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In reply to the discussion: Baloney Detection Kit [View all]

Ms. Toad

(38,793 posts)
21. Good advice -
Mon Jan 6, 2014, 12:33 PM
Jan 2014

particularly if one applies it equally the "anti-woo" side of the current discussions. The label "woo" as it is being used on DU relies heavily on the excluded middle, the slippery slope, straw men, and observational selection (to the extent it applies different criteria to categorize alternative medicine as "woo," than it applies to traditional medicine).

Top more specifically address the last point, I would add applying different standards to evaluate the validity of a position based on whether you agree with it or not.

I evaluate all medical care by the same standards - and am fully aware that much of my traditional medical care is not evidence based (in the sense of being supported by double blind placebo based research). Much off label use of drugs isn't, much surgery isn't, much of the treatment for rare conditions isn't, participation in clinical studies certainly isn't. The majority of the anti-woo arguments seem completely unaware of this reality yet treat traditional medical care as presumptively supported by the evidence (requiring proof that it is not safe or effective before rejecting it as "woo&quot and alternative care as presumptively not supported by the evidence (requiring proof that it is safe and effective before treating those who use it with respect).

The two are not equal in terms of the availability of evidence supporting the efficacy and safety - mostly because there is more money to be made in traditional medicine (availability of insurance to pay for it, the price of medication, etc.), and money pays for research. That makes my personal default, most of the time, traditional medicine - because I do significant research on any out-of-the-ordinary condition and treatment before treatment (aside from emergencies), and trustworthy research is easier to access with traditional medicine and, in most instances, there are quality controls which govern the contents of traditional medication - and even if the medication hasn't been proven effective for the particular condition for which it is being prescribed - it has been for some other condition.

Whether or not there is not scientifically rigorous proof the suggested treatment (traditional or alternative) is effective and safe is an important factor to consider. But even in traditional medicine, the answer inquiry is often that there is not - and when there is not, you have to do the best research and reasoning you can about what evidence there is. That often means that you move forward without solid proof. You might be moving forward with traditional medicine - you might be moving forward with alternative medicine - or you might be moving forward with a combination. All of those choices, in the presence of responsible scientific inquiry but the absence of absolute proof, ought to be treated respectfully - and not met with cries of "Woo kills" when "woo" is only applied to the choice to move forward with alternative medicine without solid evidence but not the choice to move forward with traditional medicine without solid evidence.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Baloney Detection Kit [View all] scheming daemons Jan 2014 OP
Seen too many of those fallacies recently in the woo wars. NuclearDem Jan 2014 #1
Excellent post. n/t tammywammy Jan 2014 #2
Awesome post! Katashi_itto Jan 2014 #3
+1 BobUp Jan 2014 #4
The Internet community is a self-regulating Baloney detector tridim Jan 2014 #5
I think the internet community is decidedly mixed. It's also a great propagator of Baloney stevenleser Jan 2014 #7
It's both, and each extreme is simple to identify. tridim Jan 2014 #8
The internet community... awoke_in_2003 Jan 2014 #28
If you're gullible. tridim Jan 2014 #30
Demon Haunted World - a great book Aldo Leopold Jan 2014 #6
The book literally changed my world view scheming daemons Jan 2014 #11
I need to get it... awoke_in_2003 Jan 2014 #29
A great kit, thanks for posting! riqster Jan 2014 #9
Kick! Heidi Jan 2014 #10
Like fish in water.. HoosierCowboy Jan 2014 #12
My husband told me about a product CrispyQ Jan 2014 #20
I'd ALWAYS K&R for Carl Sagan! MarianJack Jan 2014 #13
one of the best books ever written Chaco Dundee Jan 2014 #14
Huge K&R mountain grammy Jan 2014 #15
Common fallacies of logic and rhetoric: ..... Bonhomme Richard Jan 2014 #16
I always think "if it sounds too good/easy to be true, it most likely is" - so avoid or ignore! NRaleighLiberal Jan 2014 #17
Seems that all politics are baloney then, which I certainly don't disagree with. LanternWaste Jan 2014 #18
"The world misses Carl Sagan more than ever." CrispyQ Jan 2014 #19
Good advice - Ms. Toad Jan 2014 #21
common fallacies oldandhappy Jan 2014 #22
Now we're talkin. Blue Owl Jan 2014 #23
DU rec... SidDithers Jan 2014 #24
kick scheming daemons Jan 2014 #25
awesome post! mike_c Jan 2014 #26
Woop...woop! Joanie Baloney Jan 2014 #27
kick! onestepforward Jan 2014 #31
THIS THREAD IS THE WINNER!! LAGC Jan 2014 #32
haha thanx scheming daemons Jan 2014 #35
I wish I believed in life after death. Kablooie Jan 2014 #33
Here's my list of DC baloney words/phrases: blkmusclmachine Jan 2014 #34
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