General Discussion

Vashta Nerada

(3,922 posts)

94. Experiments need a null hypothesis.

Mon Jan 6, 2014, 12:28 AM

Jan 2014

Hypothesis have to be falsifiable.

For example, someone in my program defended a thesis last year about our particular archaeological site. She had the null hypothesis &quot Our site) is a natural site". Then she looked for archaeological evidence, specifically culturally identifiable markings on animal bones (cut marks, chop marks, sawing, hammering, etc) to disprove the null hypothesis. She then used statistics to see if her results were statistically significant. Her evidence went against the null hypothesis, so she rejected it. When the null hypothesis is rejected, an alternative hypothesis is then provided. In her case, the alternative hypothesis was &quot our site) is a cultural site". Her evidence supported that hypothesis and the alternative hypothesis was accepted.

I can get into the cluster analysis and the significance testing, if you really want me to.

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Those claiming to be anti "woo" and pro science [View all] darkangel218 Jan 2014 OP

In Science We Trust! JaneyVee Jan 2014 #1

...because that trust has been earned. gcomeau Jan 2014 #28

How so? sabrina 1 Jan 2014 #37

You ask... gcomeau Jan 2014 #42

Well then it should be a breeze to provide just one or two examples, shouldn't it? All that sabrina 1 Jan 2014 #48

Are you typing from inside an iron lung? Or blind from Measles? No? Thanks, science! n/t X_Digger Jan 2014 #51

?? I'm puzzled. Did I say somewhere that science has not contributed in any way to sabrina 1 Jan 2014 #79

Pile all of human scientific innovation into one great big bucket.. X_Digger Jan 2014 #88

Even the atomic bomb, which some consider to be unwise, was a success. Reality isn't always what freshwest Jan 2014 #114

The breeze is the sound of the answer whooshing over your head. Orrex Jan 2014 #52

Still nothing. I'm waitning for something of substance and have a feeling I will receive sabrina 1 Jan 2014 #62

Perhaps you should ask the acupuncturist who invented your computer Orrex Jan 2014 #65

I thought Al Gore invented all that stuff?? sabrina 1 Jan 2014 #92

What, in your estimation, is the subject under discussion? Orrex Jan 2014 #101

How many times will you miss that plane whooshing over your head MattBaggins Jan 2014 #128

Can you read? gcomeau Jan 2014 #60

Excuse me? Flight? Just what is the relevance of all that to the subject under discussion? sabrina 1 Jan 2014 #95

Yep, you. gcomeau Jan 2014 #107

Yes, it produces 'results' such as those my girlfirend suffered when she realized she could never sabrina 1 Jan 2014 #121

Yeah... "science" did it... gcomeau Jan 2014 #122

Of course it did. They experimented on pregnant women, and I suppose you could say they sabrina 1 Jan 2014 #123

Better to burn out than it is to rust! freshwest Jan 2014 #115

who is better Niceguy1 Jan 2014 #2

Don't worry, I lit some sage. ForgoTheConsequence Jan 2014 #3

that's 2naSalit Jan 2014 #45

What is this woo stuff? Shoulders of Giants Jan 2014 #4

The unexplained/alternative/the unknown/not mainstream darkangel218 Jan 2014 #5

And light and peace to you. Thirties Child Jan 2014 #10

Woo = Pseudo-science. Iggo Jan 2014 #11

Woo to some equals 'science' that has had fatal and disastrous results for many people. To each sabrina 1 Jan 2014 #38

+10,000!!! 2naSalit Jan 2014 #47

Where did that remark about "control" come from? Jim Lane Jan 2014 #126

Of course you are trying to control the choices of others. It's right there in your comment over and sabrina 1 Jan 2014 #129

Thanks for proving my point. Jim Lane Jan 2014 #130

"the difference between influence and control" greyl Jan 2014 #131

Excellent post!... SidDithers Jan 2014 #138

Those who make outrageous claims that "acupuncture works" or "vitamin B12 cures cancer" Vashta Nerada Jan 2014 #6

Post removed Post removed Jan 2014 #7

You should alert the admins to the software bug with your ignore. tammywammy Jan 2014 #16

Go gloat some some more on my break from DU. darkangel218 Jan 2014 #8

Russell's Teapot. Vashta Nerada Jan 2014 #9

Funny thing is..NO ONE SAID THAT. Texasgal Jan 2014 #12

*cough* Vashta Nerada Jan 2014 #13

You must not know how to read. Texasgal Jan 2014 #14

Nowhere does it say "and you know what? It worked for me!" Vashta Nerada Jan 2014 #15

apparently not Texasgal Jan 2014 #19

Well, here's the problem you are having. Neutral readers assume that when someone reports on sabrina 1 Jan 2014 #40

So acupuncture doesn't work, ever, at all? Your statement, in absolution yes? flvegan Jan 2014 #17

I'm not the one claiming acupuncture works. Vashta Nerada Jan 2014 #18

Correct. But, you're the one claiming it doesn't. flvegan Jan 2014 #21

Nowhere in my post did I claim acupuncture doesn't work. Vashta Nerada Jan 2014 #22

You want to re-read what you posted and reconsider? Here, I'll copy it for you: flvegan Jan 2014 #23

"outrageous claim" is so much different than saying "it doesn't work." Vashta Nerada Jan 2014 #24

I can, which is why I can tell you that it's not. flvegan Jan 2014 #30

Actually, it is. Vashta Nerada Jan 2014 #32

So then you don't really know either way? flvegan Jan 2014 #33

Making a claim, with no evidence to back it up, or with only anecdotal evidence, is outrageous. Vashta Nerada Jan 2014 #35

Didn't answer my question. flvegan Jan 2014 #36

Geez, that's twice in one thread that folks are (intentionally?) misreading what you're saying. X_Digger Jan 2014 #26

Care to help him/her out? flvegan Jan 2014 #34

Apparently not. X_Digger Jan 2014 #39

So then, no, you don't. flvegan Jan 2014 #41

in science, the default position is something doesn't work. La Lioness Priyanka Jan 2014 #67

Why is that? flvegan Jan 2014 #74

we create experiments to make sure something works. La Lioness Priyanka Jan 2014 #86

Experiments need a null hypothesis. Vashta Nerada Jan 2014 #94

Those who claim anything works FOR THEM, have to prove it. Eg, my MIL was on several prescription sabrina 1 Jan 2014 #43

Um, they do prove it. Vashta Nerada Jan 2014 #49

So it's okay to prescribe FDA approved scientifically tested medications arbitrarily which HAVE sabrina 1 Jan 2014 #124

Where do you get your data? Vashta Nerada Jan 2014 #125

You mean the same way those who claimed that DES worked to prevent miscarriages sabrina 1 Jan 2014 #59

I have no idea what you're going on about. Vashta Nerada Jan 2014 #64

I didn't think you would. Thanks for the confirmation. Woo, it all depnds on what you know. sabrina 1 Jan 2014 #89

No, it doesn't work. LeftyMom Jan 2014 #93

What- Tumbulu Jan 2014 #20

No kidding!!! Texasgal Jan 2014 #25

How do these get here? I read a post the other day where there are several from other countries, I Thinkingabout Jan 2014 #31

Forget it, Jake... pinboy3niner Jan 2014 #27

Nice personal attack. Vashta Nerada Jan 2014 #29

Oh what a relief! No assault weapons for Tumbulu Jan 2014 #46

I'm also a scientist. Vashta Nerada Jan 2014 #54

I have been reading your posts for quite Tumbulu Jan 2014 #71

Well Vashta Nerada Jan 2014 #76

Thank you- that is fascinating Tumbulu Jan 2014 #98

It's not always so easy, unfortunately. AZCat Jan 2014 #55

So, what does that have to do with this Tumbulu Jan 2014 #68

That's an interesting response. AZCat Jan 2014 #70

That particular poster wondered if I was an actual Democrat because I questioned woo. Vashta Nerada Jan 2014 #72

A closed shut mind is anything except scientific Tumbulu Jan 2014 #78

See post #76. Vashta Nerada Jan 2014 #80

What is a "septic"? AZCat Jan 2014 #82

I'm pretty sure it derives from the word "skeptic." MineralMan Jan 2014 #120

Sometimes I think we can all fall prey... AZCat Jan 2014 #81

What power do I, an anonymous poster Tumbulu Jan 2014 #85

I'm not sure where the two of us have been "ripping each other to shreds". AZCat Jan 2014 #90

Yes, we have not been doing that Tumbulu Jan 2014 #96

"I am a scientist. I use homeopathic remedies..." tkmorris Jan 2014 #69

Yeah, that struck me too... SidDithers Jan 2014 #73

What is your degree in Sid? Tumbulu Jan 2014 #100

Physics and Math... SidDithers Jan 2014 #102

Entomology, nematology Tumbulu Jan 2014 #106

I actually know a nuclear physicist who swears by acupuncture for her pain. I shit you not. X_Digger Jan 2014 #75

May I see your credentials Tumbulu Jan 2014 #91

I'll rephrase since you are getting all riled tkmorris Jan 2014 #119

Practice homeopathy? You thinks his is my job? Tumbulu Jan 2014 #127

You are a scientist who believes that water has 'memory'? idwiyo Jan 2014 #84

I am a scientist who does not limit Tumbulu Jan 2014 #99

Right. Water has 'memory' of piss, shit and all deadly bacteria that came in contact with water. idwiyo Jan 2014 #105

You see, your post is silly Tumbulu Jan 2014 #108

Healthy curiosity manifesting itself in possibility that water has memory? idwiyo Jan 2014 #109

Oh goodness, forget it! Tumbulu Jan 2014 #110

You are a scientist! You have healthy curiosity! Shouldn't it allow for a possibility that water idwiyo Jan 2014 #111

I use a couple of homeopathic topicals, recommended by an MD Bluenorthwest Jan 2014 #137

Homeopathy is the mother of all quackeries... SidDithers Jan 2014 #139

I respect you enough to suggest that you check if what you are using is actual idwiyo Jan 2014 #140

Amazing, isn't it? sabrina 1 Jan 2014 #44

Really very sad Tumbulu Jan 2014 #58

explaining the null hypothesis to non-scientists is an uphill task La Lioness Priyanka Jan 2014 #56

Tell me about it. Vashta Nerada Jan 2014 #61

i wouldn't bother. honestly, the only woo thing that upsets me is vaccinations La Lioness Priyanka Jan 2014 #63

Touché. Vashta Nerada Jan 2014 #66

I do have a question about scientist. MyNameGoesHere Jan 2014 #77

I'm putting in a lot of hard work into this thesis. Vashta Nerada Jan 2014 #87

Ok I will give you a pat on the back MyNameGoesHere Jan 2014 #133

ROFL! BuddhaGirl Jan 2014 #134

You want to feel superior to everyone but don't want education or credentials? OriginalGeek Jan 2014 #132

Oh really. That must be why this board-certified anesthesiologist pnwmom Jan 2014 #117

i am not sure where you get to this from what i said. nt La Lioness Priyanka Jan 2014 #118

Like the board certified anesthesiologist at Harvard Medical School who uses acupuncture? pnwmom Jan 2014 #116

You don't understand "proof" nt Logical Jan 2014 #50

Funny that you're preaching about ignorance Orrex Jan 2014 #53

Have you noticed... Marr Jan 2014 #136

LOL. La Lioness Priyanka Jan 2014 #57

wrong. nt Deep13 Jan 2014 #83

"F*ckin' magnets. How do they work?" Heidi Jan 2014 #97

I'm not saying it's aliens but progressoid Jan 2014 #103

! Heidi Jan 2014 #104

Now *that's* entertainment. n/t freshwest Jan 2014 #113

All that is being asked is evidence other than anecdote intaglio Jan 2014 #112

Guess you got your wish, see ya in a couple months! snooper2 Jan 2014 #135