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alcibiades_mystery

(36,437 posts)

37. I think Godless Biker is identifying a middle zone between "conscious choice" and "hard wired"

Fri Mar 16, 2012, 05:13 PM

Mar 2012

I happen to agree with him on that. We have all kinds of fluid desires that we do not choose in a conscious manner, but that can and do change with experience and time (and so are not "hard wired" in any biological sense). Godless Biker is calling this "preference."

Whether that kind of middle zone applies to sexual desire or typical attraction, I don't know.

I am uncomfortable with the idea that our desires are fixed at birth, since it seems to be a claim of dubious scientific merit (though it is obviously of very high political worth). "Orientation" and "hard wiring" are certainly more politically effective positions, since they don't require us to get into the thorny questions of how desires take shape and change over time - a deviously complex question that few people want to get into when they're making claims for rights in the political sphere.

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Sincere question: "Sexual preference" or "Sexual orientation"? [View all] Stinky The Clown Mar 2012 OP

While I am not gay, but do have a lesbian daughter HockeyMom Mar 2012 #1

I'd agree with you. I didn't choose to be straight, it's just who I am, so I don't think gateley Mar 2012 #7

Thanks. That's the conclusion I drew, too, for the same reason. Stinky The Clown Mar 2012 #8

In most cases, that would appear to be the case. kiss me im irish Mar 2012 #56

Preference implies choice? You prefer vanilla over chocolate ice cream. Did you choose that? GodlessBiker Mar 2012 #2

Are you comparing taste choice of ice cream to sexual orientation? uppityperson Mar 2012 #6

In a way, yes. We all are presented with desires that we do not choose. GodlessBiker Mar 2012 #17

Oh, I chose my preferences all the time. I used to prefer 22 yr olds, now 50 yr olds. uppityperson Mar 2012 #24

So, tomorrow, choose to prefer 22 year-old again. I don't think you could. GodlessBiker Mar 2012 #28

I am not sure what your point is since you seem to be saying orientation doesn't change, but uppityperson Mar 2012 #30

I think Godless Biker is identifying a middle zone between "conscious choice" and "hard wired" alcibiades_mystery Mar 2012 #37

But you'd probably eat either, right? Just because you prefer one doesn't mean the other doesn't gateley Mar 2012 #13

My sister-in-law prefers her steak well done. If it has pink in it, she won't eat it. End of story GodlessBiker Mar 2012 #21

Haha! Well, you present a good example, gateley Mar 2012 #23

I've gone to many orientations in my lifetime Duer 157099 Mar 2012 #3

Bisexuals don't make a choice in their sexual orientation either. Behind the Aegis Mar 2012 #9

Not what I meant Duer 157099 Mar 2012 #27

Bisexual's orientation is bi-sexual. Their preference, their choice of who, etc, is their choice. uppityperson Mar 2012 #16

That's what I meant Duer 157099 Mar 2012 #29

Orientation is how you are, hard wiring. Preference is what you chose to do. It depends on what uppityperson Mar 2012 #4

isn't sexual orientation more complex than that Johonny Mar 2012 #31

It may not be digital, more analogue, but you are what you are. uppityperson Mar 2012 #33

I think it's more of a semantic difference, but I know many'll get offended if "preference" is used EOTE Mar 2012 #5

My sexual orientation is gay. My sexual preference is...well, if you really want to know... Behind the Aegis Mar 2012 #10

I think you said it right bowens43 Mar 2012 #11

Bisexuals might prefer the word "preference". izquierdista Mar 2012 #12

Do they chose to be bisexual, or chose which sex to have sex with when? uppityperson Mar 2012 #22

Nope. It's also an orientation. TrogL Mar 2012 #26

That is incorrect. The orientation of bisexuals is not flexible. They are bisexual. yardwork Mar 2012 #53

prefer to use my left hand because I'm oriented to use to use my left hand LanternWaste Mar 2012 #14

I'm hard wired straight JustAnotherGen Mar 2012 #15

Orientation, Sir, Seems Preferable To Me The Magistrate Mar 2012 #18

I think it's certainly the less contentious choice, but I am finding this discussion very MADem Mar 2012 #36

My sexual orientation is straight guitar man Mar 2012 #19

Speaking as a word geek, I would opt hifiguy Mar 2012 #20

Neither are perfect terms but HockeyMom Mar 2012 #25

It may be genetic or it may be nurture or may be some of both... in the end SWTORFanatic Mar 2012 #34

My preference is to have sex vs. NOT have sex excuse not to write Mar 2012 #32

I am oriented towards women. I have no interest in being with a man. I prefer brunettes, but SWTORFanatic Mar 2012 #35

Do straight people feel like they "choose" the opposite sex to be attracted to, or Lex Mar 2012 #38

I grew up in Greenwich Village HockeyMom Mar 2012 #41

I suspect everyone already knows that. The question in the OP is which term is preferred. Stinky The Clown Mar 2012 #42

Which term do you prefer for yourself, then? Lex Mar 2012 #46

Go with "orientation" Prophet 451 Mar 2012 #39

My guess. Rex Mar 2012 #40

Sexual preference would be, for example, whether you like being on top or bottom... Humanist_Activist Mar 2012 #43

Just "sexuality", neither preference nor orientation. Spider Jerusalem Mar 2012 #44

Sexual Orientation The Genealogist Mar 2012 #45

+1,000,000,000,000 HuckleB Mar 2012 #48

Got Duh! HuckleB Mar 2012 #47

Is that puke smiley directed at me? Stinky The Clown Mar 2012 #50

It's aimed at the propagandists that push the "preference" meme. HuckleB Mar 2012 #51

I didn't realize there were such people. Stinky The Clown Mar 2012 #52

Are you? HuckleB Mar 2012 #59

All you needed to do was say that. Stinky The Clown Mar 2012 #60

I said it in the first place. HuckleB Mar 2012 #62

The OP was my attempt to educate myself, actually Stinky The Clown Mar 2012 #63

Sexual preference is a yes or no question. donheld Mar 2012 #49

"sexual preference" is actively used by the religious right to demean gay people ruggerson Mar 2012 #54

Thanks! Stinky The Clown Mar 2012 #55

No problem STC ruggerson Mar 2012 #57

I use "orientation" nowadays. Iggo Mar 2012 #58

Orientation for sure, though there are complications with any label. GliderGuider Mar 2012 #61

Sexual preference is for hair color (etc.), orientation is for gender. ZombieHorde Mar 2012 #64