Dec 2013 #109

After reading your posts ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2013 #118

Uhhh that wasn't what I was saying at all Blanket Statements Dec 2013 #119

faux christians really don't give a shit. politicians use Jesus to garner votes, not to help people. spanone Dec 2013 #12

The godless left wing rabble intrinsically wants to help people in job/health/money trouble Sheepshank Dec 2013 #24

i don't consider the left wing godless spanone Dec 2013 #71

The "Right" does n/t Sheepshank Dec 2013 #75

Help the needy SCVDem Dec 2013 #25

Free Market Jeebus wept. (nt) Moostache Dec 2013 #28

WORSE than not helping is PREVENTING help of the poor. ErikJ Dec 2013 #29

Because corporate money. woo me with science Dec 2013 #30

1 John 4:20 Mnemosyne Dec 2013 #34

this says a lot heaven05 Dec 2013 #37

Follow your doctors instructions and take your meds! whistler162 Dec 2013 #39

I'm certain the people sulphurdunn Dec 2013 #54

After all... kentuck Dec 2013 #65

+1... SomethingFishy Dec 2013 #67

And another verse from Luke MineralMan Dec 2013 #68

Did you not read the new conservative bible? TBF Dec 2013 #69

Recommend jsr Dec 2013 #73

God doesn't care. GeorgeGist Dec 2013 #76

After reading most of the replies, it seems most don't get the point Packerowner740 Dec 2013 #77

Not really. It seems to be one person with an ungenerous interpretation of scripture. CJCRANE Dec 2013 #81

Seems to me Blanket Statements is just trying to make different point . . . freedom fighter jh Dec 2013 #115

I don't get the separation. If the government is the most efficient way to help the needy CJCRANE Dec 2013 #122

The idea is that for an individual to help is in itself a good thing. freedom fighter jh Dec 2013 #125

There is a simple answer to your musing. CJCRANE Dec 2013 #126

agree, mostly freedom fighter jh Dec 2013 #127

I agree that helping others makes you a better person CJCRANE Dec 2013 #128

What I thought he/she was saying . . . freedom fighter jh Dec 2013 #129

But in relation to the issue in the OP, it is still a voluntary act CJCRANE Dec 2013 #130

Yep Jesus, he shutdown the govt right? Ate green eggs Rex Dec 2013 #94

Acts of the Apostles, Chapter 2 44-45 Bluenorthwest Dec 2013 #105

HUGE K & R !!! - Thank You !!! (Somebody Here Has 488 Posts...) WillyT Dec 2013 #110

Limbaugh 7 : 10 Kablooie Dec 2013 #112

I believe Christians are now using the "Buffet Bible." KansDem Dec 2013 #113

Thor wouldn't put up with this shit. Jester Messiah Dec 2013 #116

One day at the beach, a drowning man cries for help... CJCRANE Dec 2013 #123