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haele

(15,412 posts)
46. Well, woo supplemented by careful habits is not "bad" if there isn't much of an issue to begin with.
Sun Jan 5, 2014, 05:29 PM
Jan 2014

Especially since one person has a different sense of what is an illness or pain than another person might be. But the caveat is that there is not much of an issue to begin with, and that the person isn't going whole hog into "it's natural, so it's all good" belief system that many hucksters pitching woo for profit.

Look, exercise, vitamins and specific dietary supplementation (a change of balance in the intake or citrus, leafy greens, garlic, fats, sugars, meat) are not really "woo" when used in a balanced manner to the healthy average person who doesn't have access to a good diet that includes fresh healthy food and regular doctor's visits. They are also not "woo" to a person who's condition or disease creates a lack or excess of a critical mineral in the body but is otherwise fairly fine (like coping with stress, pregnancy or during the recovery period from an injury or illness). A guy with kidney issues who needs to take a diuretic also may need a potassium supplement in his diet. A pregnant woman usually (not always) needs additional iron, calcium, vitamins A , D, and folic acid in the first trimester of her pregnancy.
I have a couple co-workers who, after getting a diagnosis of a condition and getting treated for it, now do the "no gluten/green tea" or "paleo-diet" that also do cross-fit, swim regularly, and see their doctors regularly for the conditions they have. Is it the diet, or the exercise, or the regular doctor's visits and monitoring of their body condition that is keeping them healthy as they age? Those co-workers will say it's their diet that "fixed" their condition, but the truth is that they went through a modern medical procedure to fix the problem, then have their doctors monitoring them and are now following good habits to keep the original condition at bay.

However, depending on a type of diet or supplement to "cure what ails ya" without real medical monitoring as a cure-all or medicine is Woo. It is not "holistic", it is dangerous as any other self-diagnosis can be.

Supplementals are supposed to "supplement" a medical process or make up for a specific lack - they're not going to cure. They can make you feel better, and if you don't have the instruments or tests to actually see what's going on, the appearance that you are being healed is purely subjective. That's where the woo comes in.
Y'know, when you're slowly dying of undiagnosed testicular cancer and genetic high cholesterol, but you're feeling better because your endorphins are being triggered through your brand new modified paleo-diet that is being promoted for testicular health, the protein supplements, and your new routine at the gym.
If you depend on your diet, exercise, and herbal products made Gawd-Knows-Where under questionable conditions that some homeopathic/paleo-vegan/"born-again Navajo Shaman"/private practice M.D. is hawking on the internet along with his/her newest "Wanna Feel Like You're 21 Forever" book which contains:
A 40 page psuedo-scientific (i.e. mash of his/her old college Botany 243 and Human Biology 324 notes checked against WebMD and the EU's naturopathic Medical Guide) hypothesis combined with,
the pilfered diary and formulary from their ex's Missouri midwife great-granny's home remedies,
a Punjabi Vegan cookbook from the 1960's, and,
a mix of Irish, "Sioux" and Basque folklore, bio-feedback, Tai-Chi, and New Age Mysticism...
...Well, you're not getting better, no matter how special and "better than modern medicine" the "treatment" seems to be. You have slipped into the Woo Zone. You will still die of either your testicular cancer or of problems brought on by your cholesterol, and it will be far sooner and the end would be more painful than if you had gotten to a responsible doctor with access to real equipment and treatment options in time to catch your condition and get it stabilized and regulated.

True, you could take a risk that you will be one of the 1 in 100,000 or so that might be stuck with a quack (like the one who wrote the "Wanna Feel Like You're 21 Forever" book, only with hospital privileges) or your insurance/health provider service will f* you over for profit, but Woo is far worse for someone who really has a problem than going to a doctor regularly is for someone who is pretty much healthy and doesn't need any medical assistance to remain so.

If you're healthy already, you can potentially maintain with judicious use of granny remedies, folk medicine, and good habits. Yes, I had a great X 3 midwife granny, who's diary and formulary are in a college archive somewhere and I've got copies that were passed down of some of her formulary; most of her remedies came down to a healthy, balanced diet, good hygiene habits, and basic herbalism for simple conditions and mild chronic ailments. But anything that would normally put people in the hospital - requiring surgery or long-term critical care, her remedies were all palliative, not curative.
The other thing to point out is that she was very careful to note that all of her herbs and other components, her tinctures and oils, her wines and syrups and salves, were grown or collected by her, and there were specific conditions that her components needed to be at before she would use them.
She didn't go down to the Walgreens, Trader Joes, or WalMart to get some "Naturella" brand St. Johns Wort capsules or Evening Primrose Oil - which could just as easily be processed in China from the stems, twigs, and sawdust at the bottom of the barrel using minimally filtered drain water and glycerin from factory hog hooves falsely labled as "vegan", because the supplemental market is unregulated.
G-G-G-Granny carefully went into the local fields or in her garden and picked and prepared those herbs and seeds to make her compounds herself. It was on her to insure the quality of her components, and even a difference of how much it rained the week prior or a few degrees in temperature or soil contamination could drastically affect the way her medicine worked - and she knew it. She watched helplessly sometimes as patients didn't get better, because it was a rainy or dry spring, or someone had dumped their still leavings and adversely affected the soil around the area she picked her field ginseng or Queen Anne's Lace that year.

So as much as I respect what she did at the time and her successes, trying to claim medicine of her day is better than modern medicine and using it beyond what it was intended to be used for is frankly Woo. It's "good in a pinch", but it's limited in the benefits it can actually bring.
An honest doctor recognizes and focuses on the points between when supplements and alternative procedures can help, and when they're just placebos to help the patient feel better while they're going through another treatment - or if they should be getting different treatment.
It's dangerous, dissembling and disturbing for a doctor to foist off the placebo effect as the "major component" of the treatment.

Just my two bits. (This was a bit more than 2 cents)

Haele

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

*fingers crossed for you* In_The_Wind Jan 2014 #1
Thank you In_The_Wind! ScreamingMeemie Jan 2014 #5
You deserve only the best my friend. May this year bring you happiness. In_The_Wind Jan 2014 #12
surely you don't mean to suggest that necessity... mike_c Jan 2014 #2
...desperation dear...desperation... ScreamingMeemie Jan 2014 #4
Some people think that if an event can't be explained by the criteria they apply, LuvNewcastle Jan 2014 #3
smh. more magical thinking. eqfan592 Jan 2014 #6
I'm saying some things turn reason on its head. LuvNewcastle Jan 2014 #11
did you just compare quantum theory to alternative "medice?" seriously? nt eqfan592 Jan 2014 #15
"Quantum" is now the go-to bullshit phrase for the pseudo-science crowd. Codeine Jan 2014 #18
No, I'm not a physicist or anything close to it, but I've read a few books about it. LuvNewcastle Jan 2014 #22
It was less about your post Codeine Jan 2014 #24
Why not? LuvNewcastle Jan 2014 #19
Oh, it's "apparent" that some cures work? eqfan592 Jan 2014 #20
I've known people who have tried alternative medicine for certain problems LuvNewcastle Jan 2014 #25
UNTIL a study has been done on it, i see little reason to believe it does. eqfan592 Jan 2014 #27
I'm all for studies. I don't know why more studies haven't been done on some of these things. LuvNewcastle Jan 2014 #29
Actually, they CAN in fact all be wrong. eqfan592 Jan 2014 #30
I think it all comes down to this. LuvNewcastle Jan 2014 #38
It would be nice if that was actually true. Ms. Toad Jan 2014 #45
They already know that herbs are science. They just try to come in and make trouble. loudsue Jan 2014 #9
I usually do ignore them; I don't know why I've even read some of these threads. LuvNewcastle Jan 2014 #14
the only "saboteurs" are those that promote non-science based medicine. eqfan592 Jan 2014 #16
Desperation sucks etherealtruth Jan 2014 #7
It sure does ShazzieB Jan 2014 #21
Welcome to DU! etherealtruth Jan 2014 #23
K and R bigwillq Jan 2014 #8
I guess the placebo effect customerserviceguy Jan 2014 #10
I went without health insurance for the last year and I didn't buy into woo. Vashta Nerada Jan 2014 #13
My physician wouldn't see me without an up ScreamingMeemie Jan 2014 #31
My doctor visits campus and it only costs $20 to see him. Vashta Nerada Jan 2014 #33
It is. ScreamingMeemie Jan 2014 #34
I'm glad you got your insurance card. Vashta Nerada Jan 2014 #36
Good luck! Make sure they treat you nice. ScreamingMeemie Jan 2014 #42
Well, don't feel bad.... Berlin Expat Jan 2014 #43
Best thoughts for your better treatment and good health! LeftishBrit Jan 2014 #17
I hope you receive the treatment you need. nt ZombieHorde Jan 2014 #26
Sorry, but BULLSHIT. Science didn't demand you pay up front - Capitalism did. progressoid Jan 2014 #28
Science. Sorry. ScreamingMeemie Jan 2014 #32
Congratulations. n-t Logical Jan 2014 #35
This. n/t jtuck004 Jan 2014 #37
You are right, ScreamingMeemie. Raine1967 Jan 2014 #39
My wife is a Wooist, and I support her. Courtesy Flush Jan 2014 #40
One more thing Courtesy Flush Jan 2014 #41
My friend with MS libodem Jan 2014 #44
Well, woo supplemented by careful habits is not "bad" if there isn't much of an issue to begin with. haele Jan 2014 #46
As always... Behind the Aegis Jan 2014 #47
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