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In reply to the discussion: Here's why *real* medicine is different than woo: [View all]geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)42. You refuted yourself:
OP Manny:
For woo... hard to tell how much is evidence based. Lots of woo things are actually evidence-based, but they're considered "woo" because neither docs, hospitals, nor drug companies can make a buck off of them. Nobody's made a study of it, to my knowledge, but the percentage of evidence-based woo's probably no worse than the percentage in "real" medicine. Can't be much worse. My personal woo habits are probably a lot more evidence-based than typical "real" medicine practiced by the vast bulk of doctors - Pubmed is my friend.
...
Once in a while, a few people get killed by woo. But tens of thousands? If anyone knows of even a hundred killed in a woo-tastrophe, I'd love to hear about it.
All in all, sadly, we're mostly on our own when it comes to either "real" medicine or woo. Not much evidence for either. At least woo is a lot less effective at mayhem. There is lots of evidence in the literature about stuff that really helps, but it gets ignored because nobody can make a buck off of it.
...
Once in a while, a few people get killed by woo. But tens of thousands? If anyone knows of even a hundred killed in a woo-tastrophe, I'd love to hear about it.
All in all, sadly, we're mostly on our own when it comes to either "real" medicine or woo. Not much evidence for either. At least woo is a lot less effective at mayhem. There is lots of evidence in the literature about stuff that really helps, but it gets ignored because nobody can make a buck off of it.
In other words, your claim is that the benefits of woo are probably as great as those of medical science with far fewer costs.
But along comes Comment Manny to reveal OP Manny as an ignoramus:
Comment Manny:
Average life expectancies have increased by 30 years of so over the last century. Studies have shown that most of this is due to sanitation, antibiotics, and vaccines, but a major chunk of it is still-unexplained
So, Comment Manny shows, OP Manny is simply full of nonsense. Medical science has increased human life expectancy by decades! Woo's track record contribution to that increase has been estimated at zero.
Polio, smallpox, diphtheria, whooping cough--those diseases had nothing to fear from woo.
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I'm a believer and practitioner of many new age philosophies and health lifestyles.
JaneyVee
Jan 2014
#1
The WMD in Iraq was, in fact, a more serious lie/delusion/hoax than a crop circle
cthulu2016
Jan 2014
#2
How can you make a blanket statement like that? Have you tested all alternative medicines?
Maraya1969
Jan 2014
#155
And THAT'S not a defense of 'medical science'. Manny mentioned only ONE drug eg, that has killed
sabrina 1
Jan 2014
#163
People have a nightmare trying to get off Paxil. But they don't tell you that until you've been on
loudsue
Jan 2014
#8
Western medicine is the best in the world at fixing things that are broken
truebluegreen
Jan 2014
#108
One big problem with herbal meds is that they are not FDA regulated, so you have no
tblue37
Jan 2014
#75
If we all hate modern medicine so much, why are we so happy to get insurance?
progressoid
Jan 2014
#17
Those same assholes convinced my mom to not try to stop smoking, she didn't live to see 64 years old
Humanist_Activist
Jan 2014
#35
Not some one who lived, an incredibly large number of people have made it to their
sabrina 1
Jan 2014
#164
The operative word is "could". I interpret that as not "should". Reread the OP.
Luminous Animal
Jan 2014
#81
I also found his 90% figure to be suspicious, its linked to a total of two op-eds, one in the...
Humanist_Activist
Jan 2014
#69
American Heart Association: only 11% of treatment recommendations back by good evidence
MannyGoldstein
Jan 2014
#119
Of recommendations, you made it seem, in your OP, that 90% of ALL medicine is purely guesswork...
Humanist_Activist
Jan 2014
#133
What percent of homeopathy, herbal remedies, etc. have 11% or more "strong evidence"
Cassidy
Jan 2014
#162
yes. you link to articles showing profit motive and greed were warping/stopping scientific method
Pretzel_Warrior
Jan 2014
#28
You ignore the harm caused by alternative "medicine" while hypercritical of science and evidence...
Humanist_Activist
Jan 2014
#38
Your argument is that the net effect of woo on public health is better than that
geek tragedy
Jan 2014
#45
things done for my son from his first trimester up through his last wellness check
Pretzel_Warrior
Jan 2014
#40
Do people like you hate modern medicine so much you will never use it?
Humanist_Activist
Jan 2014
#23
I don't see it as a nuanced cost benefit analysis, but rather a hit piece against science. n/t
Humanist_Activist
Jan 2014
#131
You misrepresent how modern medicine operates, you talk about the risks, downplay the...
Humanist_Activist
Jan 2014
#134
Somehow, I suspect that if you were really, really sick, you'd go see a doctor.
eggplant
Jan 2014
#43
Anyone that touts anything on this list is either insane, full of shit, or profoundly naive.
ProgressSaves
Jan 2014
#49
False equivalence lumping chiropracty with voodoo and astrology. Enjoy your stay.
Electric Monk
Jan 2014
#55
One of those "quacks" fixed my whiplash without me having to have surgically fused vertebrae. nt
Electric Monk
Jan 2014
#58
No evidence to support chiropractic outside minor musculoskeletal problems.
ProgressSaves
Jan 2014
#62
It's intellectually dishonest for you to lump it in with Psychic Surgery and Astral Projection. nt
Electric Monk
Jan 2014
#73
What is the painfully obvious answer please? Thank you for clarifying so I don't have to
uppityperson
Jan 2014
#170
Chiropractors, like anyone else, that overstep their scope of practice and do not know or believe
uppityperson
Jan 2014
#169
It is NOT a difference of only 7 percent. You really don't understand percents.
pnwmom
Jan 2014
#103
Wow, you are off by a mile. Here is an explanation from the authors of the paper
Quixote1818
Jan 2014
#109
Accupuncture has been shown in dozens of studies to be no better than a panacea
intaglio
Jan 2014
#99
Kind of funny that his "followers" have missed the fact that Manny does not
madinmaryland
Jan 2014
#150
There was plenty of evidence that Vioxx had an advantage over ibuprofen - stomach ulcers
muriel_volestrangler
Jan 2014
#107
As I said in my OP, there was *no* evidence of increased safety while it was on the market
MannyGoldstein
Jan 2014
#122
The lessening of GI complications for the class including Vioxx was known before the VIGOR study
muriel_volestrangler
Jan 2014
#125
Can you provide a link to info on the studies that demonstrated increased safety
MannyGoldstein
Jan 2014
#129
hundreds of thousands died from woo, before the evolution of the scientific method
La Lioness Priyanka
Jan 2014
#110
Attacking the medical industry is a very touchy subject, because many people here are in it.
reformist2
Jan 2014
#136
I look at it this way, if any of these asshats were 1/2 as competent as they try to imply,
Egalitarian Thug
Jan 2014
#137
if it talks like a Powellite, serves Powellite ends, uses Powellite means, erases history like a
MisterP
Jan 2014
#139
magical thinking in medicine used to kill a LOT more people than it does now
Bradical79
Jan 2014
#158