I'd like to think there is a consensus; There are things you don't say in mixed company.

[Ms. Toad]

62. For one reason, because one of those 5 guys might just be

my high school sweetheart who came out to me in her 50s as a transgender woman, and for most of those 5 decades of life it was very painful for her to be present when guys said things about women they presumed they were saying only around other guys.

And she just recently shared her shame that she let too much sexism (among other things) go unchallenged in situations like you mention for fear of being discovered.

While her situation not the norm, it is not rare. There are also many men who are uncomfortable with the kind of things you feel you should be able to say when women aren't around - but who find it hard to speak up for a variety of reasons (avoiding confrontation, fear of being perceived as feminine, and so on).

Which isn't exactly the answer to your question, which is why it is not appropriate on DU. And I do appreciate that what you were getting at is the need to be careful of the feelings of women who might be hurt or offended by what you feel free to say when you presume no women are around. What my response really answers is the question of whether it should be said at all.

Back to my friend, I share a lot of her angst. I happen to be part of many groups which people put down. To name a few Lesbian, rape survivor, sibling of 3 Native Americans, sibling of a man who spent 20 years on death row. I hear far too much about what people really think about me, because I am the invisible "other" and they feel free to talk about me because it never crosses their mind I am present (as it never crossed anyone's mind that a woman was present when my friend was around). I have heard similar stories from blacks who passed as whites for years. If it is something that would be offensive to the person who is being talked about, it really shouldn't be said at all. Often I can turn the conversations about me into conversations with me, and I do because I think letting people know when what they are saying is hurtful is important - because many people really aren't consciously aware their words sting. But it takes a lot out of me to do that face to face on the spur of the moment, and sometimes I don't manage and people (perhaps like you) aren't aware that what you are saying even in what you believe to be unmixed company can still be hurtful.