General Discussion

truth2power

(8,219 posts)

39. Medicare has an overhead of about 1.5%. Most HMOs have overheads ranging from 15-20%...

Wed Jan 1, 2014, 01:22 PM

Jan 2014

I read this about a week ago. Can't remember where.

We need single payer. The problems with the ACA will be massive, and will surface in time (I'm not talking about the website problems).

A While back I posted a link to an article from Truthout, (10/30/2013) titled "Obamacare: The Biggest Insurance Scam in History", by Kevin Zeese and Margaret Flowers. It was a cogent article about what the pitfalls ACTUALLY are, and caused me to conclude that many people who are enrolled are going to suffer buyer's remorse. It's only a matter of time.

Predictably, it was attacked by those whose job it is to support the unsupportable. AFAIK no one actually addressed any of the points in the article, but instead engaged in attacking the messenger and/or leaving drive-by comments that contributed absolutely nothing to the conversation. That this passes for 'discussion' here is really shameful. I would have liked to have someone refute the claims made in the article, if possible.

I can be patient, though. It will all come out in the wash, and then maybe a real discussion can be had.

Edit history

Please sign in to view edit histories.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

218 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

Ugh, I just read ANOTHER post calling for single payer [View all] MannyGoldstein Jan 2014 OP

I trust you forgot the sarcasm thingy. niyad Jan 2014 #1

I propose creation of the :Manny: tag Kennah Jan 2014 #166

What ya think? DeSwiss Jan 2014 #200

Dear Gaia, THAT is scary. We're all mice, Manny is the cat, and he's toying with us! Kennah Jan 2014 #218

You do realize it's already happening? Benton D Struckcheon Jan 2014 #2

They'll need President Hillary to approve it in 2017 MannyGoldstein Jan 2014 #3

Love that tongue in your cheek, MannyGoldstein... MrMickeysMom Jan 2014 #19

The solutions are not that difficult to do tblue Jan 2014 #128

Pfft. Benton D Struckcheon Jan 2014 #37

Manny, I hate to disagree with you but Hillary supports Mandated Insurance/Romney Care. The kind sabrina 1 Jan 2014 #189

Yes. That was one of the things that distinguished them from each other during the primary. merrily Jan 2014 #196

Hillary may have her faults blue14u Jan 2014 #202

Vermont was already planning it Doctor_J Jan 2014 #44

A few years. Benton D Struckcheon Jan 2014 #69

When it first rolled out the 3rd way Dems were happily predicting "a couple generations" Doctor_J Jan 2014 #88

It is still three years before the first waiver can be sought, I think you are being optimistic TheKentuckian Jan 2014 #129

So, five years after that. Benton D Struckcheon Jan 2014 #145

Your lips to God's ears but I suspect you greatly underestimate the forces of entropy and TheKentuckian Jan 2014 #176

Talking dollars and cents only. No pie in the sky needed. Benton D Struckcheon Jan 2014 #177

That is an excellent point. truedelphi Jan 2014 #203

Manny is like arguing against medical marijuana because it's not ending the war on drugs. joshcryer Jan 2014 #126

And here in Washington Kennah Jan 2014 #167

In Canada Manitoba under NDP gov't (explicitly to the left of the Liberals) delrem Jan 2014 #155

i'll give this two thirds of a rec. nt xchrom Jan 2014 #4

nice reply :) DontTreadOnMe Jan 2014 #64

LOVE manny. nt xchrom Jan 2014 #85

Me too. Enthusiast Jan 2014 #91

Very sensible of you, Manny. Laelth Jan 2014 #5

Yes, maybe if she'd had the gavel when ObamaRomneyHeritageFoundationCare passed MannyGoldstein Jan 2014 #6

The good thing about the future... reACTIONary Jan 2014 #102

The House wasn't the problem then jeff47 Jan 2014 #186

How many votes did ObamaCare get in the Senate. MannyGoldstein Jan 2014 #193

There were actually multiple bills jeff47 Jan 2014 #210

Lieberman's vote was needed for cloture, not for passage. merrily Jan 2014 #198

It matters when the D's weren't willing to neuter the filibuster. jeff47 Jan 2014 #211

It would be just about like it was the first time she had the gavel Doctor_J Jan 2014 #52

The first time she held the gavel, she first bottled up health care reform in committees, Egalitarian Thug Jan 2014 #93

Because there's only one body in Congress jeff47 Jan 2014 #187

Um, before the handle of the gavel was even warm in her hand she took impeachment Doctor_J Jan 2014 #214

Nice subject change. jeff47 Jan 2014 #215

Really? The post to which I responded said that things will be different if Pelosi Doctor_J Jan 2014 #216

And it can't be just a majority of 99% postulater Jan 2014 #7

Hey look, a 2013 model outrage widget. JoePhilly Jan 2014 #8

Vermont...nt SidDithers Jan 2014 #9

Stupid hippies. MannyGoldstein Jan 2014 #11

Wrong. The HHS grants said waivers. joshcryer Jan 2014 #130

Sorry, thanks for the catch MannyGoldstein Jan 2014 #131

Guess what Sid. 99Forever Jan 2014 #13

say what???? handmade34 Jan 2014 #21

Yeah... 99Forever Jan 2014 #24

Rise up Vermont. Canada is coming for you. L0oniX Jan 2014 #56

*word* 99Forever Jan 2014 #58

Would you say the same about Colorado and marijuana? joshcryer Jan 2014 #127

Vermont only did that because they don't understand... Demo_Chris Jan 2014 #45

and soon...all the OTHER states with socialist senators will follow Doctor_J Jan 2014 #55

Exactly. Vermont is YEARS AHEAD of EVERY other state. n/t Dawgs Jan 2014 #75

Crafty Bastards! Damn you, Peter Shumlin! We won't forget this! Kennah Jan 2014 #169

We need to call it medicare for all and not single payer. iandhr Jan 2014 #10

"Don't make my Medicare into a big government program!" CTyankee Jan 2014 #26

A tea party rally I think. iandhr Jan 2014 #28

"Keep the government out of my Medicare" SharonAnn Jan 2014 #41

Keep the government out of my Medicare FOR ALL! Kennah Jan 2014 #170

Thom Hartmann uses the phrase "Medicare Part E--FOR EVERYONE!" Kennah Jan 2014 #171

Yes we do need to call blue14u Jan 2014 #201

I agree ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2014 #12

Good point! MannyGoldstein Jan 2014 #14

Good Point! 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2014 #18

Sanders: Single Payer Never Had A Chance ProSense Jan 2014 #29

It never had a chance with our current party leadership... Demo_Chris Jan 2014 #47

Let me ProSense Jan 2014 #62

Reid's "We never had that" is deceptive. We DID have 60 in the Senate... Demo_Chris Jan 2014 #77

Reid? The quote is from Senator Sanders. n/t ProSense Jan 2014 #78

Which changes nothing I said... Demo_Chris Jan 2014 #79

Why did you say Reid? There ProSense Jan 2014 #80

If they don't owe me anything, they do not deserve my vote... Demo_Chris Jan 2014 #107

You ProSense Jan 2014 #114

I support Liberal Principles. nt Demo_Chris Jan 2014 #119

Like expanding Medicaid? n/t ProSense Jan 2014 #123

Yes, though not at the price of CORPORATIST Insurance Mandates. nt Demo_Chris Jan 2014 #136

Hey, sometimes you don't get everything you want. ProSense Jan 2014 #137

Nope, though if I were an insurance or banking or oil exec I damn sure would. nt Demo_Chris Jan 2014 #141

Nope ProSense Jan 2014 #142

Some here dont want to give you a straight answer because they would rhett o rick Jan 2014 #133

And more, that they embrace these folks.... Demo_Chris Jan 2014 #139

+ a billion. Nailed hard. solarhydrocan Jan 2014 #83

Did they even try? They did not. Enthusiast Jan 2014 #94

Neither did Blanche Lincoln - the White House's choice for the 2010 AR senate race Doctor_J Jan 2014 #115

They see, they just don't want to see. nt Demo_Chris Jan 2014 #140

Perception is like filter. We filter things based on our preconceptions Enthusiast Jan 2014 #182

Just confirming: Your goal is Medicare for All? grahamhgreen Jan 2014 #204

Having a sufficient majority to pass legislation Ms. Toad Jan 2014 #53

Good point! Progressive dog Jan 2014 #165

Seriously? You're gonna pretend Lieberman would have voted for single-payer? (nt) jeff47 Jan 2014 #188

We. Didn't. Need. His. Vote. MannyGoldstein Jan 2014 #191

Bingo! ctsnowman Jan 2014 #206

Yes, we did. jeff47 Jan 2014 #209

You realize that is not the goal of DU, don't you? WowSeriously Jan 2014 #184

Of course we need to move that direction... SHRED Jan 2014 #15

Kick the bums out ProSense Jan 2014 #16

Uh, Manny...two thirds is more than a majority Demeter Jan 2014 #17

The 2/3s may be a majority ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2014 #89

The top 10%...of which our "representatives" are members Doctor_J Jan 2014 #92

That's a "math trick", isn't it? MannyGoldstein Jan 2014 #132

I always say, "don't let the perfect be the enemy of the corrupt complicated and inadequate." Warren Stupidity Jan 2014 #20

Love your post. You give good snark! Divernan Jan 2014 #60

lol Love it. ctsnowman Jan 2014 #207

Damn that democracy.... paleotn Jan 2014 #22

We'll get there madokie Jan 2014 #23

Well, when you have asshole republicons running and getting elected with Ds behind their names kath Jan 2014 #31

Exactly. treestar Jan 2014 #35

Not happening, because . . . HughBeaumont Jan 2014 #25

Wow, two thirds? That has NO CHANCE of passing. And I know math! n-t Logical Jan 2014 #27

Don't worry. Hope and Change are on the way! Fuddnik Jan 2014 #30

uhm. either something is wrong with your post or, my math skills suck. Tuesday Afternoon Jan 2014 #32

It is your math skills, I am sure. Curmudgeoness Jan 2014 #150

If they want it they have to vote for Congresspeople who will vote for it treestar Jan 2014 #33

I seem to remember lots and lots of people voting for it in 2008 Doctor_J Jan 2014 #51

Newsflash the world was not going to stop in 2008 treestar Jan 2014 #76

it didn't stop, but it did collapse. Pretending that the President came into Egalitarian Thug Jan 2014 #99

They did win treestar Jan 2014 #106

Really? Perhaps you would name one of these "better mandates"? Egalitarian Thug Jan 2014 #125

FDR and LBJ treestar Jan 2014 #138

Read it again. I wrote in 30 years. And reagan didn't get the legislature either, yet somehow Egalitarian Thug Jan 2014 #148

They were promised a Medicare-like option for HC Doctor_J Jan 2014 #111

Superb post. woo me with science Jan 2014 #135

You are promised nothing but support for those things treestar Jan 2014 #143

It's discouraging. I think the 3rd way dems and fan club actually can't see how this Doctor_J Jan 2014 #154

And from where are these candidates coming from? The Party isn't going to let just any old Egalitarian Thug Jan 2014 #98

We are the party treestar Jan 2014 #103

LOL! Yeah, right. You give it a try, those of us that have seen the beast from inside Egalitarian Thug Jan 2014 #121

If you're that convinced that is how it is and how it always will be treestar Jan 2014 #144

So, you're not going to. What a shock... Egalitarian Thug Jan 2014 #151

Not going to what? treestar Jan 2014 #153

I have always trusted you Third Way Manny. zeemike Jan 2014 #34

Medicare - 28% of beneficiaries choose private health Advantage plans; drugs are private insurance Hoyt Jan 2014 #36

I've had Mom on an "Advantage" plan for years. SoapBox Jan 2014 #40

I will probably choose one in a few years too. Hoyt Jan 2014 #42

The basing was because they received 15% more from the government than Medicare did. SharonAnn Jan 2014 #43

That's not exactly correct. Advantage Plans develop networks, coordinate care, provide out-of-pocket Hoyt Jan 2014 #71

Two thirds is a majority. iemitsu Jan 2014 #38

You may be on to something demwing Jan 2014 #163

Medicare has an overhead of about 1.5%. Most HMOs have overheads ranging from 15-20%... truth2power Jan 2014 #39

We have to support those HMO and insurance company executive's mansions mdbl Jan 2014 #46

But HeritageCare caps their profits at 20%!!!!! That's hugh!!!! Doctor_J Jan 2014 #48

wow. new year arely staircase Jan 2014 #49

Message auto-removed Name removed Jan 2014 #50

if ACA is the president's "legacy" FatBuddy Jan 2014 #57

Message auto-removed Name removed Jan 2014 #61

bullshit FatBuddy Jan 2014 #63

No, ProSense Jan 2014 #68

there are approximately 313.9 million people in the US FatBuddy Jan 2014 #70

What? ProSense Jan 2014 #73

propaganda FatBuddy Jan 2014 #81

Reality ProSense Jan 2014 #82

glug glug glug FatBuddy Jan 2014 #84

More: ProSense Jan 2014 #87

YAY! insurance lobby! FatBuddy Jan 2014 #101

Yay: ProSense Jan 2014 #104

are you a real person FatBuddy Jan 2014 #105

Guess what: ProSense Jan 2014 #108

algorithm it is then FatBuddy Jan 2014 #109

LOL! ProSense Jan 2014 #112

no projection FatBuddy Jan 2014 #113

Don't be so hard on yourself. n/t ProSense Jan 2014 #116

i'm not FatBuddy Jan 2014 #117

But there is this: ProSense Jan 2014 #122

Hey Pro. bvar22 Jan 2014 #156

Which makes one wonder why Teapublicans hate it so much. marble falls Jan 2014 #181

The public rates Congress as barely above the cockroach in popularity (9%). Egalitarian Thug Jan 2014 #120

By majority of Americans, you mean a majority of the richest .01% of Americans, I'm sure. nt valerief Jan 2014 #54

Really, be happy! The Heritage Foundation gave us a great plan... polichick Jan 2014 #59

YAY! lobbyists and investor class! FatBuddy Jan 2014 #65

Yep - and those insightful, caring folks at the Heritage Foundation... polichick Jan 2014 #66

yes, FatBuddy Jan 2014 #67

Message auto-removed Name removed Jan 2014 #158

They should - they hatched it... polichick Jan 2014 #162

Thank you Manny, for past and future posts. Happy New Year! Divernan Jan 2014 #72

And back at you. MannyGoldstein Jan 2014 #149

Max Baucus and Karen Ignagni Love Third Way Manny!! solarhydrocan Jan 2014 #74

Karen Ignagni estimates the size of one of her balls. Enthusiast Jan 2014 #97

Welcome to DU. bvar22 Jan 2014 #100

That gives credence to my theory that Obama just wants cover to enact a far right agenda Doctor_J Jan 2014 #124

Thanks! solarhydrocan Jan 2014 #147

God I miss him ctsnowman Jan 2014 #208

And there you have it Doctor_J Jan 2014 #118

She did a good job too. bvar22 Jan 2014 #160

Well 2/3rds may want it, but only 1/3 wants to pay for it ConservativeDemocrat Jan 2014 #86

Only 1/3 want to save money. MannyGoldstein Jan 2014 #164

Single payer is a far left communist concept. Enthusiast Jan 2014 #90

Damn those commie Nazis! Vashta Nerada Jan 2014 #95

ACA all the way! it's the best we could expect! or could hope for! or do! KG Jan 2014 #96

US Americans should be delighted to settle for Far LESS.. bvar22 Jan 2014 #157

Was trying to explain single payer Karma13612 Jan 2014 #110

Welcome to DU, Karma! pacalo Jan 2014 #161

People are gonna get jealous of everyone who got free or cheap insurance with them Obamacare gubmint Zorra Jan 2014 #134

Pisses me off H2O Man Jan 2014 #146

As Michael Parenti puts it, in America, human rights are important until they infringe on Doctor_J Jan 2014 #152

I love this OP! pacalo Jan 2014 #159

Just read Micahel Moore's op-ed in the NYT. joshcryer Jan 2014 #168

You are a very, very savvy player of our game MannyGoldstein Jan 2014 #172

What's disingenuous is ACA supporters said that all along. joshcryer Jan 2014 #175

Thoroughly disgusting post! You've converted to Presbyterian, haven't you? Kennah Jan 2014 #173

So all they have to do is vote for candidates who support Single Payer... brooklynite Jan 2014 #174

STFU, OK? MannyGoldstein Jan 2014 #180

WHO THE HELL WOULD WANT A HEALTHCARE SYSTEM WITH A LOUSY 1.5% OVERHEAD COST!? TrollBuster9090 Jan 2014 #178

Damn it, Manny, what are we going to do about the tyranny of the majority? Next they'll be wanting marble falls Jan 2014 #179

Dividng Us Is Their Strategy W.J. McCabe Jan 2014 #183

Let no one confuse you with facts. merrily Jan 2014 #185

Well, one of is confused. MannyGoldstein Jan 2014 #190

Whom did I insult personally? merrily Jan 2014 #192

Ah. I misunderstood your subject line. MannyGoldstein Jan 2014 #194

Message board hazard. merrily Jan 2014 #195

I'm typically not an aficionado of the South, MannyGoldstein Jan 2014 #197

Y'all is sometimes used when addressing only one person, though. merrily Jan 2014 #199

True. Still a void in our language. MannyGoldstein Jan 2014 #217

If u dont talk about it santroy79 Jan 2014 #205

As soon as more than 2/3rds of the House Gets on board...that's when. n/t Sheepshank Jan 2014 #212

kick woo me with science Jan 2014 #213