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blkmusclmachine

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Reply to xchrom (Original post)

Thu Jan 2, 2014, 03:52 PM

Jan 2014

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The Real Reason the Middle Class Is Dead [View all] xchrom Jan 2014 OP

K&R.... daleanime Jan 2014 #1

Growing up in Iowa, I remember my mother, a surgeon's wife, being outraged by what IBP was doing -. SharonAnn Jan 2014 #64

It's not just wages that helped union members passiveporcupine Jan 2014 #77

Amen.... daleanime Jan 2014 #84

You bet... MrMickeysMom Jan 2014 #88

Either Be Pro Union And Pro Labor Or Die Economically. TheMastersNemesis Jan 2014 #2

Yup...Divided we beg, united we negotiate -- Truer words were never spoken. n/t whathehell Jan 2014 #18

Republicans are trying to eliminate the minimum wage . . . aggiesal Jan 2014 #48

Methland is an excellent book kalli007 Jan 2014 #3

Agreed. (nt) enough Jan 2014 #4

Agree! CountAllVotes Jan 2014 #6

It is an excellent book. I too had the same revalation... Javaman Jan 2014 #11

They forgot the part about where the meth comes from. I don't think it's accidental that El_Johns Jan 2014 #44

Republicans don't read anything that might open their minds. Open minds terrify them. loudsue Jan 2014 #41

None of this will change until mdbl Jan 2014 #5

Working folks have no option to vote for their interests TheKentuckian Jan 2014 #7

So, you're saying there's no difference between Romney and Obama? Or between Bush and Gore? baldguy Jan 2014 #10

So true, so true. tabasco Jan 2014 #23

Well worded and true nt Progressive dog Jan 2014 #60

No, that is not what I said, in fact I clearly specified the difference. TheKentuckian Jan 2014 #62

That won't matter. bvar22 Jan 2014 #67

You got that right, pretty much the same as the out opposition with spell check. TheKentuckian Jan 2014 #101

You said "Working folks have no option to vote for their interests". Your words. baldguy Jan 2014 #68

This message was self-deleted by its author neffernin Jan 2014 #70

Tell that to the millions of people who now have health insurance today baldguy Jan 2014 #72

This message was self-deleted by its author neffernin Jan 2014 #108

Whereas single payer was & is politically not viable with the current Congress and you know it. baldguy Jan 2014 #110

This message was self-deleted by its author neffernin Jan 2014 #111

Note that *I'M* being accused of being a RW stooge in this thread for supporting the Pres & the Dems baldguy Jan 2014 #112

Post removed Post removed Jan 2014 #79

"You right wingers"? Everyone who supports Obama is a right winger now? baldguy Jan 2014 #80

+10 (nt) reACTIONary Jan 2014 #86

The convenient "misinterpretation" is very common here. Egalitarian Thug Jan 2014 #92

Are you only able read one sentence? More likely you are TheKentuckian Jan 2014 #96

Trying to add qualifications to your offensive remarks doesn't make then any less offensive. baldguy Jan 2014 #100

I don't have to qualify, I didn't say the parties are the same. I said workers don't have an option TheKentuckian Jan 2014 #102

We're not talking about vegtables or rock albums, but about political parties & politicicians. baldguy Jan 2014 #103

Post removed Post removed Jan 2014 #120

+10 (nt) reACTIONary Jan 2014 #85

It's been closely orchestrated nolabels Jan 2014 #15

+1 Myrina Jan 2014 #28

Too right! another_liberal Jan 2014 #8

Yep...The Corporatocracy is definitely pushing it. n/t whathehell Jan 2014 #20

As Unions Decline, Inequality Rises mother earth Jan 2014 #9

republicans "more or less banned" immigration in 1921 and 1924; in 1965 Democrats reversed that. pampango Jan 2014 #12

The meatpacking unions were destroyed with illegal immigration. You're in denial. nt Romulox Jan 2014 #21

I am not in denial about the facts of immigration restrictions from 1925 to 1965 period in the OP. pampango Jan 2014 #25

Right. Now do the part about the total loss of a unionized industry (meatpacking) due to illegal Romulox Jan 2014 #26

I am not "defending" the use of illegal immigrants in the meat packing industry. pampango Jan 2014 #27

You were just denying it, remember? You defend via misdirection and misrepresentation. Romulox Jan 2014 #29

Are you lumping legal and illegal immigrants together? republicans "more or less banned" legal pampango Jan 2014 #33

I'm not wallowing in the mud with you, pampango. I'm also not allowing you to make demonstrably Romulox Jan 2014 #35

It would be helpful if you pointed out my "demonstrably false statements". pampango Jan 2014 #36

Destroying the working class isn't a "liberal" value, for starters. Romulox Jan 2014 #37

Legal immigration does not destroy the working class. If it did, republicans would be for it - not pampango Jan 2014 #39

You're attempting to twist my argument to your ends. It doesn't work. You said immigration doesn't Romulox Jan 2014 #40

"You said immigration doesn't break unions. You are, of course, wrong." pampango Jan 2014 #43

Your statement . . . aggiesal Jan 2014 #49

Legal immigration does indeed bring down wages, and it's one of the reasons why bipartisan El_Johns Jan 2014 #118

Thank you for offering up a rarely mentioned side truedelphi Jan 2014 #54

I get angry at the ghouls who claim this treatment is "compassionate". nt Romulox Jan 2014 #57

And if moral principles were involved, then the outrage should be truedelphi Jan 2014 #59

Because people who scapegoat impoverished immigrants refuse to look at the whole picture. nomorenomore08 Jan 2014 #74

Where did I insinutate that everything was fine until the foreigners arrived? truedelphi Jan 2014 #107

I didn't say you made that argument yourself. But it's the argument of those who choose to blame nomorenomore08 Jan 2014 #114

I think the OP is saying that, for most of our history whathehell Jan 2014 #22

There have always been immigration quotas, but they have been very big leading to our pampango Jan 2014 #24

about a quarter million a year, I believe, but I don't whathehell Jan 2014 #46

Poorly regulated immigration depresses wages. n/t lumberjack_jeff Jan 2014 #69

Not me. I don't ignore the issues, but I do ignore "DU wars" Tom Rinaldo Jan 2014 #13

K & R ctsnowman Jan 2014 #14

The truth of the matter is, that people are not paid according to their skills.... DrewFlorida Jan 2014 #16

+1 El_Johns Jan 2014 #45

+1 (nt) reACTIONary Jan 2014 #87

Yup. Skills had nothing to do with it. That's what some mill workers I know don't get. They think brewens Jan 2014 #17

That's an excellent point. Many have an overinflated idea of their market value - until reality hits reformist2 Jan 2014 #123

The meatpacking unions were destroyed with illegal immigrants. As long as we have an open border Romulox Jan 2014 #19

They were destroyed by legislation. El_Johns Jan 2014 #47

No. The pertinent legislation requires legal status for employment. Our government ignores it. nt Romulox Jan 2014 #56

As did IBP. My union was screaming about this thirty years ago, no one else gave a shit. Ikonoklast Jan 2014 #71

I'm not saying there isn't a problem. But how do we deal with it without playing into right-wing nomorenomore08 Jan 2014 #75

Make the professional class play the same game shaayecanaan Jan 2014 #82

Except it's not professionals who've had to leave their home country or else starve. nomorenomore08 Jan 2014 #83

They'd happily come if they could... shaayecanaan Jan 2014 #94

Except illegal immigration has slowed to a trickle, or even somewhat reversed itself, since the nomorenomore08 Jan 2014 #97

Well, thats why they call it a crash... shaayecanaan Jan 2014 #99

Which is why we need better protections for all workers, including immigrants. nomorenomore08 Jan 2014 #113

IBP located in Iowa, non-union, for starters. That was their first innovation, to locate outside El_Johns Jan 2014 #115

And what about all the Unionized plants IBP acquired? Tell me what happened there. Ikonoklast Jan 2014 #116

"Easily searched on the web" -- so is David Icke. Meatpacking wages were destroyed by El_Johns Jan 2014 #117

Legal Immigration: Historical El_Johns Jan 2014 #90

It's called conservative economics 4dsc Jan 2014 #30

I don't believe you jollyreaper2112 Jan 2014 #31

Fast Food Nation was another work that exposed the true impact of our corporate culture.. mountain grammy Jan 2014 #32

K&R Of course. n/t Egalitarian Thug Jan 2014 #34

This whole fucking thread is an ..... socialist_n_TN Jan 2014 #38

Sounds great in theory. But how do you put it into practice? nomorenomore08 Jan 2014 #76

Worker's councils, direct democracy as far as possible...... socialist_n_TN Jan 2014 #121

No real issue with any of that. I'm more the Social Democrat type myself but I do sympathize nomorenomore08 Jan 2014 #122

Just a projection, but I would imagine that IF........ socialist_n_TN Jan 2014 #124

k/r marmar Jan 2014 #42

Most of what passes for 'employment' policy from the right (and many on the left)... Wounded Bear Jan 2014 #50

Yes, that is the new meme for today's unemployed. truedelphi Jan 2014 #61

interesting, but hfojvt Jan 2014 #51

anecdotal evidence -- isn't really useful. nt xchrom Jan 2014 #53

really? because the article also was based on anecdotes hfojvt Jan 2014 #95

Just because YOU have been lucky... bvar22 Jan 2014 #65

I was lucky? hfojvt Jan 2014 #91

, blkmusclmachine Jan 2014 #52

Visas. moondust Jan 2014 #55

OK, but what I want to know is... dchill Jan 2014 #58

The REAL Reason the Middle Class is DEAD: bvar22 Jan 2014 #63

Because the RW has convinced less well-informed liberals that "all politicians are the same". baldguy Jan 2014 #81

You have been "Goated". bvar22 Jan 2014 #104

Says the one posting RW talking points. baldguy Jan 2014 #105

I alerted on your post. bvar22 Jan 2014 #106

I especially like the Orwellian comments from Juror #2. baldguy Jan 2014 #109

And being not republican has won a few elections as well. n/t Egalitarian Thug Jan 2014 #93

They don't CARE how much goes over your desk.... Spitfire of ATJ Jan 2014 #66

DLC (now called New Dems) & GOP together killed the middle class. NorthCarolina Jan 2014 #73

I had bosses give me meth to work longer, faster and harder..... Bennyboy Jan 2014 #78

Was your boss's name Walter White? CoffeeCat Jan 2014 #98

Both parties openfield Jan 2014 #89

they voted for reagan. KG Jan 2014 #119