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The Velveteen Ocelot

(129,904 posts)

5. A few years ago I had trouble with my knee.

Sun Jan 5, 2014, 07:19 PM

Jan 2014

I got cortisone shots, which worked temporarily, but the pain got worse, to the point where I was limping noticeably and had trouble climbing stairs. Someone suggested acupuncture, but I was skeptical. Finally, though, I decided to try it, figured I didn't have much to lose, since the knee wasn't getting better. After the first treatment, much to my surprise my knee felt better, and after about six weeks of treatments the pain was gone. I have had no trouble since.

I don't know for sure whether the acupuncture actually worked. Maybe my knee would have got better anyhow, or maybe there was a placebo effect. I know that post hoc, ergo propter hoc is a fallacy, and anecdotal evidence by itself is meaningless. I don't know what to think, since I am as devoutly anti-"woo" as the next person; I have no use for crystals or homeopathy or aromatherapy. I can't definitively say acupuncture works, except that my knee hurt a lot before I tried it, and didn't hurt at all afterwards.

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I've been an RN for almost 20 years. [View all] Texasgal Jan 2014 OP

I have friends for whom acupuncture has worked incredibly well. JaneyVee Jan 2014 #1

Wait... A blunt force injury got better after just five weeks? Orrex Jan 2014 #2

I didn't have to take Texasgal Jan 2014 #3

Well, I'm glad that you recovered Orrex Jan 2014 #4

Of course I did. I'm an RN. Texasgal Jan 2014 #6

So basically you got a treatment that may have worked like the ultrasonic machine I had used... Humanist_Activist Jan 2014 #19

do you mean a tens unit? dionysus Jan 2014 #141

No, my fiancee had one for her back though, it helped her a lot... Humanist_Activist Jan 2014 #192

gotcha. i have a tens unit from when i blew a disc. nice little machine. dionysus Jan 2014 #194

So even though it uses the same theory Ms. Toad Jan 2014 #177

When the risks are unnecessary, then we shouldn't take them, isn't that correct? Humanist_Activist Jan 2014 #191

That is really up to the individual making that decision. Ms. Toad Jan 2014 #199

But whether something is woo or not is not connected to whether pnwmom Jan 2014 #208

I found it worked wonders for chronic hip and lower back pain until I got the hip finally replaced Katashi_itto Jan 2014 #218

I'm sure you realize that there are many treatments commonly pnwmom Jan 2014 #206

Just shut up and take your Oxycontin like a normal person. tridim Jan 2014 #10

WOO no! Not before we MyNameGoesHere Jan 2014 #88

I know, right? RC Jan 2014 #46

Yet strangely I was sore for five days after stepping on a nail Scootaloo Jan 2014 #185

How weird! NuclearDem Jan 2014 #197

A few years ago I had trouble with my knee. The Velveteen Ocelot Jan 2014 #5

I'm not into that either. Texasgal Jan 2014 #8

There are a lot of well structured double-blind studies out there that support the Squinch Jan 2014 #69

I'm not trying to be snarky but just wonder how a double-blind study for acupuncture would work? n/t A Simple Game Jan 2014 #116

dull needles? HERVEPA Jan 2014 #121

The ones I have seen will choose similar issues: for example, low back pain that is of Squinch Jan 2014 #127

Sorry, that doesn't sound like a double-blind study. A Simple Game Jan 2014 #156

Passed review at an Ivy league medical school. Squinch Jan 2014 #161

It seems the only way to be double blind would be for all to get what they believed to be the same A Simple Game Jan 2014 #184

From what I understand laundry_queen Jan 2014 #204

That makes sense, thanks. n/t A Simple Game Jan 2014 #207

I've had good experience with acupuncture, chiro and therapeutic massage. Some think such things are freshwest Jan 2014 #82

Thank you Freshwest Texasgal Jan 2014 #171

Thank you for that. I edited it and thought, 'Golly, it's just too long!' TY for being you! n/t freshwest Jan 2014 #190

The big vet schools are doing it Mojorabbit Jan 2014 #36

they would have it to some degree dsc Jan 2014 #47

relief homegirl Jan 2014 #167

I didn't try acupuncture for my shoulder, but murielm99 Jan 2014 #7

My sister and I both had frozen ohheckyeah Jan 2014 #28

Why would anyone consider massage therapy woo? Thirties Child Jan 2014 #170

And people taking sugar pills think they work in studies? Placebo Effect. n-t Logical Jan 2014 #9

Studies have found it works on pain NutmegYankee Jan 2014 #14

See response number 15, for another wrinkle on the truedelphi Jan 2014 #38

I used to go to a chiropractor when my back went out and I was young and stupid.... Logical Jan 2014 #11

I have gone to more than one for slipped discs in my neck. Both times I tried all manner of VanillaRhapsody Jan 2014 #29

My beloved dog Charlie suffered a lot from arthritis in his back. truebluegreen Jan 2014 #12

I had acupuncture myself and got immediate relief. My darling Gretchen suffered a pinched nerve Thinkingabout Jan 2014 #23

the vet did the acupuncture? Skittles Jan 2014 #42

no, in fact princess pretty paws fell asleep irisblue Jan 2014 #202

I'm pretty sure my hairy devil feline would go ape-shit Skittles Jan 2014 #203

Yes, she did. truebluegreen Jan 2014 #211

interesting Skittles Jan 2014 #212

Just ETA a picture... truebluegreen Jan 2014 #213

complying cat homegirl Jan 2014 #243

Wow. Charlie always knew also... truebluegreen Jan 2014 #244

Since when is acupuncture "natural"? Humanist_Activist Jan 2014 #13

PT is natural too. Texasgal Jan 2014 #15

No, please define natural. Humanist_Activist Jan 2014 #17

Kinda like eating prunes Texasgal Jan 2014 #20

Argument from tradition? Really? n/t Humanist_Activist Jan 2014 #22

why are you so angry? Texasgal Jan 2014 #27

Because you are using logical fallacies to support your point... Humanist_Activist Jan 2014 #35

Call that DU'er out and stop being a jerk off to me then. Texasgal Jan 2014 #43

Did I say your experience was a fallacy? No I did not. Humanist_Activist Jan 2014 #52

I am not opposed to that at all. Texasgal Jan 2014 #63

You are the one who said that modern medicine isn't the answer for everything... Humanist_Activist Jan 2014 #72

Do you agree that Texasgal Jan 2014 #78

In general yes, why? That's stuff that has actually been tested in clinical settings as well... Humanist_Activist Jan 2014 #80

You haven't read much up on accupunture then. Texasgal Jan 2014 #83

Did I claim there weren't? I've already conceded that it can be effective... Humanist_Activist Jan 2014 #90

Do you have the stats on people Texasgal Jan 2014 #92

Here Orrex Jan 2014 #95

I've heard of acupuncturists who punch needles too deep, use improper sterilization techniques, etc. Humanist_Activist Jan 2014 #98

This is true. Texasgal Jan 2014 #114

No everything that is not hard-core medical industry whatever is LisaLynne Jan 2014 #16

My hot screaming baby found that Hyland's teething tablets worked. mahina Jan 2014 #18

"Don't know why, don't care." This I simply do not understand... Humanist_Activist Jan 2014 #21

Why aren't you curious as to how acupuncture works? Th1onein Jan 2014 #40

Did you read some of my posts above? I guess not. n/t Humanist_Activist Jan 2014 #41

I read them all. Every single one of them. Th1onein Jan 2014 #45

So, you concede that your post to me was a false accusation? n/t Humanist_Activist Jan 2014 #54

Not at all. Th1onein Jan 2014 #151

I have. And they're mean, angry, and wholly uncompromising in any way. BlueCaliDem Jan 2014 #91

It was given to me as a gift. When I saw the contents, I remember thinking mahina Jan 2014 #44

It didn't contain belladona... SidDithers Jan 2014 #96

And thanks for the ad hominem attack. mahina Jan 2014 #55

But you are gleefully and willfully ignorant, you said so yourself... Humanist_Activist Jan 2014 #62

Oh good grief, this again???! Tumbulu Jan 2014 #165

When did you use Hylands Homeopathic Teething tablets? etherealtruth Jan 2014 #25

Long enough ago not to worry about a recall. mahina Jan 2014 #49

Oh good etherealtruth Jan 2014 #53

This message was self-deleted by its author Humanist_Activist Jan 2014 #65

Basically the little kids were tripping their brains out, no wonder it worked. Warren Stupidity Jan 2014 #107

Trust you have some personal experience to share. mahina Jan 2014 #108

noo... a little research, even then in the 60's way before wikipedia Warren Stupidity Jan 2014 #229

I know etherealtruth Jan 2014 #110

I read it, but find the two anti-homeopathic arguments contradictory. mahina Jan 2014 #126

the supplement industry isn't regulated like the drug industry is etherealtruth Jan 2014 #136

I've cured or eased headaches by using reflexology pressure points Whisp Jan 2014 #24

Is acupuncture natural? elias7 Jan 2014 #26

I agree. Sometimes natural things work, and sometimes prescription medication works Sarah Ibarruri Jan 2014 #30

my sister had trigeminal neuralgia and took the prescription medication for a few years renate Jan 2014 #210

Exactly. Some people feel that they have to defend prescription meds... Sarah Ibarruri Jan 2014 #241

I fell down the stairs last year and suffered a very bad ankle sprain. MindPilot Jan 2014 #31

I am so glad to hear that! Texasgal Jan 2014 #34

Yeah, they gave me some pain pills which didn't do much. MindPilot Jan 2014 #50

It would be wise to get a CT scan to rule out rotator cuff tears. John1956PA Jan 2014 #32

I'm well aware. Texasgal Jan 2014 #37

It is amazing when you share a story of success there are post which sounds RW. Thinkingabout Jan 2014 #33

I know... it's weird. Texasgal Jan 2014 #39

It's amazing that you equate science advocacy with RW. Orrex Jan 2014 #51

When a post is styled in the RW fashion. Sounds like FAUX noose. Thinkingabout Jan 2014 #60

What post are you talking about? Orrex Jan 2014 #64

My response to texasgal was in general, from her answer she understood what I was saying. Thinkingabout Jan 2014 #74

So... It's a call-out without the courage to call anyone out. Orrex Jan 2014 #77

what is the problem? are you having a bad day? i dont like RW post. Thinkingabout Jan 2014 #99

You haven't identified a RW post. Orrex Jan 2014 #100

Do you know about colloquialism? Thinkingabout Jan 2014 #103

So, there isn't actually a RW post, and you were simply flinging accusations. Orrex Jan 2014 #106

No I will not admit there are not any RW post here, why are you trying to get me to agree either way Thinkingabout Jan 2014 #112

Nope. Not angry at all--you're attempting a lame rhetorical distraction. Orrex Jan 2014 #118

The answer to you is the same, you can accuse me of whatever makes your heart happy. Thinkingabout Jan 2014 #134

I've accused you only of lacking the courage to back up your own accusations Orrex Jan 2014 #137

You know, your dog don't hunt. Thinkingabout Jan 2014 #147

I'm surprised you didn't accuse my dog of being RW. Orrex Jan 2014 #150

It's Texan talk Thinkingabout Jan 2014 #163

Big fans of baseless accusations in Texas, are they? Orrex Jan 2014 #164

So pleasant you are. Texasgal Jan 2014 #173

Bless his heart. truebluegreen Jan 2014 #214

That's a great Texan expression. Love the Ann Richards avatar. Wendy for Governor!! n/t freshwest Jan 2014 #172

I feel sorry for some, isn't it great to live in Texas? I still love the state, doesn't matter Thinkingabout Jan 2014 #176

I don't live there anymore, but for a time it was the best! GOTV! n/t freshwest Jan 2014 #182

acupuncture is an excellent example of the conflict between woo and non-woo.... mike_c Jan 2014 #48

Same for some Chiropractic practices, certain types of massages, etc. Humanist_Activist Jan 2014 #57

I wish I knew where to stick the needle to remove the nastiness from this thread Marrah_G Jan 2014 #56

Hear here! Exactly. K&R, nt. druidity33 Jan 2014 #113

I put tiger repellent on every day, and I haven't been attacked. It works! X_Digger Jan 2014 #58

I went for the strawberry after trying to escape the tigers. You decide what happened: freshwest Jan 2014 #181

You should lose your license whistler162 Jan 2014 #59

Acupuncture can work Warpy Jan 2014 #61

Good response Notafraidtoo Jan 2014 #209

I am a bit surprised that there comments here saying pangaia Jan 2014 #66

why the surpise? Texasgal Jan 2014 #68

Thanks TEX. pangaia Jan 2014 #71

Whatever it is, it's not as much fun as pitching woo. n/t freshwest Jan 2014 #175

I would say they stumbled upon it through trial and error... Humanist_Activist Jan 2014 #70

Citation, please. Orrex Jan 2014 #89

Here's an interesting read X_Digger Jan 2014 #159

"It worked" and some things just get better themselves, which is why Bernardo de La Paz Jan 2014 #67

My thoughts exactly bhikkhu Jan 2014 #102

Anecdotal evidence does not equal scientific evidence. Vashta Nerada Jan 2014 #73

You're unfuking believable. darkangel218 Jan 2014 #76

Aren't nurses supposed to know that? Vashta Nerada Jan 2014 #123

This message was self-deleted by its author darkangel218 Jan 2014 #125

Its about time i block you. darkangel218 Jan 2014 #130

Have a nice vacation starting tomorrow. Vashta Nerada Jan 2014 #132

Good luck on DU. darkangel218 Jan 2014 #133

You're not a happy person. 840high Jan 2014 #153

I'm curious, what exactly in that post is "unfuking believable"? n/t tammywammy Jan 2014 #131

I was thinking the same thing. nt Quixote1818 Jan 2014 #169

The basis of medicine is unfucking believable? jeff47 Jan 2014 #179

Acupuncture alleviates pain by triggering endorphin production. Tanuki Jan 2014 #75

Pain relief is important, but it doesn't cause healing bhikkhu Jan 2014 #105

I frankly don't get calling a whole other culture's medicine 'woo'. Matariki Jan 2014 #79

Just like western folk medicine, it should be tested for effectiveness and safety, the stuff that... Humanist_Activist Jan 2014 #84

Acupuncture has been pretty extensively tested for safety and effectiveness Squinch Jan 2014 #135

Problem is they found it's equally effective when the person sticking in the needles jeff47 Jan 2014 #180

I used to need cortisone shots in my lower spine 2 or 3 times a year forlow back pain LiberalEsto Jan 2014 #81

Is acupuncture covered by insurance? Curmudgeoness Jan 2014 #85

Yes. Texasgal Jan 2014 #87

Acupuncture is mainstream medicine in many parts of Asia. Cleita Jan 2014 #86

Red herring. No one is claiming that western medicine has all the answers. Orrex Jan 2014 #97

Well, then shouldn't all you science whizzes be Cleita Jan 2014 #104

It is up to the claimant to verify the claim Orrex Jan 2014 #109

Then you can't dismiss such a practice without proof that it Cleita Jan 2014 #115

I can state with confidence that qi has never been empirically shown to exist Orrex Jan 2014 #122

Changing up the verbage to disagree with? Texasgal Jan 2014 #124

You work in medicine? Really? Orrex Jan 2014 #129

Proud surgical nurse here. Texasgal Jan 2014 #138

Be sure to tell them that you don't care how medicine does or doesn't work. Orrex Jan 2014 #144

I love DU'ers like you. Texasgal Jan 2014 #155

Replying to your own post? Well, self-love is important. Orrex Jan 2014 #162

Maybe it doesn't work that way but seems to work nonetheless. Cleita Jan 2014 #142

To an extent, yes. Orrex Jan 2014 #149

It works because people are told it works. NuclearDem Jan 2014 #200

And why is the placebo effect a bad thing? Cleita Jan 2014 #231

Hospitalized in the 70's, I asked about acupuncture; the doctors ALL guffawed, called me and the ancianita Jan 2014 #93

I'm one of those dreadful fact-based humanoids. Mopar151 Jan 2014 #94

I was very skeptical of trigger point massage myself but it seems to Cleita Jan 2014 #120

Acupuncture has been around for thousands of years. BlueCaliDem Jan 2014 #101

Qi has never been demonstrated to exist. Not once. Not anywhere. Not ever. Orrex Jan 2014 #111

Not to say that acupuncture qualifies but truebluegreen Jan 2014 #215

Clarke also believed in cold fusion Orrex Jan 2014 #220

Whatevs, dude. Thanks for reading my mind truebluegreen Jan 2014 #221

Well, you posted the same thing in two separate threads today Orrex Jan 2014 #224

Christianity has been around for 2,000 years. Vashta Nerada Jan 2014 #128

Accupuncture is a fucking applied science, darkangel218 Jan 2014 #139

Applied science? Vashta Nerada Jan 2014 #143

Just fucking go away. Take your personal attacks elsewhere. darkangel218 Jan 2014 #145

See my edit. Vashta Nerada Jan 2014 #146

No thanks. youre blocked. darkangel218 Jan 2014 #148

Yeah! NOW you think the Mayo Clinic is a legitimate source! IdaBriggs Jan 2014 #186

If that were true, it would matter where the needles go. jeff47 Jan 2014 #183

Doesn't mean it's wrong, either. BlueCaliDem Jan 2014 #174

Alright, "it's been around a really long time" doesn't mean "it's science!" NuclearDem Jan 2014 #196

It's "all right", not "alright" . . . and do you really believe that the Chinese don't do BlueCaliDem Jan 2014 #222

Chinese advancements in clothing have fuck all to do with the validity of TCM. NuclearDem Jan 2014 #223

Goes to historic credibility in cultural advancement. Don't be mad. Be open-minded. BlueCaliDem Jan 2014 #226

The American Cancer Society says your miracle cancer drug is grade-A bullcrap. NuclearDem Jan 2014 #230

The American Cancer Society *of course* would deny the research and studies BlueCaliDem Jan 2014 #232

Alright, you are just way too far gone into this crazy shit. NuclearDem Jan 2014 #233

Did you even read the article? Or did your prejudice and stung ego get in the way BlueCaliDem Jan 2014 #238

There's some evidence for the effectiveness of acupuncture naturallyselected Jan 2014 #117

Ahem ... GeorgeGist Jan 2014 #119

Is there any way I can put the word "woo" on ignore so I never never have to read it again? NBachers Jan 2014 #140

Click on "My Account" at the top Vashta Nerada Jan 2014 #152

Well that was a quick reply- I didn't think there was actually a way to do it. Thanks! NBachers Jan 2014 #154

I've done exactly that! 1000words Jan 2014 #201

My acupuncturist "moonlights" as a nurse practitioner. 1000words Jan 2014 #157

Mine was a Columbia University-educated physician... WorseBeforeBetter Jan 2014 #193

Acupuncture works very well for some things... nikto Jan 2014 #158

and sometimes a blind squirrel find a nut 4dsc Jan 2014 #160

Reminds me of this quote by Tim Minchin Quixote1818 Jan 2014 #166

Clueless you are. Texasgal Jan 2014 #168

Its a scam. 4dsc Jan 2014 #217

Have you ever trieed either? Thinkingabout Jan 2014 #227

my lower back and the before & after x-rays differ... Scout Jan 2014 #242

Acupuncture <> woo, Benton D Struckcheon Jan 2014 #178

Which journal is her peer reviewed study published in? Quixote1818 Jan 2014 #187

Not sure why snark is the instant response Benton D Struckcheon Jan 2014 #189

Thanks, this is good Quixote1818 Jan 2014 #198

What's natural about shoving needles in your flesh? longship Jan 2014 #188

How is healing a hurt shoulder in five weeks unusual? LeftyMom Jan 2014 #195

It helped my pain. Texasgal Jan 2014 #228

You got better on your own - it happens intaglio Jan 2014 #205

"Worked" MellowDem Jan 2014 #216

I don't consider acupuncture to be woo. As wikipedia notes... stevenleser Jan 2014 #219

I have a similar story tavalon Jan 2014 #225

In 1980, I had to pay an AMA doctor... freebrew Jan 2014 #234

Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't Rider3 Jan 2014 #235

K&R… I've been an RT 39 years, and work around some excellent researchers... MrMickeysMom Jan 2014 #236

+1000 Cleita Jan 2014 #237

One incident is not enough to conclude anything. athena Jan 2014 #239

What is "natural" about accupuncture? cthulu2016 Jan 2014 #240