General Discussion

defacto7

(14,162 posts)

74. I think it's the American system.

Sun Jan 5, 2014, 12:28 AM

Jan 2014

It's not like this in many other countries as I understand it. My German wife tells me that in Europe the child's welfare is the only issue considered. There are no need for lawyers in almost all cases because the law has a strait forward predetermined set of rules for children and parents of divorce. That eliminates the parental bickering, usury and crazy TV antics. It's the child's welfare first and only. She says it seems to work. She was a child of divorce and there is no argument as far as parenting and money is concerned and basically the parents have no reason to argue; they know before they get divorced what their roll is. Since the system is more socialized the money is divvied up according to the rule before they get paid and it's not easy to hide, but then there's no reason to hide it. As I have seen it, it's usually pretty fair, no one starves or goes to jail unless a major crime is present. That's her story anyway.

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Man Over pays Child Support, And visits his son too much, Sentenced to 180 Days in Jail [View all] Heather MC Jan 2014 OP

Fox. Squinch Jan 2014 #1

I have never understood why two people that claimed to have loved each other dearly bluestate10 Jan 2014 #2

Before I was divorced, I felt the same way you do. GreenEyedLefty Jan 2014 #4

Divorce is an industry. mn9driver Jan 2014 #9

Oh so we should work for free? WolverineDG Jan 2014 #19

If you're a "family law" attorney, maybe you should. mn9driver Jan 2014 #25

Do you work for free? Or are you upset you had to pay for the problems you helped create? last1standing Jan 2014 #32

There are plenty of them.. sendero Jan 2014 #156

Yes there are a few & we know who they are (talking in terms of local bars) WolverineDG Jan 2014 #192

LOL. Anything to keep from having to take responsibility for your own problems. last1standing Jan 2014 #228

Nobody said anything. sendero Jan 2014 #241

Actually, the post I responded to said exactly that. last1standing Jan 2014 #242

Agreeing with part of what someone said.. sendero Jan 2014 #243

"Nobody said anything about anyone giving anything away." Isn't that what you wrote? last1standing Jan 2014 #244

Tsk, tsk... Changing your post after reading mine. Pathetic and sad. last1standing Jan 2014 #246

That's a seriously unfair comment for what sounds like a personal grudge jtuck004 Jan 2014 #35

Wow... we used a "family law" attorney when my husband adopted our daughter... ScreamingMeemie Jan 2014 #39

What's your job? Do you want to work for free? nt. Hosnon Jan 2014 #65

You know most family law attorneys would be happy just to charge a flat fee WolverineDG Jan 2014 #191

Agreed and they think they should not have to pay for your time! treestar Jan 2014 #195

We all get it. You hate your clients and you think they're garbage. Darkhawk32 Jan 2014 #208

It only takes one party to make a big payday for both attorneys. mn9driver Jan 2014 #221

Your divorce cost $200,000 in legal fees? Sheldon Cooper Jan 2014 #223

Yes. mn9driver Jan 2014 #225

That's pretty much how all law civil law works Major Nikon Jan 2014 #250

$120/hr Capt13 Jan 2014 #44

Yup, my lawyer did the same to me, charged me full hours when split his actual time with several .. Darkhawk32 Jan 2014 #108

How do you know what he charged all 6 clients? newcriminal Jan 2014 #119

He charged but did you pay? treestar Jan 2014 #197

Fraudulent billing is standard & customary practice in the legal profession. Egalitarian Thug Jan 2014 #133

Bullshit. newcriminal Jan 2014 #144

Which has nothing at all to do with the point made. Want to try again? n/t Egalitarian Thug Jan 2014 #169

Whether I misunderstood or not doesn't make your post correct. newcriminal Jan 2014 #170

LOL! You are either a complete legal novice, or you are a lawyer. Egalitarian Thug Jan 2014 #176

I had my lawyer call me, keep me on the phone for an hour and sent me a bill for $200. Darkhawk32 Jan 2014 #152

Was he talking about the weather or your case? newcriminal Jan 2014 #158

Wow, you can just keep calling your clients and racking up the bills, Darkhawk32 Jan 2014 #161

What a scam? newcriminal Jan 2014 #165

Yes, they could be "working". No way to verify anything really. Just "trust me". Darkhawk32 Jan 2014 #172

Even better, you can simply claim to have been thinking about a case and bill it. Egalitarian Thug Jan 2014 #171

Agreed. Over-inflated, egotistical bunch of sociopaths. Darkhawk32 Jan 2014 #173

So represent yourself. treestar Jan 2014 #205

Perhaps you need a different line of work, since you hate your clients. Darkhawk32 Jan 2014 #206

I don't; they don't mind paying me. treestar Jan 2014 #207

So in order to "play the game" you feel I must subject myself to fraudulent billing? Darkhawk32 Jan 2014 #209

I guess. In your dark world you have two choices treestar Jan 2014 #210

Yes, those are the two options left to many people. Darkhawk32 Jan 2014 #213

What do you propose? treestar Jan 2014 #216

I don't believe that. treestar Jan 2014 #198

I think lawyers charge exorbitant fees. Not that they have to work for free. Darkhawk32 Jan 2014 #109

No, you should work for a better world. Egalitarian Thug Jan 2014 #132

Lawyers whining about getting paid? 99Forever Jan 2014 #180

Maybe you shouldn't be paid either treestar Jan 2014 #200

How about you stop making unnecessary work that you get paid for? krispos42 Jan 2014 #181

If you know what work is necessary treestar Jan 2014 #214

Which only works... krispos42 Jan 2014 #232

That's admitting lawyers much know something? treestar Jan 2014 #233

All layers should be paid for by the state. ZombieHorde Jan 2014 #236

EVERYTHING is set up so lawyers make money.... Bennyboy Jan 2014 #66

You're delusional. newcriminal Jan 2014 #76

The client who expects the moon handed to them on a silver platter treestar Jan 2014 #199

Jonathan Swift writes about "The Law" (such as it is) -- Nuclear Unicorn Jan 2014 #219

Why shouldn't an attorney be paid in this case? nt msanthrope Jan 2014 #227

I have a dipshit ex son in law.... awoke_in_2003 Jan 2014 #11

I don't get it, either. Warpy Jan 2014 #131

It's what happens after. krispos42 Jan 2014 #185

Absolutely. treestar Jan 2014 #194

I've watched many members of my families do this. Shoulders of Giants Jan 2014 #211

Where does it say that he "overpays his child support and visits his son too much"? Sheldon Cooper Jan 2014 #3

The Lawyer said it. Gore1FL Jan 2014 #12

But that doesn't really prove anything. Sheldon Cooper Jan 2014 #13

That's fair. I never claimed otherwise. Gore1FL Jan 2014 #15

Thanks. Sheldon Cooper Jan 2014 #17

What? Ralph Scott Jan 2014 #136

Are you talking to me? Sheldon Cooper Jan 2014 #139

He paid very erratically, according to the article. Other than that quote, pnwmom Jan 2014 #135

I just answered the question: Gore1FL Jan 2014 #179

Something very similar happened to my husband Le Taz Hot Jan 2014 #5

I had to bail his ass out of jail. yeoman6987 Jan 2014 #28

Definitely one of those Le Taz Hot Jan 2014 #34

I used to work with somebody who couldn't get the State of California off his back Sen. Walter Sobchak Jan 2014 #31

The problem with California's system Le Taz Hot Jan 2014 #37

God you're telling me. ScreamingMeemie Jan 2014 #42

I'm going through the same thing... Darkhawk32 Jan 2014 #95

Look out, some here might think you're being disrespectful for women Darkhawk32 Jan 2014 #92

I have been a member of the DU "racist hetero patriarchy" for some time Sen. Walter Sobchak Jan 2014 #98

Just wish there was help for me in Missouri. Darkhawk32 Jan 2014 #103

As a divorced dad it's my experience that child "support" systems often start with the assumption villager Jan 2014 #36

Now, now, I've just been told Le Taz Hot Jan 2014 #226

There are always available apologists for every system's excess... villager Jan 2014 #235

Yes, it's severely scary for fathers out there. The system is just itching to screw them! Darkhawk32 Jan 2014 #50

Actually, non-custodial parents of either gender. For a time my ex had custody of my child GreenEyedLefty Jan 2014 #142

But the vast majority of NCP's are men. Darkhawk32 Jan 2014 #147

That statistic is changing... GreenEyedLefty Jan 2014 #157

I certainly hope you're right. Right now, the system just hurts kids, Darkhawk32 Jan 2014 #162

Child support cannot be increased without a hearing treestar Jan 2014 #201

Apparently there was a hearing of which he was not notified. Le Taz Hot Jan 2014 #212

They must have had "proof of service" in the file treestar Jan 2014 #215

You can argue all day long that the system is just, logical and legal, Le Taz Hot Jan 2014 #217

I at least have court rules and statutes to back me up treestar Jan 2014 #218

Whatever, dude. Le Taz Hot Jan 2014 #222

Wow that's determined to be unobjective to a great length treestar Jan 2014 #224

He didn't overpay. He paid the $3000 that owed but probably Luminous Animal Jan 2014 #6

That's ridiculous if they're going to change terms he needs to be notified Arcanetrance Jan 2014 #7

"Judge Millard tells Fox 26 after she found Hall in contempt he walked out of the courtroom" Gravitycollapse Jan 2014 #8

That was very stupid on his part you should never lose your cool in court Arcanetrance Jan 2014 #10

Is 180 days normal for contempt? Bradical79 Jan 2014 #178

If he had the money to pay his arrears and he's such a responsible father LeftyMom Jan 2014 #14

I agree. Sheldon Cooper Jan 2014 #16

Because his employer wasn't withholding from his wages properly WolverineDG Jan 2014 #20

Yes, but he gets paystubs and he knows that he has a child support obligation. LeftyMom Jan 2014 #22

Read the story again 1000words Jan 2014 #23

That's actually not always the best thing to do. Ms. Toad Jan 2014 #26

My ex was making payments into the Ohio system and had to do exactly that. LeftyMom Jan 2014 #38

I know fathers who have overpaid Ms. Toad Jan 2014 #48

I have a friend at work that overpaid by around $6000 because of HER not reporting income! Darkhawk32 Jan 2014 #51

Generally you have to go back to court Ms. Toad Jan 2014 #125

He did. The judge told him tough shit. Darkhawk32 Jan 2014 #148

My point is that it is not self-adjusting. Ms. Toad Jan 2014 #166

Yes, but if the change was not made previously because of the receiving parent's fraud, Darkhawk32 Jan 2014 #174

He did. The judge told him tough shit. Darkhawk32 Jan 2014 #148

Oh no, I meant to send the check to the CSPA (or local equivalent) NOT to the custodial parent. LeftyMom Jan 2014 #55

The problem with that is Ms. Toad Jan 2014 #126

yes but in Texas, the employer's order goes to the employer WolverineDG Jan 2014 #89

Also, if he was showing up fore visits (unscheduled) when he shouldn't be that is an issue itself. boston bean Jan 2014 #123

And any story about the system ought to be taken with a grain of salt treestar Jan 2014 #204

I would like to see the orders WolverineDG Jan 2014 #18

What bothers me is that he is being threatened with jail. Throw him in jail and it ruins madinmaryland Jan 2014 #27

If you listent to the video - Ms. Toad Jan 2014 #29

In my husband's custody, visitation & support orders in two states Mariana Jan 2014 #168

Just because pipi_k Jan 2014 #21

There is one error in your knowledge of the child support orders, Curmudgeoness Jan 2014 #43

I personally don't mind the payroll deduction. It ensures I know it is paid and that there are ... Darkhawk32 Jan 2014 #49

That is very true. islanderjen Jan 2014 #254

It is interesting that the military does not garnish Curmudgeoness Jan 2014 #255

Nothing in the article, Ms. Toad Jan 2014 #24

By any chance is the child support system in Texas privatized? tartan2 Jan 2014 #30

No nt WolverineDG Jan 2014 #94

This exposes the fact that in the family court system, men are treated like garbage. Darkhawk32 Jan 2014 #33

The feeling you get as a dad in the system is that "all are guilty," axiomatically villager Jan 2014 #40

I was told by a judge, IN COURT, to my face... Darkhawk32 Jan 2014 #67

Anybody want to tell me again that DU isn't infested with MRAs? LeftyMom Jan 2014 #41

Do you feel threatened by the notion of a man wanting equal rights to his children and... Darkhawk32 Jan 2014 #46

I was raised by a single father. Don't make assuptions. LeftyMom Jan 2014 #52

Did he have to deal with a family court as far as for joint/shared custody? Darkhawk32 Jan 2014 #56

Yes. LeftyMom Jan 2014 #59

So your mom was a deadbeat mom (lacking a better word for right now)? Darkhawk32 Jan 2014 #62

Yeah. Drug problem. LeftyMom Jan 2014 #68

It can, but doesn't do it equally. Darkhawk32 Jan 2014 #69

And to view that notion as an infestation makes you just as bad as ... Darkhawk32 Jan 2014 #47

Men who disrespect women aren't worthy of my respect. LeftyMom Jan 2014 #53

Oh no, you don't get to play that tired canard with me. Darkhawk32 Jan 2014 #58

Reread your post! You accused women of driving men away and exploiting them for money. LeftyMom Jan 2014 #60

BECAUSE SOME WOMEN DO THAT! AND USE THE SYSTEM TO DO IT! Darkhawk32 Jan 2014 #63

"It lends itself"... meaning it can lead to or facilitate. Darkhawk32 Jan 2014 #64

I'm sorry, but that's just stupid. The math doesn't work. LeftyMom Jan 2014 #73

If you truly believe that, you haven't been paying attention. Darkhawk32 Jan 2014 #78

I work full-time and pay 25% of my NET income in child support. Darkhawk32 Jan 2014 #79

If she's on welfare, she's not getting a dime of your child support kdmorris Jan 2014 #140

No, I truly believe that because I can do basic math. LeftyMom Jan 2014 #82

Mine fell... hers went up and she doesn't even have to work for it. Darkhawk32 Jan 2014 #83

You said she's on welfare. They don't give that out to people who are living well. LeftyMom Jan 2014 #88

She barely works, she gets $500+ a month on food stamps, my money, tax money (yes EIC included), Darkhawk32 Jan 2014 #97

No, she doesn't get those things. Your kids do. LeftyMom Jan 2014 #102

You need them 6 months and legally it's 6 months. Darkhawk32 Jan 2014 #104

Your kids are on welfare. LeftyMom Jan 2014 #107

I'm NOT on welfare Darkhawk32 Jan 2014 #111

Nobody said you were. LeftyMom Jan 2014 #112

Sorry, it's late and I had to re-read. Darkhawk32 Jan 2014 #113

Her not doing well is her CHOICE. She knows she doesn't HAVE to work because ... Darkhawk32 Jan 2014 #115

EIC: Not quite for divorced parents Ms. Toad Jan 2014 #128

By that measure he's supposed to claim them. LeftyMom Jan 2014 #129

Should have read the rest of the thread before I posted above kdmorris Jan 2014 #141

I've reported her for welfare fraud, but they don't investigate. Darkhawk32 Jan 2014 #145

I am not disputing that many men get treated unfairly kdmorris Jan 2014 #155

Yes, I'm bitter about the child custody. I've already admitted that. Darkhawk32 Jan 2014 #160

I get that you are frustrated kdmorris Jan 2014 #164

I know everybody has stories. We should all be working for a system that doesn't create these Darkhawk32 Jan 2014 #175

I think we already did agree on that kdmorris Jan 2014 #177

Because she gets to claim them because the judge says she gets to claim them. Darkhawk32 Jan 2014 #151

Most domestic court systems heavily favor the mother. Hosnon Jan 2014 #72

Exactly. Men fighting that system in order to become an equal parent under the law shows... Darkhawk32 Jan 2014 #77

When it really comes down to it. A lot of mothers (not all) really don't want the fathers around. Darkhawk32 Jan 2014 #80

So the experiences we have as fathers of being treated a certain way by the system... villager Jan 2014 #81

Oh noes the MRA Union Scribe Jan 2014 #120

Unbelievable 1000words Jan 2014 #127

That's just not true. newcriminal Jan 2014 #45

And you know this how? Darkhawk32 Jan 2014 #54

My husband is a family court lawyer and I work with him. newcriminal Jan 2014 #57

So he's part of the system. If he doesn't see there's a bias, then he's lying. Darkhawk32 Jan 2014 #61

That's bullshit. newcriminal Jan 2014 #70

Not nearly as many women as men... not even close. Darkhawk32 Jan 2014 #71

Cite your data. AtheistCrusader Jan 2014 #87

When joint custody is not the default arrangement, the system will always favor women Major Nikon Jan 2014 #93

I don't believe that. newcriminal Jan 2014 #105

So a man that did the right thing and supported his family BEFORE the divorce, Darkhawk32 Jan 2014 #106

No, I didn't. newcriminal Jan 2014 #110

So you're saying that men who worked before the divorce aren't equal parents Darkhawk32 Jan 2014 #114

First, you've assumed that the father just isn't normally capable of being an equal parent Darkhawk32 Jan 2014 #116

You obviously have had a bad experience with your custody battle and newcriminal Jan 2014 #117

I didn't misquote you at all. If the father worked, the mother should have the upper hand. Darkhawk32 Jan 2014 #118

Again I never said if the Father works the Mother should have the upper hand. newcriminal Jan 2014 #121

Both can be and often are primary care givers Major Nikon Jan 2014 #124

Here, here. Darkhawk32 Jan 2014 #150

Joint physical should not be the default because it does not adequately address the needs of the msanthrope Jan 2014 #183

Default does not mean all other considerations are tossed into the wind Major Nikon Jan 2014 #188

But when you change the default, you but an unreasonable burden on the primary caregiver, msanthrope Jan 2014 #189

You didn't describe why it's unreasonable Major Nikon Jan 2014 #190

First, a default that does not take into account the well-being of the child is patently msanthrope Jan 2014 #202

Custodial orders don't even happen unless the parents can't work them out on their own Major Nikon Jan 2014 #220

I think you haven't read the law you are touting. And if you have read it, you haven't msanthrope Jan 2014 #229

Do you actually think that isn't happening now? Major Nikon Jan 2014 #230

Equal parenting is not always in the best interests of the child. Sorry....but it's not. You are msanthrope Jan 2014 #234

Anecdotal evidence is shit and you either already know it or should know it Major Nikon Jan 2014 #237

I didn't give you anecdotal evidence. I gave you valid hypos which underscore the bad law you tout. msanthrope Jan 2014 #238

Which is even worse than anecdotal evidence Major Nikon Jan 2014 #239

You are the one advocating for a change in law, it is you who must provide proof that msanthrope Jan 2014 #240

How progressive of you Major Nikon Jan 2014 #245

You are using a 20-year old study to justify precisely, what? What I am not understanding msanthrope Jan 2014 #247

Ad hominem, really? Major Nikon Jan 2014 #248

I'm not disagreeing with you that shared parenting is a good thing when it is in the best interests msanthrope Jan 2014 #249

For most (if not all) jurisdictions, shared custody is not the default Major Nikon Jan 2014 #251

+1 GreenEyedLefty Jan 2014 #159

That is a false equivalence. Darkhawk32 Jan 2014 #163

Please explain what you mean GreenEyedLefty Jan 2014 #167

It's true, the laws are written to be equal, but those same laws don't Darkhawk32 Jan 2014 #184

Or, I might add... justly. n/t GreenEyedLefty Jan 2014 #196

Right. Judges don't have to justify any decision they make. n/t Darkhawk32 Jan 2014 #203

Anecdote. AtheistCrusader Jan 2014 #85

I'm not talking about deadbeat parents, I'm talking about the GOOD ONES. Darkhawk32 Jan 2014 #99

With no data in hand to quantify what 'good one' means even. AtheistCrusader Jan 2014 #100

The ones that want to participate in their child's life. The ones that don't mind paying a Darkhawk32 Jan 2014 #101

Exactly. AtheistCrusader Jan 2014 #122

Not really. Why should we believe this Faux article, pnwmom Jan 2014 #138

I for one believe that Bush was busted for drunk driving. Jim Lane Jan 2014 #253

The Only Scam erpowers Jan 2014 #146

Not just men, non-custodial parents in general. GreenEyedLefty Jan 2014 #154

I think it's the American system. defacto7 Jan 2014 #74

Sadly, some of you missed the point ecstatic Jan 2014 #75

Thanks for introducing some rational thought 1000words Jan 2014 #84

Yeah, he's highly likely to lose his job over this. AtheistCrusader Jan 2014 #90

I would have told that stupid judge, who in the B Calm Jan 2014 #86

Why did I know it was in Texas before I even clicked the link. TxDemChem Jan 2014 #91

Because it clearly says Houston in the post including the link. n/t tammywammy Jan 2014 #96

I guess it shows up differently on my phone. TxDemChem Jan 2014 #134

I hope he's appealing Warpy Jan 2014 #130

It says he walked out of court after she found him in contempt, pnwmom Jan 2014 #137

He'll lose. He admits there was an arrearage and he is responsible for that. Further msanthrope Jan 2014 #186

I was all prepared to have sympathy for this guy kdmorris Jan 2014 #143

Carefully reading between the lines, this person was screwing around with the support and msanthrope Jan 2014 #187

Lots of judicial discretion in family law cases. Laelth Jan 2014 #153

The article is obviously only part of the story cthulu2016 Jan 2014 #182

Why does an entire system have to be a joke due to one failure? treestar Jan 2014 #193

What a bunch of malarkey! Nine Jan 2014 #231

Support Calista241 Jan 2014 #252