General Discussion

Squinch

(59,622 posts)

127. The ones I have seen will choose similar issues: for example, low back pain that is of

Sun Jan 5, 2014, 10:13 PM

Jan 2014

duration of more than 6 months and fewer than 9 months that has not responded to physical therapy. There are a lot of those folks out there, so you can get a reasonable number of participants. Give half Acupuncture, give the other half no acupuncture, measure mobility before and after the period of treatment.

When I was getting a masters in a related area 15 years ago, they were beginning to be able to aggregate studies, and there were some that had been going on for a long time, taking a lot of patients over a number of years, so that inter rater reliability was high.

Another interesting "woo" modality that is provably effective according to double-blind studies: Practicing Qi Gong measurably reduces falls in the elderly population who are at the age when falls are a major contributor to fatalities.

Woo rocks!

Edit history

Please sign in to view edit histories.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

244 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

I've been an RN for almost 20 years. [View all] Texasgal Jan 2014 OP

I have friends for whom acupuncture has worked incredibly well. JaneyVee Jan 2014 #1

Wait... A blunt force injury got better after just five weeks? Orrex Jan 2014 #2

I didn't have to take Texasgal Jan 2014 #3

Well, I'm glad that you recovered Orrex Jan 2014 #4

Of course I did. I'm an RN. Texasgal Jan 2014 #6

So basically you got a treatment that may have worked like the ultrasonic machine I had used... Humanist_Activist Jan 2014 #19

do you mean a tens unit? dionysus Jan 2014 #141

No, my fiancee had one for her back though, it helped her a lot... Humanist_Activist Jan 2014 #192

gotcha. i have a tens unit from when i blew a disc. nice little machine. dionysus Jan 2014 #194

So even though it uses the same theory Ms. Toad Jan 2014 #177

When the risks are unnecessary, then we shouldn't take them, isn't that correct? Humanist_Activist Jan 2014 #191

That is really up to the individual making that decision. Ms. Toad Jan 2014 #199

But whether something is woo or not is not connected to whether pnwmom Jan 2014 #208

I found it worked wonders for chronic hip and lower back pain until I got the hip finally replaced Katashi_itto Jan 2014 #218

I'm sure you realize that there are many treatments commonly pnwmom Jan 2014 #206

Just shut up and take your Oxycontin like a normal person. tridim Jan 2014 #10

WOO no! Not before we MyNameGoesHere Jan 2014 #88

I know, right? RC Jan 2014 #46

Yet strangely I was sore for five days after stepping on a nail Scootaloo Jan 2014 #185

How weird! NuclearDem Jan 2014 #197

A few years ago I had trouble with my knee. The Velveteen Ocelot Jan 2014 #5

I'm not into that either. Texasgal Jan 2014 #8

There are a lot of well structured double-blind studies out there that support the Squinch Jan 2014 #69

I'm not trying to be snarky but just wonder how a double-blind study for acupuncture would work? n/t A Simple Game Jan 2014 #116

dull needles? HERVEPA Jan 2014 #121

The ones I have seen will choose similar issues: for example, low back pain that is of Squinch Jan 2014 #127

Sorry, that doesn't sound like a double-blind study. A Simple Game Jan 2014 #156

Passed review at an Ivy league medical school. Squinch Jan 2014 #161

It seems the only way to be double blind would be for all to get what they believed to be the same A Simple Game Jan 2014 #184

From what I understand laundry_queen Jan 2014 #204

That makes sense, thanks. n/t A Simple Game Jan 2014 #207

I've had good experience with acupuncture, chiro and therapeutic massage. Some think such things are freshwest Jan 2014 #82

Thank you Freshwest Texasgal Jan 2014 #171

Thank you for that. I edited it and thought, 'Golly, it's just too long!' TY for being you! n/t freshwest Jan 2014 #190

The big vet schools are doing it Mojorabbit Jan 2014 #36

they would have it to some degree dsc Jan 2014 #47

relief homegirl Jan 2014 #167

I didn't try acupuncture for my shoulder, but murielm99 Jan 2014 #7

My sister and I both had frozen ohheckyeah Jan 2014 #28

Why would anyone consider massage therapy woo? Thirties Child Jan 2014 #170

And people taking sugar pills think they work in studies? Placebo Effect. n-t Logical Jan 2014 #9

Studies have found it works on pain NutmegYankee Jan 2014 #14

See response number 15, for another wrinkle on the truedelphi Jan 2014 #38

I used to go to a chiropractor when my back went out and I was young and stupid.... Logical Jan 2014 #11

I have gone to more than one for slipped discs in my neck. Both times I tried all manner of VanillaRhapsody Jan 2014 #29

My beloved dog Charlie suffered a lot from arthritis in his back. truebluegreen Jan 2014 #12

I had acupuncture myself and got immediate relief. My darling Gretchen suffered a pinched nerve Thinkingabout Jan 2014 #23

the vet did the acupuncture? Skittles Jan 2014 #42

no, in fact princess pretty paws fell asleep irisblue Jan 2014 #202

I'm pretty sure my hairy devil feline would go ape-shit Skittles Jan 2014 #203

Yes, she did. truebluegreen Jan 2014 #211

interesting Skittles Jan 2014 #212

Just ETA a picture... truebluegreen Jan 2014 #213

complying cat homegirl Jan 2014 #243

Wow. Charlie always knew also... truebluegreen Jan 2014 #244

Since when is acupuncture "natural"? Humanist_Activist Jan 2014 #13

PT is natural too. Texasgal Jan 2014 #15

No, please define natural. Humanist_Activist Jan 2014 #17

Kinda like eating prunes Texasgal Jan 2014 #20

Argument from tradition? Really? n/t Humanist_Activist Jan 2014 #22

why are you so angry? Texasgal Jan 2014 #27

Because you are using logical fallacies to support your point... Humanist_Activist Jan 2014 #35

Call that DU'er out and stop being a jerk off to me then. Texasgal Jan 2014 #43

Did I say your experience was a fallacy? No I did not. Humanist_Activist Jan 2014 #52

I am not opposed to that at all. Texasgal Jan 2014 #63

You are the one who said that modern medicine isn't the answer for everything... Humanist_Activist Jan 2014 #72

Do you agree that Texasgal Jan 2014 #78

In general yes, why? That's stuff that has actually been tested in clinical settings as well... Humanist_Activist Jan 2014 #80

You haven't read much up on accupunture then. Texasgal Jan 2014 #83

Did I claim there weren't? I've already conceded that it can be effective... Humanist_Activist Jan 2014 #90

Do you have the stats on people Texasgal Jan 2014 #92

Here Orrex Jan 2014 #95

I've heard of acupuncturists who punch needles too deep, use improper sterilization techniques, etc. Humanist_Activist Jan 2014 #98

This is true. Texasgal Jan 2014 #114

No everything that is not hard-core medical industry whatever is LisaLynne Jan 2014 #16

My hot screaming baby found that Hyland's teething tablets worked. mahina Jan 2014 #18

"Don't know why, don't care." This I simply do not understand... Humanist_Activist Jan 2014 #21

Why aren't you curious as to how acupuncture works? Th1onein Jan 2014 #40

Did you read some of my posts above? I guess not. n/t Humanist_Activist Jan 2014 #41

I read them all. Every single one of them. Th1onein Jan 2014 #45

So, you concede that your post to me was a false accusation? n/t Humanist_Activist Jan 2014 #54

Not at all. Th1onein Jan 2014 #151

I have. And they're mean, angry, and wholly uncompromising in any way. BlueCaliDem Jan 2014 #91

It was given to me as a gift. When I saw the contents, I remember thinking mahina Jan 2014 #44

It didn't contain belladona... SidDithers Jan 2014 #96

And thanks for the ad hominem attack. mahina Jan 2014 #55

But you are gleefully and willfully ignorant, you said so yourself... Humanist_Activist Jan 2014 #62

Oh good grief, this again???! Tumbulu Jan 2014 #165

When did you use Hylands Homeopathic Teething tablets? etherealtruth Jan 2014 #25

Long enough ago not to worry about a recall. mahina Jan 2014 #49

Oh good etherealtruth Jan 2014 #53

This message was self-deleted by its author Humanist_Activist Jan 2014 #65

Basically the little kids were tripping their brains out, no wonder it worked. Warren Stupidity Jan 2014 #107

Trust you have some personal experience to share. mahina Jan 2014 #108

noo... a little research, even then in the 60's way before wikipedia Warren Stupidity Jan 2014 #229

I know etherealtruth Jan 2014 #110

I read it, but find the two anti-homeopathic arguments contradictory. mahina Jan 2014 #126

the supplement industry isn't regulated like the drug industry is etherealtruth Jan 2014 #136

I've cured or eased headaches by using reflexology pressure points Whisp Jan 2014 #24

Is acupuncture natural? elias7 Jan 2014 #26

I agree. Sometimes natural things work, and sometimes prescription medication works Sarah Ibarruri Jan 2014 #30

my sister had trigeminal neuralgia and took the prescription medication for a few years renate Jan 2014 #210

Exactly. Some people feel that they have to defend prescription meds... Sarah Ibarruri Jan 2014 #241

I fell down the stairs last year and suffered a very bad ankle sprain. MindPilot Jan 2014 #31

I am so glad to hear that! Texasgal Jan 2014 #34

Yeah, they gave me some pain pills which didn't do much. MindPilot Jan 2014 #50

It would be wise to get a CT scan to rule out rotator cuff tears. John1956PA Jan 2014 #32

I'm well aware. Texasgal Jan 2014 #37

It is amazing when you share a story of success there are post which sounds RW. Thinkingabout Jan 2014 #33

I know... it's weird. Texasgal Jan 2014 #39

It's amazing that you equate science advocacy with RW. Orrex Jan 2014 #51

When a post is styled in the RW fashion. Sounds like FAUX noose. Thinkingabout Jan 2014 #60

What post are you talking about? Orrex Jan 2014 #64

My response to texasgal was in general, from her answer she understood what I was saying. Thinkingabout Jan 2014 #74

So... It's a call-out without the courage to call anyone out. Orrex Jan 2014 #77

what is the problem? are you having a bad day? i dont like RW post. Thinkingabout Jan 2014 #99

You haven't identified a RW post. Orrex Jan 2014 #100

Do you know about colloquialism? Thinkingabout Jan 2014 #103

So, there isn't actually a RW post, and you were simply flinging accusations. Orrex Jan 2014 #106

No I will not admit there are not any RW post here, why are you trying to get me to agree either way Thinkingabout Jan 2014 #112

Nope. Not angry at all--you're attempting a lame rhetorical distraction. Orrex Jan 2014 #118

The answer to you is the same, you can accuse me of whatever makes your heart happy. Thinkingabout Jan 2014 #134

I've accused you only of lacking the courage to back up your own accusations Orrex Jan 2014 #137

You know, your dog don't hunt. Thinkingabout Jan 2014 #147

I'm surprised you didn't accuse my dog of being RW. Orrex Jan 2014 #150

It's Texan talk Thinkingabout Jan 2014 #163

Big fans of baseless accusations in Texas, are they? Orrex Jan 2014 #164

So pleasant you are. Texasgal Jan 2014 #173

Bless his heart. truebluegreen Jan 2014 #214

That's a great Texan expression. Love the Ann Richards avatar. Wendy for Governor!! n/t freshwest Jan 2014 #172

I feel sorry for some, isn't it great to live in Texas? I still love the state, doesn't matter Thinkingabout Jan 2014 #176

I don't live there anymore, but for a time it was the best! GOTV! n/t freshwest Jan 2014 #182

acupuncture is an excellent example of the conflict between woo and non-woo.... mike_c Jan 2014 #48

Same for some Chiropractic practices, certain types of massages, etc. Humanist_Activist Jan 2014 #57

I wish I knew where to stick the needle to remove the nastiness from this thread Marrah_G Jan 2014 #56

Hear here! Exactly. K&R, nt. druidity33 Jan 2014 #113

I put tiger repellent on every day, and I haven't been attacked. It works! X_Digger Jan 2014 #58

I went for the strawberry after trying to escape the tigers. You decide what happened: freshwest Jan 2014 #181

You should lose your license whistler162 Jan 2014 #59

Acupuncture can work Warpy Jan 2014 #61

Good response Notafraidtoo Jan 2014 #209

I am a bit surprised that there comments here saying pangaia Jan 2014 #66

why the surpise? Texasgal Jan 2014 #68

Thanks TEX. pangaia Jan 2014 #71

Whatever it is, it's not as much fun as pitching woo. n/t freshwest Jan 2014 #175

I would say they stumbled upon it through trial and error... Humanist_Activist Jan 2014 #70

Citation, please. Orrex Jan 2014 #89

Here's an interesting read X_Digger Jan 2014 #159

"It worked" and some things just get better themselves, which is why Bernardo de La Paz Jan 2014 #67

My thoughts exactly bhikkhu Jan 2014 #102

Anecdotal evidence does not equal scientific evidence. Vashta Nerada Jan 2014 #73

You're unfuking believable. darkangel218 Jan 2014 #76

Aren't nurses supposed to know that? Vashta Nerada Jan 2014 #123

This message was self-deleted by its author darkangel218 Jan 2014 #125

Its about time i block you. darkangel218 Jan 2014 #130

Have a nice vacation starting tomorrow. Vashta Nerada Jan 2014 #132

Good luck on DU. darkangel218 Jan 2014 #133

You're not a happy person. 840high Jan 2014 #153

I'm curious, what exactly in that post is "unfuking believable"? n/t tammywammy Jan 2014 #131

I was thinking the same thing. nt Quixote1818 Jan 2014 #169

The basis of medicine is unfucking believable? jeff47 Jan 2014 #179

Acupuncture alleviates pain by triggering endorphin production. Tanuki Jan 2014 #75

Pain relief is important, but it doesn't cause healing bhikkhu Jan 2014 #105

I frankly don't get calling a whole other culture's medicine 'woo'. Matariki Jan 2014 #79

Just like western folk medicine, it should be tested for effectiveness and safety, the stuff that... Humanist_Activist Jan 2014 #84

Acupuncture has been pretty extensively tested for safety and effectiveness Squinch Jan 2014 #135

Problem is they found it's equally effective when the person sticking in the needles jeff47 Jan 2014 #180

I used to need cortisone shots in my lower spine 2 or 3 times a year forlow back pain LiberalEsto Jan 2014 #81

Is acupuncture covered by insurance? Curmudgeoness Jan 2014 #85

Yes. Texasgal Jan 2014 #87

Acupuncture is mainstream medicine in many parts of Asia. Cleita Jan 2014 #86

Red herring. No one is claiming that western medicine has all the answers. Orrex Jan 2014 #97

Well, then shouldn't all you science whizzes be Cleita Jan 2014 #104

It is up to the claimant to verify the claim Orrex Jan 2014 #109

Then you can't dismiss such a practice without proof that it Cleita Jan 2014 #115

I can state with confidence that qi has never been empirically shown to exist Orrex Jan 2014 #122

Changing up the verbage to disagree with? Texasgal Jan 2014 #124

You work in medicine? Really? Orrex Jan 2014 #129

Proud surgical nurse here. Texasgal Jan 2014 #138

Be sure to tell them that you don't care how medicine does or doesn't work. Orrex Jan 2014 #144

I love DU'ers like you. Texasgal Jan 2014 #155

Replying to your own post? Well, self-love is important. Orrex Jan 2014 #162

Maybe it doesn't work that way but seems to work nonetheless. Cleita Jan 2014 #142

To an extent, yes. Orrex Jan 2014 #149

It works because people are told it works. NuclearDem Jan 2014 #200

And why is the placebo effect a bad thing? Cleita Jan 2014 #231

Hospitalized in the 70's, I asked about acupuncture; the doctors ALL guffawed, called me and the ancianita Jan 2014 #93

I'm one of those dreadful fact-based humanoids. Mopar151 Jan 2014 #94

I was very skeptical of trigger point massage myself but it seems to Cleita Jan 2014 #120

Acupuncture has been around for thousands of years. BlueCaliDem Jan 2014 #101

Qi has never been demonstrated to exist. Not once. Not anywhere. Not ever. Orrex Jan 2014 #111

Not to say that acupuncture qualifies but truebluegreen Jan 2014 #215

Clarke also believed in cold fusion Orrex Jan 2014 #220

Whatevs, dude. Thanks for reading my mind truebluegreen Jan 2014 #221

Well, you posted the same thing in two separate threads today Orrex Jan 2014 #224

Christianity has been around for 2,000 years. Vashta Nerada Jan 2014 #128

Accupuncture is a fucking applied science, darkangel218 Jan 2014 #139

Applied science? Vashta Nerada Jan 2014 #143

Just fucking go away. Take your personal attacks elsewhere. darkangel218 Jan 2014 #145

See my edit. Vashta Nerada Jan 2014 #146

No thanks. youre blocked. darkangel218 Jan 2014 #148

Yeah! NOW you think the Mayo Clinic is a legitimate source! IdaBriggs Jan 2014 #186

If that were true, it would matter where the needles go. jeff47 Jan 2014 #183

Doesn't mean it's wrong, either. BlueCaliDem Jan 2014 #174

Alright, "it's been around a really long time" doesn't mean "it's science!" NuclearDem Jan 2014 #196

It's "all right", not "alright" . . . and do you really believe that the Chinese don't do BlueCaliDem Jan 2014 #222

Chinese advancements in clothing have fuck all to do with the validity of TCM. NuclearDem Jan 2014 #223

Goes to historic credibility in cultural advancement. Don't be mad. Be open-minded. BlueCaliDem Jan 2014 #226

The American Cancer Society says your miracle cancer drug is grade-A bullcrap. NuclearDem Jan 2014 #230

The American Cancer Society *of course* would deny the research and studies BlueCaliDem Jan 2014 #232

Alright, you are just way too far gone into this crazy shit. NuclearDem Jan 2014 #233

Did you even read the article? Or did your prejudice and stung ego get in the way BlueCaliDem Jan 2014 #238

There's some evidence for the effectiveness of acupuncture naturallyselected Jan 2014 #117

Ahem ... GeorgeGist Jan 2014 #119

Is there any way I can put the word "woo" on ignore so I never never have to read it again? NBachers Jan 2014 #140

Click on "My Account" at the top Vashta Nerada Jan 2014 #152

Well that was a quick reply- I didn't think there was actually a way to do it. Thanks! NBachers Jan 2014 #154

I've done exactly that! 1000words Jan 2014 #201

My acupuncturist "moonlights" as a nurse practitioner. 1000words Jan 2014 #157

Mine was a Columbia University-educated physician... WorseBeforeBetter Jan 2014 #193

Acupuncture works very well for some things... nikto Jan 2014 #158

and sometimes a blind squirrel find a nut 4dsc Jan 2014 #160

Reminds me of this quote by Tim Minchin Quixote1818 Jan 2014 #166

Clueless you are. Texasgal Jan 2014 #168

Its a scam. 4dsc Jan 2014 #217

Have you ever trieed either? Thinkingabout Jan 2014 #227

my lower back and the before & after x-rays differ... Scout Jan 2014 #242

Acupuncture <> woo, Benton D Struckcheon Jan 2014 #178

Which journal is her peer reviewed study published in? Quixote1818 Jan 2014 #187

Not sure why snark is the instant response Benton D Struckcheon Jan 2014 #189

Thanks, this is good Quixote1818 Jan 2014 #198

What's natural about shoving needles in your flesh? longship Jan 2014 #188

How is healing a hurt shoulder in five weeks unusual? LeftyMom Jan 2014 #195

It helped my pain. Texasgal Jan 2014 #228

You got better on your own - it happens intaglio Jan 2014 #205

"Worked" MellowDem Jan 2014 #216

I don't consider acupuncture to be woo. As wikipedia notes... stevenleser Jan 2014 #219

I have a similar story tavalon Jan 2014 #225

In 1980, I had to pay an AMA doctor... freebrew Jan 2014 #234

Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't Rider3 Jan 2014 #235

K&R� I've been an RT 39 years, and work around some excellent researchers... MrMickeysMom Jan 2014 #236

+1000 Cleita Jan 2014 #237

One incident is not enough to conclude anything. athena Jan 2014 #239

What is "natural" about accupuncture? cthulu2016 Jan 2014 #240