General Discussion

msanthrope

(37,549 posts)

247. You are using a 20-year old study to justify precisely, what? What I am not understanding

Sun Jan 5, 2014, 06:24 PM

Jan 2014

is your claim "the primary caregiver is not the best parent." If they are not, then why are they the primary caregiver????

You see, when I used to do family law, this canard was often used. "She's not a fit Mom!" "He's not a fit Dad!" Really? They why is that parent given the childcare duties? Why are they the ones who have the children? Why is the person claiming to be a better parent unable to document their "better parenting?"

Many non-custodial parents fail to understand that family court is not there to grant rights and privileges they failed to exercise previously. If a primary caregiver is not fit BEFORE divorce to parent, then what was done about it?

Again--you haven't made an actual legal argument as to why presumptions should be changed.

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Man Over pays Child Support, And visits his son too much, Sentenced to 180 Days in Jail [View all] Heather MC Jan 2014 OP

Fox. Squinch Jan 2014 #1

I have never understood why two people that claimed to have loved each other dearly bluestate10 Jan 2014 #2

Before I was divorced, I felt the same way you do. GreenEyedLefty Jan 2014 #4

Divorce is an industry. mn9driver Jan 2014 #9

Oh so we should work for free? WolverineDG Jan 2014 #19

If you're a "family law" attorney, maybe you should. mn9driver Jan 2014 #25

Do you work for free? Or are you upset you had to pay for the problems you helped create? last1standing Jan 2014 #32

There are plenty of them.. sendero Jan 2014 #156

Yes there are a few & we know who they are (talking in terms of local bars) WolverineDG Jan 2014 #192

LOL. Anything to keep from having to take responsibility for your own problems. last1standing Jan 2014 #228

Nobody said anything. sendero Jan 2014 #241

Actually, the post I responded to said exactly that. last1standing Jan 2014 #242

Agreeing with part of what someone said.. sendero Jan 2014 #243

"Nobody said anything about anyone giving anything away." Isn't that what you wrote? last1standing Jan 2014 #244

Tsk, tsk... Changing your post after reading mine. Pathetic and sad. last1standing Jan 2014 #246

That's a seriously unfair comment for what sounds like a personal grudge jtuck004 Jan 2014 #35

Wow... we used a "family law" attorney when my husband adopted our daughter... ScreamingMeemie Jan 2014 #39

What's your job? Do you want to work for free? nt. Hosnon Jan 2014 #65

You know most family law attorneys would be happy just to charge a flat fee WolverineDG Jan 2014 #191

Agreed and they think they should not have to pay for your time! treestar Jan 2014 #195

We all get it. You hate your clients and you think they're garbage. Darkhawk32 Jan 2014 #208

It only takes one party to make a big payday for both attorneys. mn9driver Jan 2014 #221

Your divorce cost $200,000 in legal fees? Sheldon Cooper Jan 2014 #223

Yes. mn9driver Jan 2014 #225

That's pretty much how all law civil law works Major Nikon Jan 2014 #250

$120/hr Capt13 Jan 2014 #44

Yup, my lawyer did the same to me, charged me full hours when split his actual time with several .. Darkhawk32 Jan 2014 #108

How do you know what he charged all 6 clients? newcriminal Jan 2014 #119

He charged but did you pay? treestar Jan 2014 #197

Fraudulent billing is standard & customary practice in the legal profession. Egalitarian Thug Jan 2014 #133

Bullshit. newcriminal Jan 2014 #144

Which has nothing at all to do with the point made. Want to try again? n/t Egalitarian Thug Jan 2014 #169

Whether I misunderstood or not doesn't make your post correct. newcriminal Jan 2014 #170

LOL! You are either a complete legal novice, or you are a lawyer. Egalitarian Thug Jan 2014 #176

I had my lawyer call me, keep me on the phone for an hour and sent me a bill for $200. Darkhawk32 Jan 2014 #152

Was he talking about the weather or your case? newcriminal Jan 2014 #158

Wow, you can just keep calling your clients and racking up the bills, Darkhawk32 Jan 2014 #161

What a scam? newcriminal Jan 2014 #165

Yes, they could be "working". No way to verify anything really. Just "trust me". Darkhawk32 Jan 2014 #172

Even better, you can simply claim to have been thinking about a case and bill it. Egalitarian Thug Jan 2014 #171

Agreed. Over-inflated, egotistical bunch of sociopaths. Darkhawk32 Jan 2014 #173

So represent yourself. treestar Jan 2014 #205

Perhaps you need a different line of work, since you hate your clients. Darkhawk32 Jan 2014 #206

I don't; they don't mind paying me. treestar Jan 2014 #207

So in order to "play the game" you feel I must subject myself to fraudulent billing? Darkhawk32 Jan 2014 #209

I guess. In your dark world you have two choices treestar Jan 2014 #210

Yes, those are the two options left to many people. Darkhawk32 Jan 2014 #213

What do you propose? treestar Jan 2014 #216

I don't believe that. treestar Jan 2014 #198

I think lawyers charge exorbitant fees. Not that they have to work for free. Darkhawk32 Jan 2014 #109

No, you should work for a better world. Egalitarian Thug Jan 2014 #132

Lawyers whining about getting paid? 99Forever Jan 2014 #180

Maybe you shouldn't be paid either treestar Jan 2014 #200

How about you stop making unnecessary work that you get paid for? krispos42 Jan 2014 #181

If you know what work is necessary treestar Jan 2014 #214

Which only works... krispos42 Jan 2014 #232

That's admitting lawyers much know something? treestar Jan 2014 #233

All layers should be paid for by the state. ZombieHorde Jan 2014 #236

EVERYTHING is set up so lawyers make money.... Bennyboy Jan 2014 #66

You're delusional. newcriminal Jan 2014 #76

The client who expects the moon handed to them on a silver platter treestar Jan 2014 #199

Jonathan Swift writes about "The Law" (such as it is) -- Nuclear Unicorn Jan 2014 #219

Why shouldn't an attorney be paid in this case? nt msanthrope Jan 2014 #227

I have a dipshit ex son in law.... awoke_in_2003 Jan 2014 #11

I don't get it, either. Warpy Jan 2014 #131

It's what happens after. krispos42 Jan 2014 #185

Absolutely. treestar Jan 2014 #194

I've watched many members of my families do this. Shoulders of Giants Jan 2014 #211

Where does it say that he "overpays his child support and visits his son too much"? Sheldon Cooper Jan 2014 #3

The Lawyer said it. Gore1FL Jan 2014 #12

But that doesn't really prove anything. Sheldon Cooper Jan 2014 #13

That's fair. I never claimed otherwise. Gore1FL Jan 2014 #15

Thanks. Sheldon Cooper Jan 2014 #17

What? Ralph Scott Jan 2014 #136

Are you talking to me? Sheldon Cooper Jan 2014 #139

He paid very erratically, according to the article. Other than that quote, pnwmom Jan 2014 #135

I just answered the question: Gore1FL Jan 2014 #179

Something very similar happened to my husband Le Taz Hot Jan 2014 #5

I had to bail his ass out of jail. yeoman6987 Jan 2014 #28

Definitely one of those Le Taz Hot Jan 2014 #34

I used to work with somebody who couldn't get the State of California off his back Sen. Walter Sobchak Jan 2014 #31

The problem with California's system Le Taz Hot Jan 2014 #37

God you're telling me. ScreamingMeemie Jan 2014 #42

I'm going through the same thing... Darkhawk32 Jan 2014 #95

Look out, some here might think you're being disrespectful for women Darkhawk32 Jan 2014 #92

I have been a member of the DU "racist hetero patriarchy" for some time Sen. Walter Sobchak Jan 2014 #98

Just wish there was help for me in Missouri. Darkhawk32 Jan 2014 #103

As a divorced dad it's my experience that child "support" systems often start with the assumption villager Jan 2014 #36

Now, now, I've just been told Le Taz Hot Jan 2014 #226

There are always available apologists for every system's excess... villager Jan 2014 #235

Yes, it's severely scary for fathers out there. The system is just itching to screw them! Darkhawk32 Jan 2014 #50

Actually, non-custodial parents of either gender. For a time my ex had custody of my child GreenEyedLefty Jan 2014 #142

But the vast majority of NCP's are men. Darkhawk32 Jan 2014 #147

That statistic is changing... GreenEyedLefty Jan 2014 #157

I certainly hope you're right. Right now, the system just hurts kids, Darkhawk32 Jan 2014 #162

Child support cannot be increased without a hearing treestar Jan 2014 #201

Apparently there was a hearing of which he was not notified. Le Taz Hot Jan 2014 #212

They must have had "proof of service" in the file treestar Jan 2014 #215

You can argue all day long that the system is just, logical and legal, Le Taz Hot Jan 2014 #217

I at least have court rules and statutes to back me up treestar Jan 2014 #218

Whatever, dude. Le Taz Hot Jan 2014 #222

Wow that's determined to be unobjective to a great length treestar Jan 2014 #224

He didn't overpay. He paid the $3000 that owed but probably Luminous Animal Jan 2014 #6

That's ridiculous if they're going to change terms he needs to be notified Arcanetrance Jan 2014 #7

"Judge Millard tells Fox 26 after she found Hall in contempt he walked out of the courtroom" Gravitycollapse Jan 2014 #8

That was very stupid on his part you should never lose your cool in court Arcanetrance Jan 2014 #10

Is 180 days normal for contempt? Bradical79 Jan 2014 #178

If he had the money to pay his arrears and he's such a responsible father LeftyMom Jan 2014 #14

I agree. Sheldon Cooper Jan 2014 #16

Because his employer wasn't withholding from his wages properly WolverineDG Jan 2014 #20

Yes, but he gets paystubs and he knows that he has a child support obligation. LeftyMom Jan 2014 #22

Read the story again 1000words Jan 2014 #23

That's actually not always the best thing to do. Ms. Toad Jan 2014 #26

My ex was making payments into the Ohio system and had to do exactly that. LeftyMom Jan 2014 #38

I know fathers who have overpaid Ms. Toad Jan 2014 #48

I have a friend at work that overpaid by around $6000 because of HER not reporting income! Darkhawk32 Jan 2014 #51

Generally you have to go back to court Ms. Toad Jan 2014 #125

He did. The judge told him tough shit. Darkhawk32 Jan 2014 #148

My point is that it is not self-adjusting. Ms. Toad Jan 2014 #166

Yes, but if the change was not made previously because of the receiving parent's fraud, Darkhawk32 Jan 2014 #174

He did. The judge told him tough shit. Darkhawk32 Jan 2014 #148

Oh no, I meant to send the check to the CSPA (or local equivalent) NOT to the custodial parent. LeftyMom Jan 2014 #55

The problem with that is Ms. Toad Jan 2014 #126

yes but in Texas, the employer's order goes to the employer WolverineDG Jan 2014 #89

Also, if he was showing up fore visits (unscheduled) when he shouldn't be that is an issue itself. boston bean Jan 2014 #123

And any story about the system ought to be taken with a grain of salt treestar Jan 2014 #204

I would like to see the orders WolverineDG Jan 2014 #18

What bothers me is that he is being threatened with jail. Throw him in jail and it ruins madinmaryland Jan 2014 #27

If you listent to the video - Ms. Toad Jan 2014 #29

In my husband's custody, visitation & support orders in two states Mariana Jan 2014 #168

Just because pipi_k Jan 2014 #21

There is one error in your knowledge of the child support orders, Curmudgeoness Jan 2014 #43

I personally don't mind the payroll deduction. It ensures I know it is paid and that there are ... Darkhawk32 Jan 2014 #49

That is very true. islanderjen Jan 2014 #254

It is interesting that the military does not garnish Curmudgeoness Jan 2014 #255

Nothing in the article, Ms. Toad Jan 2014 #24

By any chance is the child support system in Texas privatized? tartan2 Jan 2014 #30

No nt WolverineDG Jan 2014 #94

This exposes the fact that in the family court system, men are treated like garbage. Darkhawk32 Jan 2014 #33

The feeling you get as a dad in the system is that "all are guilty," axiomatically villager Jan 2014 #40

I was told by a judge, IN COURT, to my face... Darkhawk32 Jan 2014 #67

Anybody want to tell me again that DU isn't infested with MRAs? LeftyMom Jan 2014 #41

Do you feel threatened by the notion of a man wanting equal rights to his children and... Darkhawk32 Jan 2014 #46

I was raised by a single father. Don't make assuptions. LeftyMom Jan 2014 #52

Did he have to deal with a family court as far as for joint/shared custody? Darkhawk32 Jan 2014 #56

Yes. LeftyMom Jan 2014 #59

So your mom was a deadbeat mom (lacking a better word for right now)? Darkhawk32 Jan 2014 #62

Yeah. Drug problem. LeftyMom Jan 2014 #68

It can, but doesn't do it equally. Darkhawk32 Jan 2014 #69

And to view that notion as an infestation makes you just as bad as ... Darkhawk32 Jan 2014 #47

Men who disrespect women aren't worthy of my respect. LeftyMom Jan 2014 #53

Oh no, you don't get to play that tired canard with me. Darkhawk32 Jan 2014 #58

Reread your post! You accused women of driving men away and exploiting them for money. LeftyMom Jan 2014 #60

BECAUSE SOME WOMEN DO THAT! AND USE THE SYSTEM TO DO IT! Darkhawk32 Jan 2014 #63

"It lends itself"... meaning it can lead to or facilitate. Darkhawk32 Jan 2014 #64

I'm sorry, but that's just stupid. The math doesn't work. LeftyMom Jan 2014 #73

If you truly believe that, you haven't been paying attention. Darkhawk32 Jan 2014 #78

I work full-time and pay 25% of my NET income in child support. Darkhawk32 Jan 2014 #79

If she's on welfare, she's not getting a dime of your child support kdmorris Jan 2014 #140

No, I truly believe that because I can do basic math. LeftyMom Jan 2014 #82

Mine fell... hers went up and she doesn't even have to work for it. Darkhawk32 Jan 2014 #83

You said she's on welfare. They don't give that out to people who are living well. LeftyMom Jan 2014 #88

She barely works, she gets $500+ a month on food stamps, my money, tax money (yes EIC included), Darkhawk32 Jan 2014 #97

No, she doesn't get those things. Your kids do. LeftyMom Jan 2014 #102

You need them 6 months and legally it's 6 months. Darkhawk32 Jan 2014 #104

Your kids are on welfare. LeftyMom Jan 2014 #107

I'm NOT on welfare Darkhawk32 Jan 2014 #111

Nobody said you were. LeftyMom Jan 2014 #112

Sorry, it's late and I had to re-read. Darkhawk32 Jan 2014 #113

Her not doing well is her CHOICE. She knows she doesn't HAVE to work because ... Darkhawk32 Jan 2014 #115

EIC: Not quite for divorced parents Ms. Toad Jan 2014 #128

By that measure he's supposed to claim them. LeftyMom Jan 2014 #129

Should have read the rest of the thread before I posted above kdmorris Jan 2014 #141

I've reported her for welfare fraud, but they don't investigate. Darkhawk32 Jan 2014 #145

I am not disputing that many men get treated unfairly kdmorris Jan 2014 #155

Yes, I'm bitter about the child custody. I've already admitted that. Darkhawk32 Jan 2014 #160

I get that you are frustrated kdmorris Jan 2014 #164

I know everybody has stories. We should all be working for a system that doesn't create these Darkhawk32 Jan 2014 #175

I think we already did agree on that kdmorris Jan 2014 #177

Because she gets to claim them because the judge says she gets to claim them. Darkhawk32 Jan 2014 #151

Most domestic court systems heavily favor the mother. Hosnon Jan 2014 #72

Exactly. Men fighting that system in order to become an equal parent under the law shows... Darkhawk32 Jan 2014 #77

When it really comes down to it. A lot of mothers (not all) really don't want the fathers around. Darkhawk32 Jan 2014 #80

So the experiences we have as fathers of being treated a certain way by the system... villager Jan 2014 #81

Oh noes the MRA Union Scribe Jan 2014 #120

Unbelievable 1000words Jan 2014 #127

That's just not true. newcriminal Jan 2014 #45

And you know this how? Darkhawk32 Jan 2014 #54

My husband is a family court lawyer and I work with him. newcriminal Jan 2014 #57

So he's part of the system. If he doesn't see there's a bias, then he's lying. Darkhawk32 Jan 2014 #61

That's bullshit. newcriminal Jan 2014 #70

Not nearly as many women as men... not even close. Darkhawk32 Jan 2014 #71

Cite your data. AtheistCrusader Jan 2014 #87

When joint custody is not the default arrangement, the system will always favor women Major Nikon Jan 2014 #93

I don't believe that. newcriminal Jan 2014 #105

So a man that did the right thing and supported his family BEFORE the divorce, Darkhawk32 Jan 2014 #106

No, I didn't. newcriminal Jan 2014 #110

So you're saying that men who worked before the divorce aren't equal parents Darkhawk32 Jan 2014 #114

First, you've assumed that the father just isn't normally capable of being an equal parent Darkhawk32 Jan 2014 #116

You obviously have had a bad experience with your custody battle and newcriminal Jan 2014 #117

I didn't misquote you at all. If the father worked, the mother should have the upper hand. Darkhawk32 Jan 2014 #118

Again I never said if the Father works the Mother should have the upper hand. newcriminal Jan 2014 #121

Both can be and often are primary care givers Major Nikon Jan 2014 #124

Here, here. Darkhawk32 Jan 2014 #150

Joint physical should not be the default because it does not adequately address the needs of the msanthrope Jan 2014 #183

Default does not mean all other considerations are tossed into the wind Major Nikon Jan 2014 #188

But when you change the default, you but an unreasonable burden on the primary caregiver, msanthrope Jan 2014 #189

You didn't describe why it's unreasonable Major Nikon Jan 2014 #190

First, a default that does not take into account the well-being of the child is patently msanthrope Jan 2014 #202

Custodial orders don't even happen unless the parents can't work them out on their own Major Nikon Jan 2014 #220

I think you haven't read the law you are touting. And if you have read it, you haven't msanthrope Jan 2014 #229

Do you actually think that isn't happening now? Major Nikon Jan 2014 #230

Equal parenting is not always in the best interests of the child. Sorry....but it's not. You are msanthrope Jan 2014 #234

Anecdotal evidence is shit and you either already know it or should know it Major Nikon Jan 2014 #237

I didn't give you anecdotal evidence. I gave you valid hypos which underscore the bad law you tout. msanthrope Jan 2014 #238

Which is even worse than anecdotal evidence Major Nikon Jan 2014 #239

You are the one advocating for a change in law, it is you who must provide proof that msanthrope Jan 2014 #240

How progressive of you Major Nikon Jan 2014 #245

You are using a 20-year old study to justify precisely, what? What I am not understanding msanthrope Jan 2014 #247

Ad hominem, really? Major Nikon Jan 2014 #248

I'm not disagreeing with you that shared parenting is a good thing when it is in the best interests msanthrope Jan 2014 #249

For most (if not all) jurisdictions, shared custody is not the default Major Nikon Jan 2014 #251

+1 GreenEyedLefty Jan 2014 #159

That is a false equivalence. Darkhawk32 Jan 2014 #163

Please explain what you mean GreenEyedLefty Jan 2014 #167

It's true, the laws are written to be equal, but those same laws don't Darkhawk32 Jan 2014 #184

Or, I might add... justly. n/t GreenEyedLefty Jan 2014 #196

Right. Judges don't have to justify any decision they make. n/t Darkhawk32 Jan 2014 #203

Anecdote. AtheistCrusader Jan 2014 #85

I'm not talking about deadbeat parents, I'm talking about the GOOD ONES. Darkhawk32 Jan 2014 #99

With no data in hand to quantify what 'good one' means even. AtheistCrusader Jan 2014 #100

The ones that want to participate in their child's life. The ones that don't mind paying a Darkhawk32 Jan 2014 #101

Exactly. AtheistCrusader Jan 2014 #122

Not really. Why should we believe this Faux article, pnwmom Jan 2014 #138

I for one believe that Bush was busted for drunk driving. Jim Lane Jan 2014 #253

The Only Scam erpowers Jan 2014 #146

Not just men, non-custodial parents in general. GreenEyedLefty Jan 2014 #154

I think it's the American system. defacto7 Jan 2014 #74

Sadly, some of you missed the point ecstatic Jan 2014 #75

Thanks for introducing some rational thought 1000words Jan 2014 #84

Yeah, he's highly likely to lose his job over this. AtheistCrusader Jan 2014 #90

I would have told that stupid judge, who in the B Calm Jan 2014 #86

Why did I know it was in Texas before I even clicked the link. TxDemChem Jan 2014 #91

Because it clearly says Houston in the post including the link. n/t tammywammy Jan 2014 #96

I guess it shows up differently on my phone. TxDemChem Jan 2014 #134

I hope he's appealing Warpy Jan 2014 #130

It says he walked out of court after she found him in contempt, pnwmom Jan 2014 #137

He'll lose. He admits there was an arrearage and he is responsible for that. Further msanthrope Jan 2014 #186

I was all prepared to have sympathy for this guy kdmorris Jan 2014 #143

Carefully reading between the lines, this person was screwing around with the support and msanthrope Jan 2014 #187

Lots of judicial discretion in family law cases. Laelth Jan 2014 #153

The article is obviously only part of the story cthulu2016 Jan 2014 #182

Why does an entire system have to be a joke due to one failure? treestar Jan 2014 #193

What a bunch of malarkey! Nine Jan 2014 #231

Support Calista241 Jan 2014 #252