General Discussion

ewagner

(18,967 posts)

40. Therein lies the trap...

Wed Jan 1, 2014, 12:58 PM

Jan 2014

....ultimately we end up with only two choices on the ballot...our guy or the other party's guy....

Even if our guy is only ideologically "the other guy light"...we have to vote for our guy...because if we don't, the other guy's party gets the majority and they get to set the agenda, stack committees, stack the courts and appointees of the bureauracy, decide who gets to introduce legislation as well as what legislation gets passed and which dies in committee.

Worse yet, if our guy bucks the caucus/party...there isn't any PAC money available to run for re-election in the next year so our guy has to carefully smooze the party to keep from getting hung out to dry every two years.

The campaign money seems to be the weak spot...and the caucus system itself needs major reform.

Until that time we have no choice but to vote for "our" party....even if it's not perfect.

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This message was self-deleted by its author [View all] paulbibeau Jan 2014 OP

I remain loyal to ideals, not party. Scuba Jan 2014 #1

+1000 Glassunion Jan 2014 #2

Yup. ScreamingMeemie Jan 2014 #8

Me too. Le Taz Hot Jan 2014 #10

That was certainly an eye opener, along with the Lieberman brigade. nt adirondacker Jan 2014 #267

Same here. nt City Lights Jan 2014 #12

Me too! bvar22 Jan 2014 #27

+1. "Loyalty" in politics is a line fed to fools so that they'll be useful idiots. Dash87 Jan 2014 #36

+1000. ^^^^^ GoneFishin Jan 2014 #284

Therein lies the trap... ewagner Jan 2014 #40

I like what you are saying. I would only like to expand on it. A Simple Game Jan 2014 #95

Accurate description...but... ewagner Jan 2014 #281

Totally agree. They will continue mind forking you as long as keep buying either type of milk. GoneFishin Jan 2014 #289

+1. Party is a means to an end, not an end in itself. n/t winter is coming Jan 2014 #53

Thomas Jefferson agrees. Tierra_y_Libertad Jan 2014 #85

Beautiful quote. Thanks. woo me with science Jan 2014 #113

Solid. paulbibeau Jan 2014 #115

Here is a quote from a non-slave owner that lives in our century XRubicon Jan 2014 #187

Yep. If the Democratic Party wants to support these ideals, then I'll support the Democratic Party. NuclearDem Jan 2014 #221

That is where I am. There truly is a greater danger. Modern republicans are that danger. nt bluestate10 Jan 2014 #321

the problem is FatBuddy Jan 2014 #3

And the election-spoiling begins. MineralMan Jan 2014 #4

Was about to say this exact thing thucythucy Jan 2014 #14

It's my pleasure. There's going to be more and more of this MineralMan Jan 2014 #20

"I'll be posting in every downer election thread I see" thucythucy Jan 2014 #21

Just because I agree with the op does not mean I am not going to vote Mojorabbit Jan 2014 #32

I'm sure you will vote. I'm sure everyone on DU will vote. MineralMan Jan 2014 #39

It's kinda hard to convince anyone to vote for the Democrat on the ticket... PoliticalPothead Jan 2014 #364

Which people is the Democrat not representing? MineralMan Jan 2014 #367

The people who... PoliticalPothead Jan 2014 #378

OK, thanks. MineralMan Jan 2014 #380

So, tell us who you do prefer, please. MineralMan Jan 2014 #403

ROFL! No, the poster doesn't have to go "district by district." woo me with science Jan 2014 #412

Superb answer. Actually, *the* answer. woo me with science Jan 2014 #410

+1000 PoliticalPothead Jan 2014 #422

I agree also. mountain grammy Jan 2014 #37

Then you had better make damn sure there is... 99Forever Jan 2014 #56

yes FatBuddy Jan 2014 #66

+10000000 woo me with science Jan 2014 #101

You'll do as you please, of course. MineralMan Jan 2014 #157

+8,749 Scuba Jan 2014 #169

That's why I DISenrolled from Democrat status joeunderdog Jan 2014 #331

Please point out... ljm2002 Jan 2014 #153

Hoo-rah! Pretzel_Warrior Jan 2014 #195

And the lowering of any expectations begins. Egalitarian Thug Jan 2014 #232

The Third Way knows it is shoveling predatory shit, and their own words prove it. woo me with science Jan 2014 #437

And with the complicity you endorse, there never will be. last1standing Jan 2014 #357

You will do as you please, I'm sure. MineralMan Jan 2014 #359

As will you. And we will both continue to advocate for our beliefs. last1standing Jan 2014 #361

You know what spoils elections? PowerToThePeople Jan 2014 #427

blech nt BlueToTheBone Jan 2014 #5

I haven't seen a f'n republicon I'd vote for madokie Jan 2014 #6

Bullpucks. Skidmore Jan 2014 #7

every year i wait for someone to set my soul afire dembotoz Jan 2014 #9

A proven, dupe/Collaborator path toward winning for the Bad Guys UTUSN Jan 2014 #11

Give us all a parliamentary system which constructs coalition governments... MrScorpio Jan 2014 #13

And they have to compromise to be part of the coalition! treestar Jan 2014 #16

the purpose of a party is to pull together to get as many elected officials treestar Jan 2014 #15

I don't think some are able to grasp the scope of the Democratic Party. NCTraveler Jan 2014 #397

I used to feel that way... lapfog_1 Jan 2014 #17

Idealist Nonsense that Hurts Self and Others is for the Cruel, the Stupid, and the Privileged alcibiades_mystery Jan 2014 #18

Who cares what you think? Bradical79 Jan 2014 #59

Yes ...if you are against the corporate 3rd way centrist right then you are a "Naderite" or Greenie. L0oniX Jan 2014 #71

+1, not just privledged, somewhat racist too. Look what 2010 did to voting rights in the US Exultant Democracy Jan 2014 #132

Please show us exactly where... ljm2002 Jan 2014 #171

Yes. I did not in fact say that. paulbibeau Jan 2014 #172

And in the meantime... ljm2002 Jan 2014 #159

Thanks for reality check Pretzel_Warrior Jan 2014 #196

"It's why the Naderites can barely scratch together 3% of the vote" Number23 Jan 2014 #252

So, trying to give the 99% an even break is dismissed a "hopeless ideal". winter is coming Jan 2014 #371

This message was self-deleted by its author paulbibeau Jan 2014 #19

Tell that to the 5 million Americans thucythucy Jan 2014 #22

Tell it LIKE IT IS! Great post! nt MADem Jan 2014 #31

FUD...nt SidDithers Jan 2014 #23

FUD on steroids....and I hope no one is naive enough to buy it. nt MADem Jan 2014 #33

Oh Sid. You can't quit me, can you? paulbibeau Jan 2014 #54

no Sid, this goes beyond FUD into straight up trollery... dionysus Jan 2014 #138

I vote issues and principles, not party and politician. Tierra_y_Libertad Jan 2014 #24

+1 woo me with science Jan 2014 #425

Brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrp! tabasco Jan 2014 #25

No, you're more like this... paulbibeau Jan 2014 #26

Well, this site isn't anypartyunderground longship Jan 2014 #28

Gee, DU is for those "hacks and fools" you seem to hate.... MADem Jan 2014 #29

+1000 Bobbie Jo Jan 2014 #73

Please show us exactly where... ljm2002 Jan 2014 #173

Seriously, please. Show us WHERE... paulbibeau Jan 2014 #176

It is possible to say something by inference. MADem Jan 2014 #209

"Inference" is what you would do as a reader. paulbibeau Jan 2014 #210

Oh boy--a grammar nazi! There was a thread about you today! MADem Jan 2014 #212

"Diction Nazi" paulbibeau Jan 2014 #215

Well, judging by your twitter account, you're a disruptor. That starts with "D" too. nt MADem Jan 2014 #268

I do love the hooplah, yes. Guilty. paulbibeau Jan 2014 #272

No, this isn't an "argument." It's a name-calling exercise that you acknowledge is giving you a few MADem Jan 2014 #275

This post combines a straw man argument, an ad hominem attack, and a conspiracy theory. paulbibeau Jan 2014 #276

No it doesn't. It tells it like it is. Too bad if you don't like it. MADem Jan 2014 #277

Your statement is demonstrably wrong. Here. Allow me... paulbibeau Jan 2014 #279

No, it's not wrong. By your OP and your twitter account, you've told us what you're about. MADem Jan 2014 #282

I admit nothing of the sort. paulbibeau Jan 2014 #283

Your posts aren't "causing a stir," they're "creating a record." MADem Jan 2014 #302

I am not walking back any comment at all. paulbibeau Jan 2014 #340

Sure, whatever you say. Keep it up! Pay no attention to your words in the OP! MADem Jan 2014 #351

I'm not whining. I'm not even a little upset. I'm enjoying this crap. paulbibeau Jan 2014 #363

Keep digging. MADem Jan 2014 #381

What comment did I make specifically that I am backing off from? paulbibeau Jan 2014 #388

You asked for it. Like I said, keep digging--you'll hit oil or water soon enough. MADem Jan 2014 #396

No, you're totally right. paulbibeau Jan 2014 #400

No, wait... I'm still right. paulbibeau Jan 2014 #401

No you aren't. And if multiple, rambling, excuse-making posts are the best you can do, MADem Jan 2014 #402

I suppose I'd rationalize it the same way to better validate a very adequate eighth-grade essay. LanternWaste Jan 2014 #408

Well you're more of a topic nazi... ljm2002 Jan 2014 #225

The OP danced close to the line, "insinuating" that MADem Jan 2014 #231

Not trying to sell you anything... ljm2002 Jan 2014 #234

I'm not the one peddling or cheerleading the "You stupid Democrats are hacks" meme. MADem Jan 2014 #239

"Try reading the whole TOS, in context." ljm2002 Jan 2014 #222

My name is Paul, so in a sense, I'm a Paulite. I like me! paulbibeau Jan 2014 #224

Doh, of course! :-) n/t ljm2002 Jan 2014 #226

That wasn't the only portion I excerpted. MADem Jan 2014 #233

It wasn't the ONLY part you excerpted... ljm2002 Jan 2014 #237

It was apropos to the post but you focused on it as though it was all I excerpted. MADem Jan 2014 #240

That is very broad and subjective nilesobek Jan 2014 #269

This one XRubicon Jan 2014 #413

Sooo, you are interpreting that to mean... ljm2002 Jan 2014 #417

This person is a professional writer XRubicon Jan 2014 #418

Don't forget to point out that William Pitt links to his own articles Luminous Animal Jan 2014 #436

You are right XRubicon Jan 2014 #439

So DU is only for party loyalists... ljm2002 Jan 2014 #227

DU is for people who adhere to the TOS, something you're apparently MADem Jan 2014 #229

Well you know... ljm2002 Jan 2014 #230

I generally try to avoid that sort of unpleasantness. MADem Jan 2014 #235

DUzy! DisgustipatedinCA Jan 2014 #423

Not sure what you find so funny, perhaps you can't count....? MADem Jan 2014 #432

ROFL! woo me with science Jan 2014 #431

Glad you're so easily amused! MADem Jan 2014 #434

Disloyalty is even more for hacks, fools, and operatives. gulliver Jan 2014 #30

Capitulation is as much a loss as struggling and losing Scootaloo Jan 2014 #104

Loyalty, like respect must be earned. Egalitarian Thug Jan 2014 #107

If the party leaves the voter.... AgingAmerican Jan 2014 #143

So criticism is disloyalty? ljm2002 Jan 2014 #175

I could swear Edward R Murrow said something about that, dissent confused with disloyalty. NuclearDem Jan 2014 #248

I think all of us here at DU agree that Democrats are preferable to Republicans. Dustlawyer Jan 2014 #34

+1 octoberlib Jan 2014 #162

Where the fuck am I? Better yet, where the fuck are you? lonestarnot Jan 2014 #35

I agree and I would add loyalty to country to that list alarimer Jan 2014 #38

Ah, the "Self-Centered" approach to politics. Nice. WinkyDink Jan 2014 #46

Right now creeksneakers2 Jan 2014 #50

Because, like the Republicans billh58 Jan 2014 #262

Tell that to the unpopular minority party baldguy Jan 2014 #41

You're confusing billh58 Jan 2014 #42

Been a Democrat for all of my adult life (since 1973). Sorry you think I'm a fool, a hack Rowdyboy Jan 2014 #43

Same here!! WinkyDink Jan 2014 #45

Some people here have a strong urge to lecture and belittle those they feel are below their "level" Rowdyboy Jan 2014 #58

Commoners abound, and we vote Big "D"! (I "liked Ike," but I was only three then! I learned fast!) WinkyDink Jan 2014 #140

Bravo. Bobbie Jo Jan 2014 #75

To the "Issues and Principles over Party" people: I trust the former never includes Republicans? WinkyDink Jan 2014 #44

It's easier to be a lazy cynic like yourself rather than putting in hard work for a party. great white snark Jan 2014 #47

Increasing joy is an indirect common liberal goal. ZombieHorde Jan 2014 #305

I know that Senator Sanders dotymed Jan 2014 #48

Sanders also has enough sense creeksneakers2 Jan 2014 #68

or heres an idea.. iamthebandfanman Jan 2014 #49

Nowhere in the piece do I endorse voting third party, or for Republicans. paulbibeau Jan 2014 #52

Your theory that Republicans are in some new mode and that they used to adapt Bluenorthwest Jan 2014 #64

No, but the GOP has gotten worse. Are you saying the GOP hasn't gotten worse? paulbibeau Jan 2014 #67

I'm saying when I was born they were already the worst. Bluenorthwest Jan 2014 #333

I've actually written specifically about the Dems and gay rights... paulbibeau Jan 2014 #69

This may not be your intention, but your "piece" comes off sounding like MADem Jan 2014 #94

I will vote for the democratic candidate rather than the republican without fail, but Vattel Jan 2014 #51

I'm still proud, loyal, if you will, to about 2/3rds of our democrats nightscanner59 Jan 2014 #55

Notice the "my friends" in the post HERVEPA Jan 2014 #57

+100 billh58 Jan 2014 #78

Ha--sounds like him, doesn't it? nt MADem Jan 2014 #307

Corporatists in both parties are ramping up for another con game. woo me with science Jan 2014 #60

when a politician shows fidelity and loyalty to the working class FatBuddy Jan 2014 #65

+10000 And at this point we need a record of action, rather than mere promises, woo me with science Jan 2014 #91

How they do it is called triangulation. zeemike Jan 2014 #61

Actually triangulation is more complaining to one to avoid dealing with the other. nolabear Jan 2014 #74

Well I chose to express it in it's simplest terms. zeemike Jan 2014 #86

Lying about intentions, and crying "lesser of two evils" where they can't get away with lying. woo me with science Jan 2014 #80

Thanks for that clip. zeemike Jan 2014 #89

You talk like disloyalty will bring positive change creeksneakers2 Jan 2014 #62

The party is driving itself to the right AgingAmerican Jan 2014 #145

The party isn't going right by itself creeksneakers2 Jan 2014 #185

It is being driven to the right by the third way AgingAmerican Jan 2014 #192

The "DLC" is in boxes at the Clinton Library. MADem Jan 2014 #336

DLC = third way AgingAmerican Jan 2014 #370

They aren't the same thing. nt MADem Jan 2014 #372

The Democratic Leadership Council (DLC) AgingAmerican Jan 2014 #384

Did you read what you just cited? MADem Jan 2014 #393

You sound like a third way fan AgingAmerican Jan 2014 #394

Real nice. You are factually inaccurate, so you make snide accusations about me because MADem Jan 2014 #398

Then dont get AgingAmerican Jan 2014 #424

Who's bent out of shape? Sounds like YOU are! MADem Jan 2014 #429

So you are a DLC fanboy? AgingAmerican Jan 2014 #443

How old are you? 22 and angst-ridden? "Fanboy?" Jesus. MADem Jan 2014 #444

Same methods, same agenda. same advocates, and most importantly, same money. Egalitarian Thug Jan 2014 #426

Wow, what a charming accusation! MADem Jan 2014 #428

When the facts are against you, argue the law. Egalitarian Thug Jan 2014 #430

Grow up. I mean it. Grow up. The DLC is dead, and flogging it as though it's a zombie MADem Jan 2014 #445

Seems to me that that an adult would have the vision to see what is and proceed Egalitarian Thug Jan 2014 #446

Where am I not "proceeding from reality?" I'm not the one making the boogie-man MADem Jan 2014 #448

So it is disloyal to critize? ljm2002 Jan 2014 #177

No creeksneakers2 Jan 2014 #183

You say... ljm2002 Jan 2014 #191

"Administration" refers to Obama creeksneakers2 Jan 2014 #255

My mistake... ljm2002 Jan 2014 #259

YOU FOOL! Don't you know that to criticize is to call for not voting? L0oniX Jan 2014 #197

Disloyalty? Perhaps you should rethink who owes loyalty to whom. last1standing Jan 2014 #362

A variety of people put them in office creeksneakers2 Jan 2014 #420

What's nauseating is you making such a fallacious strawman argument. last1standing Jan 2014 #421

Common sense vs. nonsense bobduca Jan 2014 #435

anyone who subscribes to the idea of binary opposition of political faction in this country FatBuddy Jan 2014 #63

YOU FOOLS! Join the Centrist Party where rinos and dinos are welcome. L0oniX Jan 2014 #70

From the Democratic Underground Mission Statement.... George II Jan 2014 #72

The only loyalty I have is to those who are loyal to me. Autumn Jan 2014 #76

So what are your colleagues of the left colleagues of? nolabear Jan 2014 #77

The Third Way was never a populist movement. It is a Koch-bankrolled, woo me with science Jan 2014 #84

So, if someone disagrees with YOU, then they are jazzimov Jan 2014 #93

And of course the responses of the Corporate Propaganda Brigade *begin* woo me with science Jan 2014 #79

But, they're "not as bad" as repub corporatists. Like Strychnine is "not as bad" as Arsenic. Tierra_y_Libertad Jan 2014 #82

A candidate? Really? MineralMan Jan 2014 #83

Can someone win in those districts without Vattel Jan 2014 #97

I'm betting you have no knowledge whatever about those two districts, MineralMan Jan 2014 #149

But they can't win! Egalitarian Thug Jan 2014 #160

Excellent smackdown of Third Way sophistry. woo me with science Jan 2014 #415

Message auto-removed Name removed Jan 2014 #81

And the influx continues... woo me with science Jan 2014 #87

Message auto-removed Name removed Jan 2014 #90

Welcome back! bobduca Jan 2014 #92

Well, well, well. nt woo me with science Jan 2014 #102

boing! I like to call it "electoral slut-shaming" MisterP Jan 2014 #122

Message auto-removed Name removed Jan 2014 #144

It's funny when you start out with dire warnings about an orchestrated campaign of posting woo me with science Jan 2014 #99

This thread is getting so meta it's like the Matrix, and I LOVE IT. paulbibeau Jan 2014 #103

We are unplugging, woo me with science Jan 2014 #106

A very commendable resolution. ucrdem Jan 2014 #116

You misunderstand, grasshopper. We're taking the party back. woo me with science Jan 2014 #290

+1 Bobbie Jo Jan 2014 #295

Message auto-removed Name removed Jan 2014 #147

Yes. Spies everywhere. paulbibeau Jan 2014 #88

Yes and starting right on schedule. ucrdem Jan 2014 #114

We are ever and always heading into an election and elections are supposedly TheKentuckian Jan 2014 #137

Um....why do I see a thread like this on DEMOCRATIC Underground? nt Jamaal510 Jan 2014 #96

Because Democrats don't act like Republicans? zeemike Jan 2014 #98

Bull. If you switch a few words in the OP it reads *exactly* what a Republican BlueCaliDem Jan 2014 #310

If a teabagger says it's wrong to kill civilians with drone strikes, does that make it right? paulbibeau Jan 2014 #311

Problem is, they never do. BlueCaliDem Jan 2014 #314

Do you think you have to be an isolationist to oppose the drone program? paulbibeau Jan 2014 #318

I AM an American. So yeah, I've met an American. BlueCaliDem Jan 2014 #328

Replies, in order: paulbibeau Jan 2014 #337

My responses: BlueCaliDem Jan 2014 #342

Counter-responses paulbibeau Jan 2014 #345

Good thing we were in the minority 2003-2005 Capt. Obvious Jan 2014 #322

Vietnam. People totally got behind that crap for awhile. paulbibeau Jan 2014 #324

Because the Democratic Party, and the democratic process, have been hijacked. woo me with science Jan 2014 #100

Here's how this thread is dividing up... paulbibeau Jan 2014 #105

See Post #94 billh58 Jan 2014 #110

Totally did. Thanks for the link though! paulbibeau Jan 2014 #112

... but none of that is my problem. It's yours. paulbibeau Jan 2014 #117

It's what the "centrists" do. 99Forever Jan 2014 #119

Yes. paulbibeau Jan 2014 #121

Speaking of hacks, billh58 Jan 2014 #125

It's not an excuse. It's a condemnation. paulbibeau Jan 2014 #127

I think the outraged response you are getting... ljm2002 Jan 2014 #204

Definitely. paulbibeau Jan 2014 #205

From your Twitter account: OilemFirchen Jan 2014 #211

I love what I do. paulbibeau Jan 2014 #214

Trust me when I say this. OilemFirchen Jan 2014 #219

Well, he outed himself with that comment, make no mistake. MADem Jan 2014 #257

This one outs himself billh58 Jan 2014 #258

What in hell do they get out of it, I wonder? MADem Jan 2014 #261

He believes that billh58 Jan 2014 #265

You understand your argument here depends on mind-reading, right? paulbibeau Jan 2014 #271

He also believes billh58 Jan 2014 #288

A job and a following, all because of his "pithy" insults to the community here on DU! MADem Jan 2014 #292

I thought I was too clever by half. paulbibeau Jan 2014 #296

You are that, too. And, by your own admission, you love the drama. MADem Jan 2014 #304

I do. But so do you. You're not leaving, right? paulbibeau Jan 2014 #309

I was here when DU first went online. I'm not going anywhere. MADem Jan 2014 #315

Exactly, this one billh58 Jan 2014 #316

Because you can't get it hidden or locked. ucrdem Jan 2014 #109

I vote Democratic, yet I am not loyal to the Democratic party AgingAmerican Jan 2014 #148

because an oft cited and admired(here on DU) and dead-on people politician isn't a Democrat? Agony Jan 2014 #156

Because Progressives are welcome on DU? L0oniX Jan 2014 #188

Because standing by while the party shifts to the right does it no service. NuclearDem Jan 2014 #223

^^ This. n/t winter is coming Jan 2014 #385

Not all Democratic Party members are Democrats PowerToThePeople Jan 2014 #108

And so is party disloyalty, and so are a number of unmentionable intentions. ucrdem Jan 2014 #111

This idea of party loyalty is very big with your crowd, isn't it? n/t Egalitarian Thug Jan 2014 #182

The Dem Party is the only thing standing between us and total devastation rusty fender Jan 2014 #118

According to the OP, billh58 Jan 2014 #134

The Democratic party has been acting like the Republican party.. AgingAmerican Jan 2014 #150

Fuck Ron Paul! nt msanthrope Jan 2014 #120

^^ thread win ^^ ucrdem Jan 2014 #123

Ew. Really? 127 year-old creationists are your thing? paulbibeau Jan 2014 #124

Apparently...they are yours. I note you aren't blog flogging today...What gives? nt msanthrope Jan 2014 #126

Oh, he is billh58 Jan 2014 #129

Wow....the Clenis envy shines right through. nt msanthrope Jan 2014 #131

Seriously though... Why do you keep reading? paulbibeau Jan 2014 #135

LOL! billh58 Jan 2014 #142

Nope. Is criticism of the drone war and 4th Amendment violations not allowed on DU? paulbibeau Jan 2014 #130

Your stuff is a scream.....the Clinton fantasy you posted upthread is so cringingly awkward msanthrope Jan 2014 #136

So you continually read things you don't like, but you do it ironically. Ok. paulbibeau Jan 2014 #139

WTF? OilemFirchen Jan 2014 #216

Nailed it... SidDithers Jan 2014 #244

All you have to do is glance at the names high fiving this thread to know that it is a MASSIVE Number23 Jan 2014 #253

You should read the Sotomayor thread for great moments in asshattery.....truly. nt msanthrope Jan 2014 #254

Two things... paulbibeau Jan 2014 #270

Some familiar, billh58 Jan 2014 #260

Like a primitive reflex. woo me with science Jan 2014 #339

I'm only quoting EarlG ....... msanthrope Jan 2014 #344

REALLY? You are back for the third time? paulbibeau Jan 2014 #346

Is that something you would write to a man? nt msanthrope Jan 2014 #354

I know crazy cat men. paulbibeau Jan 2014 #356

My...that was rather defensive. I am now a crazy cat woman? Thank you for the msanthrope Jan 2014 #360

Well, I can vouch for the crazy part. paulbibeau Jan 2014 #368

Calling another DUer 'crazy' is a slur against people who have mental health issues....it is msanthrope Jan 2014 #376

Is freakishly obsessive okay? paulbibeau Jan 2014 #386

I mean, I want to use whatever term is proper and not offensive to you... paulbibeau Jan 2014 #387

If this is what your political philosophy offers women, I think you've done the Democratic msanthrope Jan 2014 #389

Sigh. Okay, I'll bite. I'll hate myself. But okay... paulbibeau Jan 2014 #390

Oh no..I'm not stopping this train. Please proceed, Paul. nt msanthrope Jan 2014 #391

What? paulbibeau Jan 2014 #392

That was just sad. nt woo me with science Jan 2014 #347

But kind of awesome too. paulbibeau Jan 2014 #349

I suspect it's contractual obligation... woo me with science Jan 2014 #355

If you think me a paid troll, then why not alert the owners of the site? nt msanthrope Jan 2014 #377

Why would I do that? woo me with science Jan 2014 #405

I thought you were taking the Party back? nt msanthrope Jan 2014 #407

You mean by trying to remove your Ron Paul posts? woo me with science Jan 2014 #409

What are you talking about? You've no power to remove a damn thing on this site. nt msanthrope Jan 2014 #411

Watching you get het up three words is pretty amusing. Thank you. nt msanthrope Jan 2014 #350

It's not a reflex so much as a security blanket. winter is coming Jan 2014 #379

To sum up 2010 wasn't bad enough lets fuck 2014 and the USA with it. Primary if need be Exultant Democracy Jan 2014 #128

Yay, another "stay home" thread... sagat Jan 2014 #133

This message was self-deleted by its author woo me with science Jan 2014 #141

Cept nowhere does imply staying home AgingAmerican Jan 2014 #152

THANK YOU. paulbibeau Jan 2014 #155

Please show us exactly where... ljm2002 Jan 2014 #178

And the Corporate Brigade makes post after post predicting a "spoil." woo me with science Jan 2014 #146

+1000 n/t ljm2002 Jan 2014 #179

+1 They know what is coming just as well as we do. Egalitarian Thug Jan 2014 #184

^^^ Excellent ^^^ L0oniX Jan 2014 #189

Message auto-removed Name removed Jan 2014 #151

Corporate propaganda can NOT attack from the left PowerToThePeople Jan 2014 #154

Message auto-removed Name removed Jan 2014 #161

You're really stretching the definition of "FactBased" aren't you? paulbibeau Jan 2014 #165

Message auto-removed Name removed Jan 2014 #166

That didn't work. paulbibeau Jan 2014 #168

Thank you so much... ljm2002 Jan 2014 #180

Message auto-removed Name removed Jan 2014 #181

Corporations attack from the left? OMG LMFAO L0oniX Jan 2014 #190

Message auto-removed Name removed Jan 2014 #193

speaking of buffoons bobduca Jan 2014 #198

Message auto-removed Name removed Jan 2014 #199

Also familiar with the term MIRT apparently... n/t bobduca Jan 2014 #200

Message auto-removed Name removed Jan 2014 #201

Welcome back n/t bobduca Jan 2014 #202

Not voting against Republicans is for idiots only. nt geek tragedy Jan 2014 #158

I get the OP's point, but yours is the practical position. Squinch Jan 2014 #251

I sympathize with the frustrations with the Democratic party. geek tragedy Jan 2014 #332

My loyalty is to the stance on issues but I am also practical. If there is no chance of a 3rd party jwirr Jan 2014 #163

Loyalty Oaths are ever so democratic. Or, is that Democratic? Tierra_y_Libertad Jan 2014 #164

I really want both terms to be the same. And I will not give up on that. paulbibeau Jan 2014 #167

Tsk. Tsk. You must think words are supposed to mean something. Tierra_y_Libertad Jan 2014 #170

Weird, huh? paulbibeau Jan 2014 #174

+10000 See post 217 woo me with science Jan 2014 #266

I'm voting dem if one runs in my district, I don't care what they stand for gwheezie Jan 2014 #186

"I don't care what they stand for"! woo me with science Jan 2014 #207

Good luck with that. Maybe you should Pretzel_Warrior Jan 2014 #194

The 99 percent is being destroyed by corporate/Third Way/Republican collusion. woo me with science Jan 2014 #203

+1000000000000 nt Zorra Jan 2014 #208

The real solution is a grass roots groundswell of voting support for progressives steve2470 Jan 2014 #206

Start at the local level tabbycat31 Jan 2014 #247

For those of you who are still reading, I'd like to double-down on the controversy... paulbibeau Jan 2014 #213

:) woo me with science Jan 2014 #285

I'm glad you liked that... paulbibeau Jan 2014 #286

This message was self-deleted by its author paulbibeau Jan 2014 #286

The whole concept of "loyalty" is corrosive. winter is coming Jan 2014 #217

Very solid point. I wish I'd written it. paulbibeau Jan 2014 #218

^^^^^^^ Superb, important post ^^^^^^^^^ woo me with science Jan 2014 #238

Bravo! nt pecwae Jan 2014 #274

Agreed. +1000 n/t GoneFishin Jan 2014 #383

I don't know in exactly what world you live -- but I live in a solidly Dem town in the middle struggle4progress Jan 2014 #220

You know who else party loyalty is for? Anyone who's accepted the DU Terms of Service. TroglodyteScholar Jan 2014 #228

Supporting the party requires cleaning it of corruption. woo me with science Jan 2014 #236

Ralphie, is that you? Hekate Jan 2014 #241

ok gotta ask, who's Ralphie ? nt steve2470 Jan 2014 #243

Nader...nt SidDithers Jan 2014 #246

ah yea thanks nt steve2470 Jan 2014 #249

Considering the source, I assume Nader. nt truebluegreen Jan 2014 #327

I heart you. Luminous Animal Jan 2014 #242

May I ask about your involvement at local level? tabbycat31 Jan 2014 #245

This is what I was trying to get at/nt gwheezie Jan 2014 #256

I wish more of DU were like this tabbycat31 Jan 2014 #263

Good point here. paulbibeau Jan 2014 #273

I worked in VA in 2012 (keep wanting to say last year) tabbycat31 Jan 2014 #334

Really? Agschmid Jan 2014 #250

I'm loyal to whoever isn't attacking my family and other minorities. NCLefty Jan 2014 #264

No ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2014 #278

Let's focus... paulbibeau Jan 2014 #280

At the risk of being called all sorts of un-Democratical ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2014 #298

And you and I are in the majority in this country, 1SBM. BlueCaliDem Jan 2014 #313

I don't think the majority of folks calling for ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2014 #325

How heinous an act would "our side" have to commit before you would object? GoneFishin Jan 2014 #291

On the one hand ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2014 #301

Ron Paul is a lunatic... paulbibeau Jan 2014 #308

We agree ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2014 #320

No program at all would be infinitely better than blowing up wedding parties and town meetings. n/t GoneFishin Jan 2014 #366

Okay, if that's what you want to believe ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2014 #375

Then you don't understand or care to know about "signature strikes" or "double taps". n/t GoneFishin Jan 2014 #382

Ron Paul again. How predictable...and how sad. woo me with science Jan 2014 #329

Look at the eloquence of the people arguing loyalty to principle vs. the inarticulateness of Party Romulox Jan 2014 #293

I'm glad you think so. paulbibeau Jan 2014 #299

So, do you stay home or vote Repub/other party often? XRubicon Jan 2014 #330

I'm not voting for the pro-drone strike, anti-abortion restriction party. Nice try, though. nt Romulox Jan 2014 #404

Staying home then? XRubicon Jan 2014 #406

Very articulate argument... XRubicon Jan 2014 #414

Party loyalty fadedrose Jan 2014 #294

"Gilded Age version of Skynet" Capt. Obvious Jan 2014 #297

God bless you. paulbibeau Jan 2014 #300

Agree Capt. Obvious Jan 2014 #306

+1 There are little gems like that all through the thread. woo me with science Jan 2014 #416

I sometimes think all loyalty is bad. ZombieHorde Jan 2014 #303

Party loyalty is for politicians who actually care Progressive dog Jan 2014 #312

Ha! "That's why Jefferson first complained about them and then formed one. " MADem Jan 2014 #317

The inability to recognize clear danger leads to extinction. bluestate10 Jan 2014 #319

Okay. I agree with those three statements. Now what? paulbibeau Jan 2014 #323

Agreed and you are reinforcing the point that the OP is making, so thanks! nt Agony Jan 2014 #341

I especially agree with your caption. I agree with the remainder too, except I would add GoneFishin Jan 2014 #369

Regarding the above Updates, I seem to have all the right people on Ignore. truebluegreen Jan 2014 #326

So you don't advocate staying home and do choose best candidate right? XRubicon Jan 2014 #335

Did your blog traffic go up? Bet you picked up a few Twitter followers too XRubicon Jan 2014 #338

s'ok paulbibeau Jan 2014 #343

You dont have an answer for my question above? XRubicon Jan 2014 #348

When I said "s'ok" I meant, "It's ok." Minor traffic. Some, but not much. paulbibeau Jan 2014 #352

Sorry, look at post 335 XRubicon Jan 2014 #353

Ok. paulbibeau Jan 2014 #358

So your voting record is indistinguishable from a hack, fool or operative? XRubicon Jan 2014 #373

Totally. paulbibeau Jan 2014 #374

Repeating superb post 217 by winter is coming: woo me with science Jan 2014 #365

I like what you said... NCTraveler Jan 2014 #395

Good points bobduca Jan 2014 #433

I think the "loyalists" are extremely important to the party. NCTraveler Jan 2014 #438

"They are the true disruptors" bobduca Jan 2014 #441

I think we are really close on the way we view things. NCTraveler Jan 2014 #442

Thank you. woo me with science Jan 2014 #440

Party loyalty is also for those who want to get things done... Orsino Jan 2014 #399

EJ Dionne has a good editorial on the reemergence of a Democratic left Gothmog Jan 2014 #419

How about Union loyalty? treestar Jan 2014 #447