General Discussion

Ken Burch

(50,254 posts)

323. OK...this thread wasn't just about her, though.

Thu Jan 9, 2014, 05:47 PM

Jan 2014

It was about the whole mindset that drove Dem presidential politics in the Nineties.

My great fear is that, if we nominate another "mainstream" Dem in '16, that that will close the debate in the party for good. That there will be no future possibility for anyone to be the next Bobby Kennedy or Eugene McCarthy, or (especially)the next Shirley Chisholm. This party is hard to change when its leaders think it has found the One True Way to win.

I think that would also be a problem if, for some insane reason, the party nominated Biden in '16, since he would also be a "don't rock the boat" candidate.

If HRC were nominated, I would HOPE, at least, that she'd be better than Bill.

What those of you who are progressives for HRC should really be doing, at this point, as I see it(and I suppose it's my humble opinion, although calling oneself "humble" is usually a sign of overweening arrogance on the part of the person who does it, and I at least try to keep my arrogance acceptably weened) is to push her to reach out to those who were left out in the cold in the party in the Nineties...to make a clear break with the DLC/Blue Dog/Third Way position, and do so publicly. Doing that can only help her, from what I can see.

Edit history

Please sign in to view edit histories.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

340 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

Could there EVER be good reason to choose a DLC/THIRD WAY/BLUE DOG presidential nominee again? [View all] Ken Burch Jan 2014 OP

I liked Clinton. Was not a NAFTA fan though. hrmjustin Jan 2014 #1

NAFTA is basically the only major thing he did, though. Ken Burch Jan 2014 #4

Self-loathing I think not. Clinton won and Hillary is our best hope. hrmjustin Jan 2014 #5

Calling her "our best hope" implies that we are hopelessly in the minority Ken Burch Jan 2014 #8

I would say many Clinton supporters consider themselves progressive. hrmjustin Jan 2014 #9

Perhaps so. But they lack confidence in the strength of the progressive position. Ken Burch Jan 2014 #22

I don't think they lack strength in anything. We like her. hrmjustin Jan 2014 #25

That arrogant assumption that only a select few of you are true progressives is nonsense. Beacool Jan 2014 #77

So the DLC -- 3rd-Way are "progressive", now? Cool. delrem Jan 2014 #102

TPP is not progressive no matter how hard you spin it. Enthusiast Jan 2014 #120

+100 n/t whathehell Jan 2014 #130

You would work against the party's nominee????? Beacool Jan 2014 #141

Why would I work for someone that promotes Enthusiast Jan 2014 #299

Hillary would cut the social safety net? Beacool Jan 2014 #313

Disappointing isn't it? Enthusiast Jan 2014 #319

+1. TPP is not progressive in any way. liberal_at_heart Jan 2014 #269

There is no confusion between who are the progressives and who are the conservative DEmocrats. rhett o rick Jan 2014 #242

OK, as individuals you CAN be progressive. But why back the anti-progressive candidate? Ken Burch Jan 2014 #244

That would be me! Auntie Bush Jan 2014 #31

She voted for Bush's wars and supported them even after it was proven to her he had lied. If she did sabrina 1 Jan 2014 #61

How about Brown of OH? hrmjustin Jan 2014 #62

Yes, there are plenty of good Democrats to consider. Brown is one. sabrina 1 Jan 2014 #97

I rarely agree with you, but in this case you are 1000% correct. Whisp Jan 2014 #67

Thank you ... n/t sabrina 1 Jan 2014 #70

This is the problem I have with Hillary, too. cinnabonbon Jan 2014 #93

that's why many progressives who are left of Clinton no longer really self identify as liberal_at_heart Jan 2014 #267

I like Brown of OH as well. hrmjustin Jan 2014 #268

Message auto-removed Name removed Jan 2014 #304

"our best hope" pipoman Jan 2014 #115

Our Best Hope? bvar22 Jan 2014 #201

Who do you support? hrmjustin Jan 2014 #202

It is a little early yet, bvar22 Jan 2014 #217

I like Brown. hrmjustin Jan 2014 #218

I liked that he vetoed bankruptcy reform twice. BlueCaliDem Jan 2014 #37

I like that stuff too tazkcmo Jan 2014 #161

The Gramm-Leach-Blilely Act was veto-proof. BlueCaliDem Jan 2014 #174

I stand corrected. tazkcmo Jan 2014 #183

President Clinton was correct to have a change of heart re: Glass-Steagall. BlueCaliDem Jan 2014 #189

And thank you for being courteous. BlueCaliDem Jan 2014 #192

When I'm wrong tazkcmo Jan 2014 #213

You're forgetting that Clinton PUSHED those Dems to pass Gramm-Leach-Bliley. Ken Burch Jan 2014 #250

Self loathing????????? Beacool Jan 2014 #73

Just one of the many things duers have tought me about myself. NCTraveler Jan 2014 #135

I know. Beacool Jan 2014 #146

Self-loathing in terms of your core values-didn't mean self-loathing as human beings. Ken Burch Jan 2014 #266

I think that we just have a difference of opinions. Beacool Jan 2014 #314

OK...this thread wasn't just about her, though. Ken Burch Jan 2014 #323

MFN for China, Telecommunications Act, he did a LOT reddread Jan 2014 #124

In my view Clinton's NAFTA+GATT+Welfare Reform are not tiny nor insignificant and Ninga Jan 2014 #275

OK...they're significant...but not in a GOOD way. Ken Burch Jan 2014 #276

Clinton destroyed Haiti's rice farmers and starved their people. L0oniX Jan 2014 #318

OK...we could get a "photo negative" version of the "What have the Romans ever done for us?" scene Ken Burch Jan 2014 #324

What did he do that you liked? Throwing health care overboard in order to pursue his economic Egalitarian Thug Jan 2014 #51

The economy did well under him. hrmjustin Jan 2014 #53

The economy boomed because a revolutionary technology exploded into the the Egalitarian Thug Jan 2014 #56

If you believe that the economy boomed because of a short lived .com bubble AgingAmerican Jan 2014 #98

Did I say that? No. The economy and the stock market had only the most Egalitarian Thug Jan 2014 #101

1993 economic plan AgingAmerican Jan 2014 #178

My short answer is NO. Jackpine Radical Jan 2014 #2

+1 Segami Jan 2014 #38

Maybe if Zombie Hitler were running as a Democrat in the primaries DisgustipatedinCA Jan 2014 #3

Sorry I would vote for Zombie Hitler over a bluedog, namely because he would eat opponents. Katashi_itto Jan 2014 #18

Isn't "Third Way Manny" running on the DLC/Blue Dog platform??? madinmaryland Jan 2014 #6

I can't think of a good reason to vote for one again. Tierra_y_Libertad Jan 2014 #7

No. Things have moved too far right, in wrong direction. on point Jan 2014 #10

I will never vote for Clinton Katashi_itto Jan 2014 #11

And if she wins the nomination? hrmjustin Jan 2014 #13

I will vote 3rd party then. I will not vote for "death by a thousand paper cuts" Katashi_itto Jan 2014 #15

Who do you want then? hrmjustin Jan 2014 #16

No idea. The field is not rife with many options at this point. Katashi_itto Jan 2014 #17

I am jumping off the "lesser evil" merry-go-round. I won't go around on it another time. GoneFishin Jan 2014 #42

You have expressed very well the biggest issue the Democratic Party faces. Egalitarian Thug Jan 2014 #106

Exactly. sendero Jan 2014 #112

Count me out too - been there, done that too many times. polichick Jan 2014 #158

Funny how the 3rd way never moves to the left but pushes the left to move right. L0oniX Jan 2014 #166

Always. bvar22 Jan 2014 #205

Look at the Supreme Court and say that Warpy Jan 2014 #21

In the Nineties, the "Look at the Surpreme Court" argument Ken Burch Jan 2014 #24

I agree with you, especially given that anyone a Democrat Blue Dawg truedelphi Jan 2014 #30

Yes. Because the SCOTUS will sacrifice more people. jeff47 Jan 2014 #50

They don't care. Beacool Jan 2014 #85

As it has apparently escaped your notice, we've been down the rabbit hole and through the looking Egalitarian Thug Jan 2014 #107

Makes you wonder Soundman Jan 2014 #122

Because it is OUR party PowerToThePeople Jan 2014 #134

They believe that they are the only "true" Democrats. Beacool Jan 2014 #152

It is the third wayers destroying the party, not the "purists" PowerToThePeople Jan 2014 #155

If the Tea Party IS destroying the GOP brand, we don't HAVE to choose HRC. Ken Burch Jan 2014 #263

Yeah I know, it's so insufferable to worry about war crimes and the destruction of the working class sabrina 1 Jan 2014 #200

We put what you cynically call "purity" totally to the side in 1992. Ken Burch Jan 2014 #251

Roe v. Wade is one SCOTUS vote from being overturned or limited Gothmog Jan 2014 #283

This isn't about Nader. I'm not advocating voting third-party here. Ken Burch Jan 2014 #291

I am living with the consequences of people buying Nader's crap in 2000 and voting for a third party Gothmog Jan 2014 #34

BS, you are living with the theft of an election that had zero to do with the legalities of politics sabrina 1 Jan 2014 #69

treasonous crime PowerToThePeople Jan 2014 #72

Can't do that, there's too many criminals wearing blue so we have to "look forward". n/t Egalitarian Thug Jan 2014 #108

+1 a significant amount.......nt Enthusiast Jan 2014 #121

You are wrong-Nader's stupidity cost Al Gore both New Hampshire and Florida Gothmog Jan 2014 #281

All Gore won the election, the Feloniouos Five on the SC stole it. End of story. sabrina 1 Jan 2014 #295

I don't back Nader. And HRC isn't the ONLY Dem that can win in 2016. Ken Burch Jan 2014 #278

I will vote for the Democratic nominee Gothmog Jan 2014 #285

^^^This^^^ BlueCaliDem Jan 2014 #40

Yes, we all used to feel that way not so long ago, but you belong to a shrinking minority now that sabrina 1 Jan 2014 #80

Yes, we should do a Bush v Gore 2.0 in 2016. That'll teach those Democrats! BlueCaliDem Jan 2014 #142

'Die hards'? Well, your idea of die hards and mine are obviously different. The die hards who keep sabrina 1 Jan 2014 #177

Yes, Sabrina, we obviously have different takes on what a "die-hard" is, and BlueCaliDem Jan 2014 #181

We lost in 2010 because of the die hards who insisted that we had no choice but to continue to sabrina 1 Jan 2014 #194

You seem to believe the "passionate Left" is in a minority and must settle for junior-partner status Ken Burch Jan 2014 #279

Every candidate that the "'passionate Left" stood behind, had lost. BlueCaliDem Jan 2014 #284

Problem there was that your candidate was unknown, not that he was progressive. Ken Burch Jan 2014 #287

You've misinterpreted my use of the term. BlueCaliDem Jan 2014 #315

OK, I did misinterpret your use of that term. Sorry. Ken Burch Jan 2014 #325

Thank you. And thank you. BlueCaliDem Jan 2014 #327

Yes, let's do that and let's find someone who will make sure we have PROGRESSIVES on the SC rather sabrina 1 Jan 2014 #76

Well, we know that's not going to happen with the Republicans Warpy Jan 2014 #100

Well we've been working that way for decades now and it hasn't worked for millions of people, not sabrina 1 Jan 2014 #173

Many people don't notice the GOP has gone terminal, I wouldn't trust them with the Button uponit7771 Jan 2014 #110

Then it becomes a case of Darwinism of a Civilization scale. Katashi_itto Jan 2014 #227

I see it as "Death by the Corporate and Total Surveillance State Drones" truedelphi Jan 2014 #32

Either way you vote you'll get that Katashi_itto Jan 2014 #49

Yep, either way! truedelphi Jan 2014 #221

Exactly, hence my voting 3rd party Katashi_itto Jan 2014 #225

No problem............. Beacool Jan 2014 #84

How is that supposed to bother me? Katashi_itto Jan 2014 #86

Hillary will be significantly left of Obama. joshcryer Jan 2014 #87

Bully for her. Still won't vote for a corporatist. Katashi_itto Jan 2014 #89

did you vote for Obama? joshcryer Jan 2014 #206

Silly question, yep. I was thinking that "Hope and Change" thing Katashi_itto Jan 2014 #207

fair enough joshcryer Jan 2014 #210

Will she be campaigning to the left of Senator Obama or President Obama? winter is coming Jan 2014 #91

isn't that the question though, Whisp Jan 2014 #169

yes joshcryer Jan 2014 #212

A gamble? More like a sucker bet. n/t winter is coming Jan 2014 #274

The Republicans are banking on 'Democrats' like you AgingAmerican Jan 2014 #99

Well, I guess our party is banking on people like you. Voting yet again for the lesser Katashi_itto Jan 2014 #114

I vote to prevent AgingAmerican Jan 2014 #175

And I have no problems with your strategy. However believing thats the only strategy available is Katashi_itto Jan 2014 #193

The only strategy should be... AgingAmerican Jan 2014 #195

Oh I agree with everything except the last part. I used to vote that way. Saw where it got us Katashi_itto Jan 2014 #196

Well, as a film maker AgingAmerican Jan 2014 #198

Thanks, but if you ever want to get heard, let me know I would be happy to craft a PSA that declares Katashi_itto Jan 2014 #199

A thousand tiny steps treestar Jan 2014 #172

Don't you get it? People have moved way beyond the 'lesser evil' manipulation. We have 'moved sabrina 1 Jan 2014 #64

ok. hrmjustin Jan 2014 #65

Same here. Marr Jan 2014 #92

no. nt Demo_Chris Jan 2014 #12

No. snot Jan 2014 #14

Absolutely CFLDem Jan 2014 #19

That's part of the concern. Ken Burch Jan 2014 #23

Well I guess we have to agree to disagree. CFLDem Jan 2014 #33

You may be right but I think the argument is that we must have someone more progressive rhett o rick Jan 2014 #39

Bill Clinton agrees with Paul Ryan on Medicare. Enthusiast Jan 2014 #123

Are you kidding? whathehell Jan 2014 #133

I owe a wonderful childhood to Bill Clinton's leadership of this country. CFLDem Jan 2014 #143

LOL.. whathehell Jan 2014 #247

Actually CFLDem Jan 2014 #252

Actually.. whathehell Jan 2014 #256

That's unfortunate. CFLDem Jan 2014 #262

Yes, especially since whathehell Jan 2014 #282

Not the best in YOUR generation, maybe. sir pball Jan 2014 #147

LOL.. whathehell Jan 2014 #245

Even though he STILL sees the Left as the enemy? Ken Burch Jan 2014 #280

Absolutely not n/t arcane1 Jan 2014 #20

Of course. The alternative could be worse. aikoaiko Jan 2014 #26

Good question. Seems all we have to choose from right now though Phlem Jan 2014 #27

It's funny how the Tea Party dolts believe President Obama is a socialist/commie Common Sense Party Jan 2014 #148

Good luck fighting the Dem party establishment. elleng Jan 2014 #28

Sadly, I know what you mean. Chan790 Jan 2014 #35

As I've said before, I met and talked to Wayne Powell -- he was a great Dem Nay Jan 2014 #145

very sorry to hear that. Whisp Jan 2014 #154

I don't know to whom he had to apply, but he didn't get a dime. He used Nay Jan 2014 #156

Cantor - in the top ten on my Evil list... Whisp Jan 2014 #163

It is infuriating. It opened my eyes to the whole sham our elections are. nt Nay Jan 2014 #167

No. Chan790 Jan 2014 #29

Not just no, but hell no. woo me with science Jan 2014 #36

I am with woo. nm rhett o rick Jan 2014 #74

Some here are not willing to fight for their freedoms and liberties. They support the status quo rhett o rick Jan 2014 #41

+1000. Also, Dim-Son. LOL. GoneFishin Jan 2014 #44

Which freedoms and liberties, specifically? nt Common Sense Party Jan 2014 #149

Good grief. You really want a list? YOu ask the question as if you cant think of rhett o rick Jan 2014 #214

I wasn't aware of any Democrat who has moved to nullify habeus corpus Common Sense Party Jan 2014 #228

Non-awareness is no excuse. My statement was that some here arent willing to fight for rhett o rick Jan 2014 #234

The whole thread has to do with so-called "third-way" Democrats. Common Sense Party Jan 2014 #236

I said that there are some that are unwilling to fight for their freedoms and liberties. They are rhett o rick Jan 2014 #240

Yep, that's me. Common Sense Party Jan 2014 #241

I see, this is about Obama. The hell with the freedoms and liberties, but how can we defend Obama. rhett o rick Jan 2014 #243

What a revolting, dishonest post you just made. woo me with science Jan 2014 #302

I will continue to work for Democrats who can GET ELECTED... brooklynite Jan 2014 #43

A couple of things. Your "that's good enough for me" is what is killing the middle class. rhett o rick Jan 2014 #58

You seem to spend a lot of time here. By your logic, how do you have time to 'work to get sabrina 1 Jan 2014 #94

Funny you should ask... brooklynite Jan 2014 #286

I never doubted that people walk away from their computers, that was YOUR accusation against sabrina 1 Jan 2014 #296

I think most of us already know what you'll work for. n/t Egalitarian Thug Jan 2014 #109

EVERY nominee becomes DLC/THIRD WAY/BLUE DOG the moment they say something "unprogressive" wyldwolf Jan 2014 #45

Certainly when they get chummy with Goldman-Sachs and the Carlyle Group. nm rhett o rick Jan 2014 #75

and most definitely when a pic surfaces of them within the same 20 mile radius as a Bush wyldwolf Jan 2014 #105

And most definitely when they pardon the Bush Gang and let Gov Siegelman rot in prison. nm rhett o rick Jan 2014 #215

Who pardoned the Bush gang? wyldwolf Jan 2014 #303

****THIS SHOULD BE AN OP***** uponit7771 Jan 2014 #111

You're talking about Democrats, right? 'Once elected they have to govern' which means sabrina 1 Jan 2014 #179

perhaps in YOUR world 'govern' means 'cave and compromise.' wyldwolf Jan 2014 #180

I'm a Democrat so in my world winning means YOU get to set the agenda and compromise doesn't sabrina 1 Jan 2014 #197

when a president wins, she sets the agenda. But there's this inconvenient thing called Congress wyldwolf Jan 2014 #223

And when one party wins control of all three branches of government sabrina 1 Jan 2014 #230

now that the civics lesson is over, tell me how that happens in the current political climate? wyldwolf Jan 2014 #232

The 'current political climate' is no different and in some ways even BETTER than it has always been sabrina 1 Jan 2014 #298

What planet are you living on? wyldwolf Jan 2014 #300

This utter nonsense again? Pretending it's all obstructionism? woo me with science Jan 2014 #330

Reality isn't nonsense wyldwolf Jan 2014 #332

From one desperate Third Way talking point to the next. woo me with science Jan 2014 #333

one progressive magic fairy dust talking point to another. wyldwolf Jan 2014 #334

Seem you are trying to rationalize why Bill Clinton signed NAFTA and killed Glass-Steigall or rhett o rick Jan 2014 #219

Never even crossed my mind, but as long as you're reaching into your faux psychic grab bag... wyldwolf Jan 2014 #224

Ah yes, when you have nothing you always can resort to ridicule. nm rhett o rick Jan 2014 #235

which is better than fake fortune telling. wyldwolf Jan 2014 #237

We're done. nm rhett o rick Jan 2014 #238

we never started. wyldwolf Jan 2014 #239

wrong, one poster started (discussing and being civil) and you never even tried. bobduca Jan 2014 #288

I have no use for anyone who puts words in my mouth or who states his guesses as fact wyldwolf Jan 2014 #293

no violations, nothing to alert bobduca Jan 2014 #294

Just because you didn't like what I had to say doesn't mean it wan't civil. wyldwolf Jan 2014 #301

Exactly. We live in the real world. Adrahil Jan 2014 #307

Hey look everyone, a centrist attacking liberals at DU! bobduca Jan 2014 #316

The problem is the whole political spectrum has shifted right justiceischeap Jan 2014 #46

Yes ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2014 #47

If those who select our presidents Jakes Progress Jan 2014 #48

Sure, if that's who it takes to win. Recursion Jan 2014 #52

Even FDR gets "trashed" on the DU if someone thinks it will make Obama look one scintilla better Fumesucker Jan 2014 #277

+1 nt Adrahil Jan 2014 #308

I may end up voting socialist PowerToThePeople Jan 2014 #54

Contractarian Clinton policy bolstered the Work not Welfare crowd. I think it gave repukes Ed Suspicious Jan 2014 #55

If they get more votes than a progressive liberal in the primary is the only good reason I can think Agnosticsherbet Jan 2014 #57

Um, No. PFunk Jan 2014 #59

This message was self-deleted by its author PowerToThePeople Jan 2014 #60

(sigh) typo ... which I've already corrected PFunk Jan 2014 #95

Only if you are a pro corporate person. Rex Jan 2014 #63

Yes..you could vote for me. OmahaBlueDog Jan 2014 #66

The answer to that is hell fucking no! lonestarnot Jan 2014 #68

This message was self-deleted by its author Drunken Irishman Jan 2014 #71

Why did you vote for one in 92, 96, 2000, '04, '08, and '12? Renew Deal Jan 2014 #78

I guess that the masturbatory posts of the Left will continue for the next two years. Beacool Jan 2014 #79

You are not part of this 'left' you speak of with so much disdain? 'masturbatory'? I have heard sabrina 1 Jan 2014 #81

The rending of the vestments of some people here has become tiresome. Beacool Jan 2014 #83

I can't think of a better time to let the Party know what the voters want. Are you suggesting that sabrina 1 Jan 2014 #88

Who here has declared Hillary the winner? Beacool Jan 2014 #90

Well if you don't like the left stating facts in response to the pushing of a candidate on them sabrina 1 Jan 2014 #96

Thanks for the confession! You are not Left and neither is Hillary. Whisp Jan 2014 #164

How's the weather in Canada? Beacool Jan 2014 #184

It is horrible, Bea. We've had -40, That is the same in Farenheit and the in Celsius and Whisp Jan 2014 #185

I'm in NJ across the river looking into Manhattan. Beacool Jan 2014 #186

I'm in the Canadian prairies, the middle. Whisp Jan 2014 #216

That sounds like a coooooold area. Beacool Jan 2014 #229

Wait, now we're going to revise and say the purists "chose" DLC Obama? joshcryer Jan 2014 #82

If it's the only way to get a Democrat elected, yes. pnwmom Jan 2014 #103

A good reason? I suppose the fact that the Third Wayers are much more likely to get a lot more Douglas Carpenter Jan 2014 #104

so what you are saying FatBuddy Jan 2014 #113

there is a center-right but not completely insane party that at least has some glue to reality and Douglas Carpenter Jan 2014 #117

I prefer republicans over blue dogs RedstDem Jan 2014 #116

ARE YOU NUTS? WinkyDink Jan 2014 #127

yes, i am nuts RedstDem Jan 2014 #139

Tweedle-dum and Tweetle-dummer, eh? Right. WinkyDink Jan 2014 #170

This message was self-deleted by its author Ed Suspicious Jan 2014 #128

Yes - If we want to win. n/t Lil Missy Jan 2014 #118

Not just no, but FUCK NO. 99Forever Jan 2014 #119

Clinton: Balanced budget. No wars to speak of. (Yes, NAFTA was/is awful.) WinkyDink Jan 2014 #125

'no wars to speak of'.... Whisp Jan 2014 #339

I would say that a battle between the Clintonites and the So-Called Progressives is bad news alcibiades_mystery Jan 2014 #126

LOL! ProSense Jan 2014 #137

Why do you hate the left?1! Bobbie Jo Jan 2014 #160

it will be glorious joshcryer Jan 2014 #203

Hell, I might even take the 20 some odd So-Called Progressives I have on ignore off the list alcibiades_mystery Jan 2014 #204

I would highly recommend it joshcryer Jan 2014 #208

What do you mean "So-Called Progressive"? There are a lot more progressives than there centrists Ken Burch Jan 2014 #249

In a word, No. whathehell Jan 2014 #129

When you don't have a better candidate. JoePhilly Jan 2014 #131

Well if you were a more moderate centrist Democrat than I suppose they might represent el_bryanto Jan 2014 #132

Yes, because that is where the most votes are. MO_Moderate Jan 2014 #136

That's the narrative they want us to buy, but if you ask about policies... polichick Jan 2014 #140

It is what our election results show us MO_Moderate Jan 2014 #144

The WHOLE story is that RepubliCons and Third Way "Dems"... polichick Jan 2014 #150

That opinion of the story MO_Moderate Jan 2014 #187

The people are fooled by terms like "moderates" - there's nothing... polichick Jan 2014 #188

That's a pipe-dream I'm afraid Adrahil Jan 2014 #309

It's HOW the story is told that could change things quickly... polichick Jan 2014 #311

Maybe, but I have yet to see it work. Adrahil Jan 2014 #312

Quite a bit of the incremental issue has to do with Dems... polichick Jan 2014 #321

I don't think it's that easy. Adrahil Jan 2014 #322

Not to mention our current Third Way president... polichick Jan 2014 #138

Whining doesn't win elections. JoePhilly Jan 2014 #151

Stating a fact is hardly "whining" - get a grip. polichick Jan 2014 #153

That was a whine. Fact. JoePhilly Jan 2014 #157

Yes, your post was definitely a whine. polichick Jan 2014 #159

Well then isn't it time to stop whining and get busy finding Democratic candidates to vote for sabrina 1 Jan 2014 #182

Agreed about the incumbent. Ken Burch Jan 2014 #290

so that they get elected by some republicans. librechik Jan 2014 #162

No. Le Taz Hot Jan 2014 #165

YES, of course, for self-evident reasons. Coyotl Jan 2014 #168

Except even with a "win" the people lose. polichick Jan 2014 #191

She's no more popular than any other Dem candidate that's being talked about. Ken Burch Jan 2014 #246

You assign that label too easily treestar Jan 2014 #171

No (nt) bigwillq Jan 2014 #176

No. FiveGoodMen Jan 2014 #190

DURec. bvar22 Jan 2014 #209

Could there EVER be a good reason to stop talking about the least useful position in the government? randome Jan 2014 #211

Electabilty? Proud Liberal Dem Jan 2014 #220

I liked Clinton, I like Obama Progressive dog Jan 2014 #222

A gun to my head? 1000words Jan 2014 #226

Yes, that would be a good reason. Ken Burch Jan 2014 #289

That's what it'll take 1000words Jan 2014 #292

I really, really hope Hillary is the nominee in 2016... SidDithers Jan 2014 #231

Wait 'til Warren campaigns for her. nt msanthrope Jan 2014 #253

It doesn't mean anything if Warren does that in the fall of '16. Ken Burch Jan 2014 #259

The Fall of 2015??? nt msanthrope Jan 2014 #261

You know perfectly well there's no good reason for Warren to WANT HRC nominated. Ken Burch Jan 2014 #265

Oh Ken....you are a caution! nt msanthrope Jan 2014 #273

.... Cali_Democrat Jan 2014 #271

LOL!!!! DevonRex Jan 2014 #297

There IS always a bad reason. Agony Jan 2014 #233

never again! liberal_at_heart Jan 2014 #248

Could there ever be a good reason to forget the critical campaigns of 2014? Hekate Jan 2014 #254

FUD'ers gotta FUD... SidDithers Jan 2014 #270

Nobody's forgetting them. Ken Burch Jan 2014 #329

You mean as opposed to Sarah Palin, or Mitt Romney, or Chris Christie, or Paul Ryan, or Squinch Jan 2014 #255

I was talking about who we nominate, not who we'd vote for in the fall. Ken Burch Jan 2014 #258

Ah, that's different. But if Hill is the nominee, I'll vote for her. Squinch Jan 2014 #260

That is ahistorical. Benton D Struckcheon Jan 2014 #257

Absolutely not. Vashta Nerada Jan 2014 #264

Yes. MannyGoldstein Jan 2014 #272

They are predators. They are corporatists who put on Democrat costumes woo me with science Jan 2014 #305

"They are not "centrists." They are corporate fascists"... polichick Jan 2014 #310

The last time we did that LWolf Jan 2014 #306

Well, we didn't KNOW we were doing that in 2008, in all fairness. Ken Burch Jan 2014 #328

Come on, Ken. wyldwolf Jan 2014 #335

In the end, the choice was to take a chance on Obama Ken Burch Jan 2014 #336

Really? When Obama's own words were (from Audacity of Hope)... wyldwolf Jan 2014 #337

We need to make them see. LWolf Jan 2014 #338

Sure - to spark polite, mature, well reasoned political discussion on DU hack89 Jan 2014 #317

Kick. No way in hell. woo me with science Jan 2014 #320

He's getting his fast-tracked TPP! woo me with science Jan 2014 #326

kick woo me with science Jan 2014 #331

Not one good reason to choose Hillitary for the nom. Whisp Jan 2014 #340