General Discussion

ErikJ

(6,335 posts)

114. Thats absurd. They ultimately all started out poor

Tue Dec 31, 2013, 03:20 AM

Dec 2013

These people you name ultimately came from middle class incomes. Unless they came from royalty that is. You CANNOT get to the upper class without first being middle class at least. The Gates ancestors were not always rich. And I would claim that Paul Allen had more to do with Microsoft founding than Gates anyway. It was Allen who discovered tiny revolutionary Altair (invented and built by a middle class tinkerer!) and convinced Gates to drop out of Harvard and help him come to New Mexico and design software for it in the 70's.

And I would venture that as much as 95% of small business startups are begun by people in the middle class, whether they are mom and pops, restaurants, salons etc etc many of which have grown into huge businesses and corporations. You need to read Entrepreneur Magazine. Thousands of examples.

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There are exactly two ways to get rich [View all] jmowreader Dec 2013 OP

3) win a mega lottery Skittles Dec 2013 #1

Lottery winners pay taxes. And spend a lot of it. Archaic Dec 2013 #4

Now we're talking about the ways people *stay* rich demwing Dec 2013 #66

very true. liberal_at_heart Dec 2013 #2

J.K. Rowling, Michael Jordan, and Bruce Springsteen would disagree. n/t bluedigger Dec 2013 #3

maybe they can lend me some money to start a business. liberal_at_heart Dec 2013 #5

They all fall under #2. El_Johns Dec 2013 #13

No they dont. nt stevenleser Dec 2013 #15

Why do you think so? El_Johns Dec 2013 #25

He doesn't - he thinks not. Why do you think so? demwing Dec 2013 #65

He thinks so: that it's not. I asked the poster the question. El_Johns Dec 2013 #69

let's assume he disagreed because demwing Dec 2013 #99

They do... canuckledragger Dec 2013 #29

Those aren't friends demwing Dec 2013 #64

They actually do jmowreader Dec 2013 #30

If you are setting the bar that low, I guess. bluedigger Dec 2013 #45

I don't think they necessarily had a rich friend treestar Dec 2013 #55

Bullshit. Rawling was on public assistance when she started writing as a way to relieve her bluestate10 Dec 2013 #75

Her being on assistance is immaterial. ditto springsteen's alleged "poverty". El_Johns Dec 2013 #76

Huh? seattledo Dec 2013 #115

What do you think they're respective opinions of Warner/NBA/Columbia Records are? n/t Egalitarian Thug Dec 2013 #49

OK way 3 treestar Dec 2013 #54

And each of them was made super-rich by selling their talent to huge corporations. Egalitarian Thug Dec 2013 #83

Statistical outliers. YoungDemCA Dec 2013 #90

According to the OP there are NO outliers. Dr. Strange Dec 2013 #100

And they will remain the ONLY TWO ways to get rich jmowreader Jan 2014 #141

Most huge corporations started by middle class people-Nike, Apple, Walmart, Microsoft etc. ErikJ Dec 2013 #6

Phil Knight was the son of a lawyer turned publisher. Knight's father sold out El_Johns Dec 2013 #12

What about the hundreds of others? Very few created by supposed "job creators" ErikJ Dec 2013 #17

"Middle class tinkerers" with intelligence & Ivy League backgrounds. El_Johns Dec 2013 #19

I'd bet for every corporation started by Ivy Leaguer ErikJ Dec 2013 #24

You mentioned specific corporations. El_Johns Dec 2013 #26

And all started by middle class ErikJ Dec 2013 #28

I addressed your first list of "middle class" people; Steve Jobs was the only one who could El_Johns Dec 2013 #33

Garage tinkerers rarely get rich. jmowreader Dec 2013 #31

I heard only one of 2000 patents makes a profit. ErikJ Dec 2013 #47

It's a fact? Where's the study showing that? El_Johns Dec 2013 #58

Middle class? enlightenment Dec 2013 #57

Rich kid, Lower Middle Class kids, Rich kid, Very, Very Rich Kids. Egalitarian Thug Dec 2013 #82

So you SUPPORT the idea that tax cuts for the rich (job creators) WILL be good for job creation? ErikJ Dec 2013 #84

I didn't say anything remotely like that. Did you reply to the wrong post? Egalitarian Thug Dec 2013 #86

My WHOLE POINT is that 99% of our corporations were conceived by independent people ErikJ Dec 2013 #88

We agree on the cause and solutions to the problem. Where we disagree is your assertion that huge Egalitarian Thug Dec 2013 #93

Most if not all corporate founders are INDEPENDENT INNOVATORS and entrepreneurs. ErikJ Dec 2013 #94

Where are you getting this "tax cuts for the rich" crap? You are the only one talking about this Egalitarian Thug Dec 2013 #97

RW propaganda is that we have to cut taxes for the super-rich BECAUSE they are the "JOB CREATORS"! ErikJ Dec 2013 #98

OK, Let's talk about Edison. El_Johns Dec 2013 #108

Thanks for proving my point. A strong middle class is what creates innovators and entrepreneurs. ErikJ Dec 2013 #110

With backing from big money. Without that, bupkis for the good ideas. And big money doesn't El_Johns Dec 2013 #111

Thanks for making my point again. ALL of them ultimately CAME from the middle class FIRST. ErikJ Dec 2013 #112

No, they didn't. Bill Gates was the great-grandson & grandson of bankers, a birth member of El_Johns Dec 2013 #113

Thats absurd. They ultimately all started out poor ErikJ Dec 2013 #114

What in the hell are you talking about? Now you're claiming that because maybe Gates' El_Johns Dec 2013 #116

I said Paul Allen was true founder of Microsoft anyway. ErikJ Dec 2013 #117

OK, now Paul Allen is the founder of MS because Gates doesn't fit your storyline. El_Johns Dec 2013 #118

Oh yeah as if university employees in the 1960's were multi-millionaires. ErikJ Dec 2013 #119

Do you always need to resort to straw men? It bespeaks the lack of a strong argument. El_Johns Dec 2013 #120

NO university job pays upper middle class except for football coach!! ErikJ Dec 2013 #121

Sorry, you have no idea what you're talking about. El_Johns Dec 2013 #123

Youre stuck on temporary income--theyre ALL from MIDDLE CLASS STOCK ErikJ Dec 2013 #126

"stock" = yeah, they're all ultimately descended from poor cavemen. El_Johns Dec 2013 #128

Youre absurd. Is that why Google's founders RENTED A GARAGE? ErikJ Dec 2013 #131

You mean the poor guys had money to RENT a garage???? El_Johns Dec 2013 #133

Right. It takes money to make money. There are TONS of talented, brilliant people valerief Dec 2013 #138

More high-tech companies started with funding from other corporations: El_Johns Jan 2014 #139

You keep asserting that but I haven't seen any evidence but your list of corporations which El_Johns Dec 2013 #101

Youre obviously incapable of understanding the point. ErikJ Dec 2013 #106

Please point me to where I (or the OP) claimed that corporations were founded by other El_Johns Dec 2013 #109

I did however point out that your premise of average Americans starting huge corporations was wrong. Egalitarian Thug Dec 2013 #89

I am FOR business and corporations. They DO create jobs and a strong economy. My problem ErikJ Dec 2013 #92

For the last time, your claim that 99% of these huge corporations were started by people from Egalitarian Thug Dec 2013 #95

I dont care if the founder is an upper middle class millionaire's son or not. ErikJ Dec 2013 #96

Edison Electric was founded from the beginning with backing from Western Union, controlled El_Johns Dec 2013 #122

Even Vanderbilt came from middle class parents ErikJ Dec 2013 #124

Oh for god's sake. You're ridiculous. El_Johns Dec 2013 #127

Again, NOTHING compared to billionaire income. ErikJ Dec 2013 #129

You don't know bupkis about "ferry operators then" & dont pretend you do. Yeah, the El_Johns Dec 2013 #130

You sound a bit bitter now-what happened? ErikJ Dec 2013 #132

Straw men & personal attacks, it's all you got. It's been fun, but I'd rather argue with someone El_Johns Dec 2013 #134

YEAH? WELL GO TELL IT TO YOUR SHRINK! ErikJ Dec 2013 #135

You have a problem. Your alleged class origin (1%) is probably why you think people of your El_Johns Dec 2013 #136

Couple more... Demo_Chris Dec 2013 #7

Exactly. WillowTree Dec 2013 #11

This message was self-deleted by its author Electric Monk Dec 2013 #23

Lovely Defense Of The Weathly HangOnKids Dec 2013 #107

Without capital how do you market, develop, manufacture your product? As you acknowledge in El_Johns Dec 2013 #14

Convince the SBA or a bank or group of investors to fund it. They dont have to be friends. nt stevenleser Dec 2013 #16

"Friends" used loosely, & if they're "friends" it sure helps to get in the door. Point 2) still El_Johns Dec 2013 #18

No, point two doesn't stand. None of the SBA or Bank or group of investors is your friend. stevenleser Dec 2013 #20

Bill Gates was rich at birth, due to his $1 million dollar trust fund from grandpa. El_Johns Dec 2013 #21

That is not a defense of OPs point number two. It has thoroughly been debunked. nt stevenleser Dec 2013 #22

What has been thoroughly debunked? El_Johns Dec 2013 #27

Your number 4 is another way to phrase my number 2 jmowreader Dec 2013 #32

Statistically speaking... Orrex Dec 2013 #41

Perhaps I am overstating the case in terms of becoming RICH... Demo_Chris Dec 2013 #42

Have you seen the statistics for the number of small businesses that succeed? Orrex Dec 2013 #44

Answers (your questions in bold) Demo_Chris Dec 2013 #52

Most small businesses fail because of lack of capital & expertise. El_Johns Dec 2013 #59

"Business plan." Igel Dec 2013 #60

A business plan isn't expertise. Expertise includes, for example, $ to hire good lawyers. El_Johns Dec 2013 #61

Good post. nt Demo_Chris Dec 2013 #72

This message was self-deleted by its author Demo_Chris Dec 2013 #71

It's a sign of lack of capital. El_Johns Dec 2013 #73

You see - that is not the REAL issue/problem, this is: The Straight Story Dec 2013 #8

Jesus Cosmocat Dec 2013 #78

You can have both ways like Al Gore! n/t indie9197 Dec 2013 #9

Or George W Bush and his dad! n/t indie9197 Dec 2013 #10

It would seem like entertainers and athletes may not fall into either category. hughee99 Dec 2013 #34

Is rich the only objective? People in Spain started the Mondragon Cooperative by borrowing jtuck004 Dec 2013 #35

There's always cheating & stealing. baldguy Dec 2013 #36

Like the famous "middle-class tinkerer" Mark Zuckerberg. First he stole some people's ideas, then El_Johns Dec 2013 #37

Do you mean that pulling myself up by my bootstraps won't work? ... Little Star Dec 2013 #38

Untrue FBaggins Dec 2013 #39

The incomparable Kurt Vonnegut addressed this quite handily: Orrex Dec 2013 #40

"'Go where the rich and the powerful are,' I'd tell him, 'and learn their ways." = so true. El_Johns Dec 2013 #70

If you are good enough pipoman Dec 2013 #43

2a) Cozy government contracts JHB Dec 2013 #46

Way Number 3: Steal it. Egalitarian Thug Dec 2013 #48

bull - sounds like sour grapes DrDan Dec 2013 #50

"In a moment of inspiration, Blakely cut the feet off panty house, and Spanx was born". Nye Bevan Dec 2013 #51

This just isn't true. DanTex Dec 2013 #53

BS Boom Sound 416 Dec 2013 #56

When I saw the thread title... BlueCheese Dec 2013 #62

Complete and utter horseshit. nt woolldog Dec 2013 #63

There is only one way.... Luck n/t Taitertots Dec 2013 #67

Option 3: bank robber? L0oniX Dec 2013 #68

You are dead wrong. Some of the largest companies in the world were started up simply, bluestate10 Dec 2013 #74

Can you name some of these companies started in garages, funded solely out of earnings from El_Johns Dec 2013 #77

So the take away is marybourg Dec 2013 #79

Depends on what you mean by rich Major Nikon Dec 2013 #80

Why the American obsession with "getting rich"? moondust Dec 2013 #81

How about getting a good education then a good job taught_me_patience Dec 2013 #85

For 1%ers, you are probably mostly right. Incitatus Dec 2013 #87

"founders of Google, Facebook and Ebay" El_Johns Dec 2013 #105

Most rich people are born rich or at least upper-middle class... YoungDemCA Dec 2013 #91

Not true, a friend of mine started with a bucket of doc03 Dec 2013 #102

You couldnt be more wrong. nt darkangel218 Dec 2013 #103

I don't want you on my team. Throd Dec 2013 #104

Have a good idea, whose time has come. 1000words Dec 2013 #125

What about the stock market, or flipping houses? leeroysphitz Dec 2013 #137

That's how you get rich then poor then rich then poor then rich then poor... jmowreader Jan 2014 #142

That's cute Fla_Democrat Jan 2014 #140