General Discussion

pampango

(24,692 posts)

33. Are you lumping legal and illegal immigrants together? republicans "more or less banned" legal

Thu Jan 2, 2014, 10:43 AM

Jan 2014

immigration in the early 1920's. That is not misdirection or misrepresentation. It is a fact. Democrats liberalized legal immigration in 1965, That is also a fact.

Neither the republicans in the 1920's nor the Democrats in the 1960's addressed illegal immigration, yet you counter with "the meatpacking unions were destroyed with illegal immigration" and accuse me of misdirection and misrepresentation.

How does posting the facts about republican and Democratic policies on legal immigration during the period addressed in the OP serve as a defense of illegal immigration (which I agreed was bad for meat packing unions)? If the Democratic Party's historical (and current) positive policy towards immigration makes you uncomfortable, so be it. The republican party has historically been much more negative about immigration, as witnessed most recently by its successful effort to kill immigration reform.

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The Real Reason the Middle Class Is Dead [View all] xchrom Jan 2014 OP

K&R.... daleanime Jan 2014 #1

Growing up in Iowa, I remember my mother, a surgeon's wife, being outraged by what IBP was doing -. SharonAnn Jan 2014 #64

It's not just wages that helped union members passiveporcupine Jan 2014 #77

Amen.... daleanime Jan 2014 #84

You bet... MrMickeysMom Jan 2014 #88

Either Be Pro Union And Pro Labor Or Die Economically. TheMastersNemesis Jan 2014 #2

Yup...Divided we beg, united we negotiate -- Truer words were never spoken. n/t whathehell Jan 2014 #18

Republicans are trying to eliminate the minimum wage . . . aggiesal Jan 2014 #48

Methland is an excellent book kalli007 Jan 2014 #3

Agreed. (nt) enough Jan 2014 #4

Agree! CountAllVotes Jan 2014 #6

It is an excellent book. I too had the same revalation... Javaman Jan 2014 #11

They forgot the part about where the meth comes from. I don't think it's accidental that El_Johns Jan 2014 #44

Republicans don't read anything that might open their minds. Open minds terrify them. loudsue Jan 2014 #41

None of this will change until mdbl Jan 2014 #5

Working folks have no option to vote for their interests TheKentuckian Jan 2014 #7

So, you're saying there's no difference between Romney and Obama? Or between Bush and Gore? baldguy Jan 2014 #10

So true, so true. tabasco Jan 2014 #23

Well worded and true nt Progressive dog Jan 2014 #60

No, that is not what I said, in fact I clearly specified the difference. TheKentuckian Jan 2014 #62

That won't matter. bvar22 Jan 2014 #67

You got that right, pretty much the same as the out opposition with spell check. TheKentuckian Jan 2014 #101

You said "Working folks have no option to vote for their interests". Your words. baldguy Jan 2014 #68

This message was self-deleted by its author neffernin Jan 2014 #70

Tell that to the millions of people who now have health insurance today baldguy Jan 2014 #72

This message was self-deleted by its author neffernin Jan 2014 #108

Whereas single payer was & is politically not viable with the current Congress and you know it. baldguy Jan 2014 #110

This message was self-deleted by its author neffernin Jan 2014 #111

Note that *I'M* being accused of being a RW stooge in this thread for supporting the Pres & the Dems baldguy Jan 2014 #112

Post removed Post removed Jan 2014 #79

"You right wingers"? Everyone who supports Obama is a right winger now? baldguy Jan 2014 #80

+10 (nt) reACTIONary Jan 2014 #86

The convenient "misinterpretation" is very common here. Egalitarian Thug Jan 2014 #92

Are you only able read one sentence? More likely you are TheKentuckian Jan 2014 #96

Trying to add qualifications to your offensive remarks doesn't make then any less offensive. baldguy Jan 2014 #100

I don't have to qualify, I didn't say the parties are the same. I said workers don't have an option TheKentuckian Jan 2014 #102

We're not talking about vegtables or rock albums, but about political parties & politicicians. baldguy Jan 2014 #103

Post removed Post removed Jan 2014 #120

+10 (nt) reACTIONary Jan 2014 #85

It's been closely orchestrated nolabels Jan 2014 #15

+1 Myrina Jan 2014 #28

Too right! another_liberal Jan 2014 #8

Yep...The Corporatocracy is definitely pushing it. n/t whathehell Jan 2014 #20

As Unions Decline, Inequality Rises mother earth Jan 2014 #9

republicans "more or less banned" immigration in 1921 and 1924; in 1965 Democrats reversed that. pampango Jan 2014 #12

The meatpacking unions were destroyed with illegal immigration. You're in denial. nt Romulox Jan 2014 #21

I am not in denial about the facts of immigration restrictions from 1925 to 1965 period in the OP. pampango Jan 2014 #25

Right. Now do the part about the total loss of a unionized industry (meatpacking) due to illegal Romulox Jan 2014 #26

I am not "defending" the use of illegal immigrants in the meat packing industry. pampango Jan 2014 #27

You were just denying it, remember? You defend via misdirection and misrepresentation. Romulox Jan 2014 #29

Are you lumping legal and illegal immigrants together? republicans "more or less banned" legal pampango Jan 2014 #33

I'm not wallowing in the mud with you, pampango. I'm also not allowing you to make demonstrably Romulox Jan 2014 #35

It would be helpful if you pointed out my "demonstrably false statements". pampango Jan 2014 #36

Destroying the working class isn't a "liberal" value, for starters. Romulox Jan 2014 #37

Legal immigration does not destroy the working class. If it did, republicans would be for it - not pampango Jan 2014 #39

You're attempting to twist my argument to your ends. It doesn't work. You said immigration doesn't Romulox Jan 2014 #40

"You said immigration doesn't break unions. You are, of course, wrong." pampango Jan 2014 #43

Your statement . . . aggiesal Jan 2014 #49

Legal immigration does indeed bring down wages, and it's one of the reasons why bipartisan El_Johns Jan 2014 #118

Thank you for offering up a rarely mentioned side truedelphi Jan 2014 #54

I get angry at the ghouls who claim this treatment is "compassionate". nt Romulox Jan 2014 #57

And if moral principles were involved, then the outrage should be truedelphi Jan 2014 #59

Because people who scapegoat impoverished immigrants refuse to look at the whole picture. nomorenomore08 Jan 2014 #74

Where did I insinutate that everything was fine until the foreigners arrived? truedelphi Jan 2014 #107

I didn't say you made that argument yourself. But it's the argument of those who choose to blame nomorenomore08 Jan 2014 #114

I think the OP is saying that, for most of our history whathehell Jan 2014 #22

There have always been immigration quotas, but they have been very big leading to our pampango Jan 2014 #24

about a quarter million a year, I believe, but I don't whathehell Jan 2014 #46

Poorly regulated immigration depresses wages. n/t lumberjack_jeff Jan 2014 #69

Not me. I don't ignore the issues, but I do ignore "DU wars" Tom Rinaldo Jan 2014 #13

K & R ctsnowman Jan 2014 #14

The truth of the matter is, that people are not paid according to their skills.... DrewFlorida Jan 2014 #16

+1 El_Johns Jan 2014 #45

+1 (nt) reACTIONary Jan 2014 #87

Yup. Skills had nothing to do with it. That's what some mill workers I know don't get. They think brewens Jan 2014 #17

That's an excellent point. Many have an overinflated idea of their market value - until reality hits reformist2 Jan 2014 #123

The meatpacking unions were destroyed with illegal immigrants. As long as we have an open border Romulox Jan 2014 #19

They were destroyed by legislation. El_Johns Jan 2014 #47

No. The pertinent legislation requires legal status for employment. Our government ignores it. nt Romulox Jan 2014 #56

As did IBP. My union was screaming about this thirty years ago, no one else gave a shit. Ikonoklast Jan 2014 #71

I'm not saying there isn't a problem. But how do we deal with it without playing into right-wing nomorenomore08 Jan 2014 #75

Make the professional class play the same game shaayecanaan Jan 2014 #82

Except it's not professionals who've had to leave their home country or else starve. nomorenomore08 Jan 2014 #83

They'd happily come if they could... shaayecanaan Jan 2014 #94

Except illegal immigration has slowed to a trickle, or even somewhat reversed itself, since the nomorenomore08 Jan 2014 #97

Well, thats why they call it a crash... shaayecanaan Jan 2014 #99

Which is why we need better protections for all workers, including immigrants. nomorenomore08 Jan 2014 #113

IBP located in Iowa, non-union, for starters. That was their first innovation, to locate outside El_Johns Jan 2014 #115

And what about all the Unionized plants IBP acquired? Tell me what happened there. Ikonoklast Jan 2014 #116

"Easily searched on the web" -- so is David Icke. Meatpacking wages were destroyed by El_Johns Jan 2014 #117

Legal Immigration: Historical El_Johns Jan 2014 #90

It's called conservative economics 4dsc Jan 2014 #30

I don't believe you jollyreaper2112 Jan 2014 #31

Fast Food Nation was another work that exposed the true impact of our corporate culture.. mountain grammy Jan 2014 #32

K&R Of course. n/t Egalitarian Thug Jan 2014 #34

This whole fucking thread is an ..... socialist_n_TN Jan 2014 #38

Sounds great in theory. But how do you put it into practice? nomorenomore08 Jan 2014 #76

Worker's councils, direct democracy as far as possible...... socialist_n_TN Jan 2014 #121

No real issue with any of that. I'm more the Social Democrat type myself but I do sympathize nomorenomore08 Jan 2014 #122

Just a projection, but I would imagine that IF........ socialist_n_TN Jan 2014 #124

k/r marmar Jan 2014 #42

Most of what passes for 'employment' policy from the right (and many on the left)... Wounded Bear Jan 2014 #50

Yes, that is the new meme for today's unemployed. truedelphi Jan 2014 #61

interesting, but hfojvt Jan 2014 #51

anecdotal evidence -- isn't really useful. nt xchrom Jan 2014 #53

really? because the article also was based on anecdotes hfojvt Jan 2014 #95

Just because YOU have been lucky... bvar22 Jan 2014 #65

I was lucky? hfojvt Jan 2014 #91

, blkmusclmachine Jan 2014 #52

Visas. moondust Jan 2014 #55

OK, but what I want to know is... dchill Jan 2014 #58

The REAL Reason the Middle Class is DEAD: bvar22 Jan 2014 #63

Because the RW has convinced less well-informed liberals that "all politicians are the same". baldguy Jan 2014 #81

You have been "Goated". bvar22 Jan 2014 #104

Says the one posting RW talking points. baldguy Jan 2014 #105

I alerted on your post. bvar22 Jan 2014 #106

I especially like the Orwellian comments from Juror #2. baldguy Jan 2014 #109

And being not republican has won a few elections as well. n/t Egalitarian Thug Jan 2014 #93

They don't CARE how much goes over your desk.... Spitfire of ATJ Jan 2014 #66

DLC (now called New Dems) & GOP together killed the middle class. NorthCarolina Jan 2014 #73

I had bosses give me meth to work longer, faster and harder..... Bennyboy Jan 2014 #78

Was your boss's name Walter White? CoffeeCat Jan 2014 #98

Both parties openfield Jan 2014 #89

they voted for reagan. KG Jan 2014 #119