General Discussion

redgreenandblue

(2,124 posts)

136. The problem is that it is generally not helpful to make sweeping generalizations.

Wed Jan 8, 2014, 01:57 PM

Jan 2014

Even in the case that one has a legitimate grievance concerning a member or multiple members of a certain group.

Even if there are statistics that show that a certain problem exists in a significant manner within
a certain group X, assuming that a person belonging to this group is affected by this problem or
even assuming that a person should necessarily care about this problem or have an opinion on it
by virtue of belonging to the group, is usually considered to be bigotry.

A concrete example: I once dated a woman from Russia. I was subsequently informed by "concerned"
people that she is probably a gold-digger and wants my citizenship, based on stereotypes that
these people believed in. I rebutted this. As it later turned out, she was in fact a gold-digger and after
my citizenship. Does this mean the stereotype is true, or should be peddled. Shit no. Do I have the right
to go around and complain about "gold digging Russian women". Hell no. That would be bigotry.
People peddled the same stereotype about the sister of the woman I was dating, and it is deeply unfair in that case
because she happens to be one of the sweetest and honest people ever (no, I am not dating her...).

Likewise, people correctly recognize statements such as "black people should reject gangster rap culture" as
bigoted. How are "men should reject rape culture" or "men care only about sex" different?

Edit history

Please sign in to view edit histories.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

323 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

Will men ever start seeing woman as people first, sex objects last? [View all] leftyladyfrommo Jan 2014 OP

Do you ever see men treating women as people first? el_bryanto Jan 2014 #1

It depends, but with groups like the Mormons, women are just baby makers, virtual slaves, and sex vanbean Jan 2014 #271

I am a Mormon as it turns out; el_bryanto Jan 2014 #282

I already do. Iggo Jan 2014 #2

We've got the same problem snooper2 Jan 2014 #3

me too hfojvt Jan 2014 #23

But where is his cat? Eleanors38 Jan 2014 #60

What I love about this is... VanillaRhapsody Jan 2014 #100

Good observation. A woman I know is something of an exception... Eleanors38 Jan 2014 #119

but why are so many women afflicted with such poor body images..? VanillaRhapsody Jan 2014 #123

Bombardment LadyHawkAZ Jan 2014 #232

yes alot of deprogramming is right... VanillaRhapsody Jan 2014 #233

I don't know. There is power in self-confidence, and for Eleanors38 Jan 2014 #256

Confidence is sexy Katashi_itto Jan 2014 #187

Yeah it is. Eleanors38 Jan 2014 #257

One exception here. demosincebirth Jan 2014 #202

Men FEEL and THINK in relatively the same way women do on this one... Demo_Chris Jan 2014 #278

No Chris...men are NOT judged by appearance the same way women are... VanillaRhapsody Jan 2014 #295

Happens to me al the time Katashi_itto Jan 2014 #186

I thought so, as I had men who were just friends treestar Jan 2014 #4

The generalization in this OP is offensive to personhood. Coyotl Jan 2014 #5

Don't bother it makes no difference what is said upaloopa Jan 2014 #41

+100 RC Jan 2014 #127

Yeah I remember that song. There used to be some good upaloopa Jan 2014 #145

+1 uponit7771 Jan 2014 #137

"self centered bullies pretending to be honest educators of the rest of us" Marr Jan 2014 #220

+1 Vinnie From Indy Jan 2014 #291

You got that right. 99Forever Jan 2014 #309

that subject line is really out there. If something like it in reverse were posted, Doctor_J Jan 2014 #176

Not that there is anything wrong with flinging poo, given of course Coyotl Jan 2014 #179

Will men ever stop seeing each other as competitors and potential enemies? Smarmie Doofus Jan 2014 #6

Why should women change the way they dress because of what MEN think? n/t hughee99 Jan 2014 #7

Islam demands it. n/t Drew2510 Jan 2014 #10

And Mormons! snooper2 Jan 2014 #37

Mormons?? Drew2510 Jan 2014 #78

Report Them! snooper2 Jan 2014 #89

Yes as you point out Drew2510 Jan 2014 #221

They do AgingAmerican Jan 2014 #44

Some change the way they dress to cinnabonbon Jan 2014 #51

If one is suggesting that women change the way the dress because of what goes on in MEN's minds hughee99 Jan 2014 #98

If you live in a society cinnabonbon Jan 2014 #121

There are women, it seems to me, who exploit their own sexual appeal closeupready Jan 2014 #8

So, in your view, sexual harassment and objectification is women's fault. geek tragedy Jan 2014 #17

Do you do nothing else with your life than troll DU, sniping closeupready Jan 2014 #34

When some people can't defend what they write, geek tragedy Jan 2014 #39

We're trying to have a friendly discussion here closeupready Jan 2014 #48

LMAO. Throw nasty personal insults and then play innocent. Shameless. geek tragedy Jan 2014 #52

This AgingAmerican Jan 2014 #62

Yawn. Restating someone's opinion is not an insult. Look up geek tragedy Jan 2014 #77

There you go again AgingAmerican Jan 2014 #84

No, my issue is with assholish behavior that is learned and then geek tragedy Jan 2014 #87

Your issue is with hormonal interplay between sexes AgingAmerican Jan 2014 #99

LMAO. "hormonal interplay" what is your view on sexual geek tragedy Jan 2014 #102

Sexual harassment has no place in the workplace AgingAmerican Jan 2014 #135

Chimpanzees and killer whales and monkeys geek tragedy Jan 2014 #167

Try to keep up with science and social science BainsBane Jan 2014 #133

Sexual attraction is biological AgingAmerican Jan 2014 #144

Biology doesn't MAKE people do stupid things BainsBane Jan 2014 #250

Yes it does AgingAmerican Jan 2014 #261

So you've now decided procreation is stupid? BainsBane Jan 2014 #267

No AgingAmerican Jan 2014 #269

Where did I say that? BainsBane Jan 2014 #270

I have never said anything you imply AgingAmerican Jan 2014 #272

Spot fucking on. Have you read this? redqueen Jan 2014 #162

Thats a whole lotta animosity in that "research" site study for me so I can go read it please Drew Richards Jan 2014 #239

When you change the meaning in so doing, it's called a Straw Man. That's what you did. stevenleser Jan 2014 #150

Yes, a Straw Man, not an insult. And I will infer from your geek tragedy Jan 2014 #154

As soon as you started with the straw man, imputing nasty things they did not say stevenleser Jan 2014 #158

While your personal loyalty to that person is admirable, it also geek tragedy Jan 2014 #163

You are really good at imputing things to people they never said or intended. stevenleser Jan 2014 #165

Unless you have anything else to add geek tragedy Jan 2014 #168

+ a fucking gazillion n/t Scout Jan 2014 #189

+1,000,000,000 nt redqueen Jan 2014 #213

AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your Jury Service snooper2 Jan 2014 #67

Wait, two jury results on the same post? nt geek tragedy Jan 2014 #80

WTF is going on! snooper2 Jan 2014 #91

technical glitches never happen! nt geek tragedy Jan 2014 #94

I love how one of the deciding votes Hayabusa Jan 2014 #172

Results Sissyk Jan 2014 #61

Well said Katashi_itto Jan 2014 #146

want some cheese to go with that whine? nt Capt. Obvious Jan 2014 #185

I started that saying, in 1993. Warren DeMontague Jan 2014 #274

I invented the question mark Capt. Obvious Jan 2014 #280

Heh Warren DeMontague Jan 2014 #304

Feel good answer: Yes LittleBlue Jan 2014 #9

I like that the ad that shows for me on your post has two big boobs on it. cbdo2007 Jan 2014 #11

While some things have gotten better (you don't see girly calendars Ron Green Jan 2014 #12

I doubt it. The ones who think with their big head instead of their little head are a minority. kestrel91316 Jan 2014 #13

I don't think you could make a broadside attack like that against women here and get away with it. Comrade Grumpy Jan 2014 #223

Indeed DavidDvorkin Jan 2014 #247

because men are never displayed as sex objects? demwing Jan 2014 #14

Those are just gross. leftyladyfrommo Jan 2014 #19

The third ad reminds me of something from Zoolander demwing Jan 2014 #207

Ha---those are for other men, if truth be known. WinkyDink Jan 2014 #32

Lol. Men get sexualized... demwing Jan 2014 #208

The point is, men are seen as people first, sexual beings second. athena Jan 2014 #46

Men divide other men into different types of groups demwing Jan 2014 #214

Back when I was single they would comment on my buns B Calm Jan 2014 #55

Confession! Sissyk Jan 2014 #70

Men judge other men by appearances as well demwing Jan 2014 #217

I thought you were going to confess that you scanned the QR code covering that last dude's dingus. Warren DeMontague Jan 2014 #273

lol! Sissyk Jan 2014 #285

Honestly... pipi_k Jan 2014 #15

Probably why women like gay men so much. leftyladyfrommo Jan 2014 #20

I've told pipi_k Jan 2014 #92

There is a logistical problem here... Eleanors38 Jan 2014 #108

To answer your question Orrex Jan 2014 #175

Is analysis really worthwhile, is the theater really dead? Eleanors38 Jan 2014 #258

Why would you think that the OP was exempting gay men from the broad brush treatment? nt lumberjack_jeff Jan 2014 #245

Biology does not make men superficial assholes. geek tragedy Jan 2014 #28

So I went back pipi_k Jan 2014 #104

No, you're taking assholish behavior and attributing it to hormones. geek tragedy Jan 2014 #111

WTF? -_o BarackTheVote Jan 2014 #226

since 1973, it's had the connotation of 13-20 years old. geek tragedy Jan 2014 #227

lol AgingAmerican Jan 2014 #264

Hormones make men superficial AgingAmerican Jan 2014 #105

how do you explain people who aren't superficial? nt geek tragedy Jan 2014 #116

I would explain them by saying... AgingAmerican Jan 2014 #129

so only superficial people dress well or care about their personal appearance? nt geek tragedy Jan 2014 #153

No, all types of people exist AgingAmerican Jan 2014 #157

Without taking the time to take a side in this debate... Shandris Jan 2014 #170

this kind of dismisses the idea that people do stuff geek tragedy Jan 2014 #171

No, I don't think it dismisses that idea at all. Shandris Jan 2014 #177

social interactions are not evidence of superficiality, I would say geek tragedy Jan 2014 #182

"Low T" ? quaker bill Jan 2014 #275

Is that a joke? Can't tell. nt geek tragedy Jan 2014 #283

Hmmm I wonder if pipi likes gregorian chants Drew Richards Jan 2014 #238

Can't people stop reacting based on the way other people look? haele Jan 2014 #16

Good men don't do this. The media is particularly foul in this regard, though. geek tragedy Jan 2014 #18

No, actually... pipi_k Jan 2014 #110

No, sorry, that's superficial, emotionally underdeveloped men. geek tragedy Jan 2014 #113

If you don't already know whoever it is The2ndWheel Jan 2014 #141

Life is not a singles bar. nt geek tragedy Jan 2014 #169

It's not a platonic relationship either The2ndWheel Jan 2014 #191

Well, no. geek tragedy Jan 2014 #194

Did you do so with your spouse when you first met them? The2ndWheel Jan 2014 #203

she came up to me and started talking. geek tragedy Jan 2014 #209

I tip my cap to ya The2ndWheel Jan 2014 #212

better to be lucky than good, as the saying goes nt geek tragedy Jan 2014 #218

meh -- there are plenty of men (good and bad, I suspect) whose first thought is not "hot or not" fishwax Jan 2014 #122

Sorry, dude. You're a bad guy too ProudToBeBlueInRhody Jan 2014 #234

sorry, I view women as colleagues, etc geek tragedy Jan 2014 #235

are you saying women should wear burkas? leftyohiolib Jan 2014 #21

No. Nun's outfits will do just fine. leftyladyfrommo Jan 2014 #27

I don't think it's so bad as that. athena Jan 2014 #40

Some would consider this "blaming the victim". nt hughee99 Jan 2014 #45

It may turn out to be a bad libodem Jan 2014 #174

Some women just don't like men AgingAmerican Jan 2014 #35

... and some men just don't like women... Scout Jan 2014 #199

True, but... AgingAmerican Jan 2014 #240

Both sexes look at each other as sex objects first; straight or gay. democratisphere Jan 2014 #22

Probably not in general. Xyzse Jan 2014 #24

That's not really a fair generalization. rrneck Jan 2014 #25

There go those damn hormones again! AgingAmerican Jan 2014 #26

SMH Mr Dixon Jan 2014 #29

The West wants its women naked; the East wants them totally covered. POWER. WinkyDink Jan 2014 #30

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ THIS ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ redqueen Jan 2014 #143

I understand how you feel. athena Jan 2014 #31

This might come as a surprise to you.... AgingAmerican Jan 2014 #33

Yes, because what women want most of all BainsBane Jan 2014 #47

You could actually try reading AgingAmerican Jan 2014 #65

What facts? BainsBane Jan 2014 #71

These facts: AgingAmerican Jan 2014 #74

No shit Sherlock BainsBane Jan 2014 #82

I pointed out a few AgingAmerican Jan 2014 #93

Know what else is a fact BainsBane Jan 2014 #103

Right, because we all know that this OP AgingAmerican Jan 2014 #107

My agenda? BainsBane Jan 2014 #118

Yes AgingAmerican Jan 2014 #130

I wonder if the issue BainsBane Jan 2014 #125

If you can imagine it AgingAmerican Jan 2014 #132

Revolves around what? BainsBane Jan 2014 #140

Revolves around AgingAmerican Jan 2014 #148

Wow... chervilant Jan 2014 #279

I wonder how far the argument goes? BainsBane Jan 2014 #308

Your appeal to positivism is fascinating BainsBane Jan 2014 #306

you mean many women enjoy sucking up to men? leftyladyfrommo Jan 2014 #322

Is the poster less entitled to speak for women than the OP is for men? lumberjack_jeff Jan 2014 #237

My original point really was pretty simple. leftyladyfrommo Jan 2014 #297

I understand, but that won't stop some from excusing predatory behavior BainsBane Jan 2014 #305

You know, the older I get the more I realize I don't have a clue leftyladyfrommo Jan 2014 #323

If they dress to accentuate their looks treestar Jan 2014 #188

Women tend to dress up AgingAmerican Jan 2014 #241

Oh really treestar Jan 2014 #254

No AgingAmerican Jan 2014 #260

Here's what I don't understand: chervilant Jan 2014 #286

I am completely beyond giving a fuck MadrasT Jan 2014 #36

Right around the same time women stop caring what random people LadyHawkAZ Jan 2014 #38

except that 'random people' include a woman's boss, her coworkers, geek tragedy Jan 2014 #43

I said "women" not "woman". n/t LadyHawkAZ Jan 2014 #50

you don't think all of the above happen to more than one woman? nt geek tragedy Jan 2014 #53

I said women as a collective need to stop being terrified of what men might think LadyHawkAZ Jan 2014 #66

how is that supposed to work? women exist as individuals, not geek tragedy Jan 2014 #156

*snort* BWAHAHAHA LadyHawkAZ Jan 2014 #180

the point is that it's easy to not care in abstract, but the reality geek tragedy Jan 2014 #184

I live in the same reality, sir LadyHawkAZ Jan 2014 #206

my wife was chased by a psycho with a brick after she told him off. geek tragedy Jan 2014 #210

I've survived one attempted kidnapping LadyHawkAZ Jan 2014 #216

more power to you, you should be able to dress in any manner you want and for any reason loli phabay Jan 2014 #225

You need to lay off reality TV B2G Jan 2014 #42

Probably about the same time women quite being attracted to ... MicaelS Jan 2014 #49

It depends on the individual as "men" is too broadbrushing. Will societal standards and expectations uppityperson Jan 2014 #54

A woman posts her opinion on a topic she considers important, athena Jan 2014 #56

Yep. Sheldon Cooper Jan 2014 #63

and a radfem/Dworkin-baiting post mentioning PIV. nt geek tragedy Jan 2014 #101

Doesn't something similar happen to pretty much any topic in GD? Orrex Jan 2014 #73

Yup. More and more GD appears to stand for Gratuitous Douchebaggery. 11 Bravo Jan 2014 #120

GD isn't a friendly place for anyone. It's the Roman Coliseum part of DU Kaleva Jan 2014 #76

Maybe it should be re-named "Unfriendly Discussion" athena Jan 2014 #79

Lol! Or how about "General Lynching"? Kaleva Jan 2014 #96

I like that! athena Jan 2014 #106

If she doesn't want to be accused of over-generalizing then... redgreenandblue Jan 2014 #81

Because the OP posted her own personal observation. athena Jan 2014 #97

The problem is that it is generally not helpful to make sweeping generalizations. redgreenandblue Jan 2014 #136

And that observation includes an over-generalization. jeff47 Jan 2014 #142

And some have affirmed the point BainsBane Jan 2014 #109

"as someone said here not too long ago"~ About two and a half hours ago, to be exact. LadyHawkAZ Jan 2014 #134

Message auto-removed Name removed Jan 2014 #115

Right.....and the exact same thing happens whenever a man posts something. cbdo2007 Jan 2014 #138

thanks, very true! n/t Scout Jan 2014 #195

The dismissive responses are from people who are in a position to know the answer to the question. lumberjack_jeff Jan 2014 #244

Thank you. leftyladyfrommo Jan 2014 #316

I agree with you almost completely. athena Jan 2014 #320

When it comes to dressing: leftyladyfrommo Jan 2014 #321

Would it have killed you to insert the word "some" before "men"? Nye Bevan Jan 2014 #57

Male - Hormones Shot - Tubes Calcified - People Are People cantbeserious Jan 2014 #58

No Egnever Jan 2014 #59

Not a good excuse. athena Jan 2014 #64

it isnt an excuse Egnever Jan 2014 #312

Which men? MineralMan Jan 2014 #68

Some, yes and more as time goes by intaglio Jan 2014 #69

It is indeed unfortunate that people are held to artificial standards set by others Orrex Jan 2014 #72

Men who are attracted to women are first attracted to them The2ndWheel Jan 2014 #75

How does one separate being sexually appealing from being viewed as a sex object? Douglas Carpenter Jan 2014 #83

All these conversations seem to ignore that women also look at men as sex objects. I've personally ChisolmTrailDem Jan 2014 #85

"Will women ever start seeing men as people first, providers last?" SMC22307 Jan 2014 #86

it would be more efficient FatBuddy Jan 2014 #88

+1000!!1!!11!! RC Jan 2014 #159

I think that men are wired to see women sexually liberal N proud Jan 2014 #90

... the same way that women are wired to see men sexually. athena Jan 2014 #117

I understand this part. Xyzse Jan 2014 #126

So the white knight thing is ok to do? The2ndWheel Jan 2014 #149

This message was self-deleted by its author athena Jan 2014 #160

How then does she even have the job that her expertise got her? The2ndWheel Jan 2014 #173

This message was self-deleted by its author athena Jan 2014 #181

I'm sorry. athena Jan 2014 #190

If a woman got a job based on her expertise The2ndWheel Jan 2014 #200

Why does it have to be one or the other? RC Jan 2014 #183

It doesn't have to be The2ndWheel Jan 2014 #204

And when the reverse happens? RC Jan 2014 #219

I've never been a boss, but I'm sure that's it's own situation The2ndWheel Jan 2014 #288

This message was self-deleted by its author athena Jan 2014 #293

Anyone who can't see and feel real beauty and quality in a person isn't worth a rat's ass as a Zorra Jan 2014 #95

I feel women do the same thing Beringia Jan 2014 #112

Message auto-removed Name removed Jan 2014 #114

Please review #22, 24, 75, 83, 108 and notice: no interraction. Eleanors38 Jan 2014 #147

Ah, the hasty generalization fallacy TheSarcastinator Jan 2014 #124

Will some people ever stop seeing "men" as a single object DLnyc Jan 2014 #128

Just because we're staring... Blue_Adept Jan 2014 #131

Will people ever start seeing men as people, too... Orsino Jan 2014 #139

This should get an award for sweeping generalizations. Katashi_itto Jan 2014 #151

I gotta say cinnabonbon Jan 2014 #152

My wife always says, "Why are you always looking at other women." Hubert Flottz Jan 2014 #155

Interesting fact: The "women have an extra rib" myth came from the Adam and Eve story. Dash87 Jan 2014 #196

I'll take a cryptic and lame excuse, over flying saucers, Hubert Flottz Jan 2014 #224

Have you stopped beating your wife? N.T. Donald Ian Rankin Jan 2014 #161

I see my wife as many things... Whiskeytide Jan 2014 #164

As an Oklahoman and a major Sooners fan... NaturalHigh Jan 2014 #229

Thanks. I was at the game... Whiskeytide Jan 2014 #287

I think this goes both ways with young girls not seeing Cleita Jan 2014 #166

The fact that ''not all men do this' type responses so vastly outnumber the 'far too many men do' redqueen Jan 2014 #178

Well, to be fair, the title of the post Vinnie From Indy Jan 2014 #294

The lack of understanding of generalizations justiceischeap Jan 2014 #192

I have to admit that we don't make it that easy for them sometimes. We sex ourselves up too much Liberal_Stalwart71 Jan 2014 #193

I would take strong exception with the idea that Michelle Obama, Hillary geek tragedy Jan 2014 #197

This may seem odd, but I find Mrs. Obama very attractive, BobUp Jan 2014 #198

quite the contrary, extremely normal nt geek tragedy Jan 2014 #201

Look at you, being all superficial The2ndWheel Jan 2014 #211

IMHO BobUp Jan 2014 #228

It works the other way too The2ndWheel Jan 2014 #222

That's interesting. You're right. I do agree that sometimes I wish were described as SMART first! Liberal_Stalwart71 Jan 2014 #243

Which can only happen when someone knows you The2ndWheel Jan 2014 #289

Sexism will always be a problem in this country chungking34 Jan 2014 #205

It's not all men MissMillie Jan 2014 #215

Answer to title: No, and yes. nt Demo_Chris Jan 2014 #230

I honestly don't see very men at all that look as sex objects first. polly7 Jan 2014 #231

Shocking! RiffRandell Jan 2014 #259

Will women ever start asking men this question rather than speculating among themselves? lumberjack_jeff Jan 2014 #236

Laughing. crim son Jan 2014 #242

This is really a silly post. n-t Logical Jan 2014 #246

Post removed Post removed Jan 2014 #248

I can control a man, how much he respecst me by "acting like a lady"? uppityperson Jan 2014 #249

Ever? I think so, assuming we survive long enough. Will we see it? I don't think so. Egalitarian Thug Jan 2014 #251

We keep blaming pipi_k Jan 2014 #290

You're confusing common cultural programming with biology. Or perhaps you are confusing Egalitarian Thug Jan 2014 #314

never..... madrchsod Jan 2014 #252

Men can't help it in my case. KentuckyWoman Jan 2014 #253

We could go around in burqas and it would still be the same Warpy Jan 2014 #255

Some men don't seem to be catching on. FedUpWithIt All Jan 2014 #262

Will the human animal ever, ever, EVER be able to walk and chew gum at the same time? Warren DeMontague Jan 2014 #263

Do you see our society radically changing the way they advertise and sell products? Rex Jan 2014 #265

Chicken or egg? FedUpWithIt All Jan 2014 #266

this might be breaking news to you, but not all guys are superficial douchebags.nt dionysus Jan 2014 #268

People are people quaker bill Jan 2014 #276

.... politicman Jan 2014 #277

Creepy guys (and non-creepy guys) at the bar Bonobo Jan 2014 #281

Many already do. LWolf Jan 2014 #284

One of the most ridiculous, in your face bits of flame bait I have seen in a while on DU Vinnie From Indy Jan 2014 #292

Honestly, I didn't put this out as "flame bait?" leftyladyfrommo Jan 2014 #298

The problem is, you didn't say "Will Roger Ailes ever..." brooklynite Jan 2014 #307

Honestly, I am afraid that most men notice the sex angle first. leftyladyfrommo Jan 2014 #313

As I was thinking about this pipi_k Jan 2014 #296

It's ignorant, unevolved behavior. redqueen Jan 2014 #299

when it becomes normal for women to be on equal footing at work and be bosses? Hopefully. bettyellen Jan 2014 #300

no ladywnch Jan 2014 #301

Let me guess, you just meant "some" men. RedCappedBandit Jan 2014 #302

That's not a very kind response. athena Jan 2014 #319

Will white people ever start seeing blacks as people first, black last? Glassunion Jan 2014 #303

I'm not sure. athena Jan 2014 #310

So what? loose wheel Jan 2014 #311

Looks are meaningless. The only thing I care about is how well she can cook. sir pball Jan 2014 #315

Gotta say that I like men who can cook. leftyladyfrommo Jan 2014 #317

So do I! sir pball Jan 2014 #318