General Discussion

dreamnightwind

(4,775 posts)

233. It's not actually a war

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 12:51 PM

Jan 2014

That's the truth of it. How do you win a war against terror? You don't, there is no possible end-point other than voluntary cessation. No enemy to surrender or to defeat. It's a series of mostly unconnected attacks against people we decide are enemy combatants, not a war, and few of the dead are actually deserving of their fate.

That's my opinion, but we'll never know for sure, since there is no trial, no evidence presented, no jury, no oversight by anyone that has any authority. In my book it's murder, and I think it takes a lot of mental gymnastics to see it any other way. If it stills seems murky to you, it's informative to recall how we felt about this policy when Bush was POTUS.

Obama didn't start this, Bush did, at least the drone killings. But we didn't elect Obama to continue this policy, nor to legitimize it in any way. Which he has done, aggressively.

Would this kind of criticism get someone kicked out of the BOG? I don't hang out there so don't know, but it seems to me that while we should support Obama against Republicans, we should never support him against the truth, which is that innocent people we know nothing about are trembling in fear as they go to bed not knowing if they and their loved ones will be murdered in their sleep by an unseen drone.

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Democrats plead with Obama to abandon Social Security cut [View all] boston bean Jan 2014 OP

Just remember that it is not a slash...so it won't be as bad. R. Daneel Olivaw Jan 2014 #1

It is worse than a slash ... Gordon Alf Shumway Jan 2014 #13

Yes Gordon it is death by a 1000 cuts. saidsimplesimon Jan 2014 #230

Well get ready for the fight ... Gordon Alf Shumway Jan 2014 #231

Our Federal Reserve is still buying seventy-five billion in "Derivatives" from banks every month. another_liberal Jan 2014 #116

+1. (Sorry I posted about the Fed before reading your post.) merrily Jan 2014 #254

The bailout pales in comparison with trillions from the Fed. merrily Jan 2014 #253

It is a sad time indeed when Democrats have to plead with a doc03 Jan 2014 #2

It is even more sad that some won't acknowledge it even when is is bearing down on them. R. Daneel Olivaw Jan 2014 #4

ignore those idiots Skittles Jan 2014 #14

Ignore those idiots. They are not credible. bvar22 Jan 2014 #42

exactly Skittles Jan 2014 #150

I doubt that. Especially if HRC is elected. Vincardog Jan 2014 #204

lol Skittles Jan 2014 #208

Seriously. imo in that situation you have to put "Democratic" in quotes. polichick Jan 2014 #62

BHO is a former Reagan Republican. He said so himself. Why won't people believe him ??? blkmusclmachine Jan 2014 #149

He's really not Reagan. woo me with science Jan 2014 #173

Too bad he put that D behind his name... polichick Jan 2014 #179

My thoughts exactly... whathehell Jan 2014 #223

That is because there is no Democratic Party. Only the Repug party and TeaParty. NT bonniebgood Jan 2014 #232

Don't you know that this post, Democrat's uneasyness with PBO's proposed cuts, and anybody R. Daneel Olivaw Jan 2014 #3

Senator Chris Murphy never really loved him!! QC Jan 2014 #32

Isn't he the senator that spent a day shadowing a homeless man to know what it's like? CrispyQ Jan 2014 #117

The only branch that should be extended to Republicans is a switch. Barack_America Jan 2014 #5

Obama's rescinded proposals in the past, huge ones MannyGoldstein Jan 2014 #6

True love must be pursued at all costs. jsr Jan 2014 #12

Obama loves him some ronnie. Jakes Progress Jan 2014 #134

K&R DeSwiss Jan 2014 #7

For the rest of his term, and I'm no fucking mind reader or Rocket scientist but.... Phlem Jan 2014 #8

"but maybe they might really like me this time!" FatBuddy Jan 2014 #9

Yep. Sheldon Cooper Jan 2014 #44

Or maybe he agrees with them on several issues? If so, I wish he would have told us back in 2008. sabrina 1 Jan 2014 #245

it disgusts me to think that FatBuddy Jan 2014 #246

BHO does what he wants. He's not running for reelection anymore. blkmusclmachine Jan 2014 #152

I know right? Phlem Jan 2014 #161

+++1000 nt Curmudgeoness Jan 2014 #201

Democrats plead with Democratic president to abandon Social Security cut jsr Jan 2014 #10

Honestly, it makes me weep in frustration. That SS cuts are even Nay Jan 2014 #39

+1000 n/t whathehell Jan 2014 #226

Everything! whathehell Jan 2014 #224

Are we still pretending this is super chess? Demo_Chris Jan 2014 #11

That's sad, but it made me laugh. --nt CrispyQ Jan 2014 #118

It comes with a poverty exception and will never pass. joshcryer Jan 2014 #15

It's really upside down when there are those who think Christie is Presidential material VPStoltz Jan 2014 #16

Lame duck president fouling the waters for democrats at midterm. uggghhh. Ed Suspicious Jan 2014 #17

If this goes through newfie11 Jan 2014 #24

But remember, if Dems don't get gobs of votes in the midterms, it's all Nay Jan 2014 #40

Looks like the SS give-away, will be just in time to hurt the DEMS at midterms. blkmusclmachine Jan 2014 #154

b and s Whisp Jan 2014 #91

So cutting SS is OK if done by Obama? lark Jan 2014 #120

get back to me when he does this 'cut'... Whisp Jan 2014 #121

It's not just up to him lark Jan 2014 #124

PAY NO ATTENTION TO DEMOCRATIC SENATORS WHEN THEY VOICE CONCERN OVER SOCIAL SECURITY Maedhros Jan 2014 #129

Wasn't his proposal ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2014 #148

If you exempt the elderly and disabled, you have exempted 100% of benficiaries of Social Security Bluenorthwest Jan 2014 #182

Okay ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2014 #189

Can YOU maybe, answer a question I have been asking for years since Bush et al sabrina 1 Jan 2014 #247

First, Let's be clear ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2014 #248

Thank you for your civil response. I do see your pov and obviously I do not agree that Democrats sabrina 1 Jan 2014 #249

I'm afraid the differences in our POVs ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2014 #252

I'm glad this is in GD. I got banned from the Obama forum for saying what I think loudsue Jan 2014 #18

I knew I liked you. Same thing happened to me. Scuba Jan 2014 #25

I'm glad to know I'm in good company! loudsue Jan 2014 #36

me as well lol Demo_Chris Jan 2014 #58

And me. FiveGoodMen Jan 2014 #77

Yep, same here. Thats how the Greatest Page is Censored. bahrbearian Jan 2014 #30

We should start a forum of our own: people who got kicked out of the Obama forum loudsue Jan 2014 #37

Yes and it would be a protected group. Heads would explode. bahrbearian Jan 2014 #38

Or it would be populated with a bunch of anti-President Obama folks ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2014 #56

More like disappointed voters. bahrbearian Jan 2014 #71

Yeah ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2014 #76

Obama claims the power to execute American citizens without due process. Maedhros Jan 2014 #131

President Obama claims the power to ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2014 #141

So - you're okay with the President killing whomever he wants Maedhros Jan 2014 #218

Yes ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2014 #221

You make many assumptions. Maedhros Jan 2014 #236

The assumptions I make are based on ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2014 #238

Short answer: you don't know, and are trusting the military and the CIA to not lie to us. Maedhros Jan 2014 #239

Okay. n/t 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2014 #240

It's not actually a war dreamnightwind Jan 2014 #233

I largely agree ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2014 #234

Overstated, but fairly on target. Jakes Progress Jan 2014 #138

Don't you mean populated by the vast majority of DUers? A Simple Game Jan 2014 #133

I don't need to ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2014 #143

Wow you make it sound good. I don't see most of it your way but let's hope you are right. A Simple Game Jan 2014 #151

No ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2014 #165

You do realize President Obama isn't running in 2014? A Simple Game Jan 2014 #172

Yes ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2014 #185

Why? tjl148 Jan 2014 #217

Okay ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2014 #220

Actually, see post 42 Jakes Progress Jan 2014 #136

"Complete (President) Obama-lust? ... Really? n/t 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2014 #145

Thank you. whathehell Jan 2014 #225

I'm in. No dissent allowed over there. Just pretty pictures, and praise of all things Obama. blkmusclmachine Jan 2014 #157

I'll join MNBrewer Jan 2014 #183

.....Where never is heard..... a discouraging word, bvar22 Jan 2014 #47

You probably were "banned" because you insist on promoting a false narrative ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2014 #55

Do you support President Obama's offer? Broward Jan 2014 #81

As it was proposed ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2014 #89

So, you believe that most Social Security recipient's benefits are too generous? TheKentuckian Jan 2014 #107

NO, that is NOT my argument ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2014 #109

If the offer is okay then you are saying benefits are too generous except for the very bottom TheKentuckian Jan 2014 #177

Have you read ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2014 #192

So, you appear to be supportive of the offer as some type of political calculation. Broward Jan 2014 #184

The Republicans don't need proof of anything, Progressive dog Jan 2014 #199

Given the choice between traditional Democratic values Maedhros Jan 2014 #132

It exempts only those on means tested benefits, it includes those on Social Security. It just does. Bluenorthwest Jan 2014 #187

No, it doesn't. MannyGoldstein Jan 2014 #216

Okay ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2014 #219

You're so funny. Jakes Progress Jan 2014 #241

No ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2014 #243

Same deal. My they are extremely protective of Ed Suspicious Jan 2014 #105

I didn't last long in there either LiberalLovinLug Jan 2014 #119

Permanent damage for short term gain AgingAmerican Jan 2014 #19

It's not a game Oilwellian Jan 2014 #21

It is a game AgingAmerican Jan 2014 #22

he gives them are things they have wanted for decades, but they don't dare because it would be DJ13 Jan 2014 #195

Clinton made no such deals witht he GOP AgingAmerican Jan 2014 #197

Here is what he promised "on the Campaign Trail": bvar22 Jan 2014 #49

Here were his exact words - October 2012 DrDan Jan 2014 #70

Here are his exact words: bvar22 Jan 2014 #198

yet he was pitching CCPI 4 years later DrDan Jan 2014 #202

I don't have to explain it. bvar22 Jan 2014 #207

Maybe Obama lied. Just sayin'. blkmusclmachine Jan 2014 #158

Social Security has nothing, absolutely nothing to do with the debt or the deficit MiniMe Jan 2014 #20

Is THIS too much to expect from a Democratic President? bvar22 Jan 2014 #50

'Social Security has nothing, absolutely nothing to do with the debt or the deficit.." blkmusclmachine Jan 2014 #159

once again the far left are standing in the way of entitlement reform Douglas Carpenter Jan 2014 #23

+8,749 Scuba Jan 2014 #26

Evidently it is their own elections that concern them, not the plight of those depending on SS Fumesucker Jan 2014 #27

They SHOULD be concerned about this if nothing else... Demo_Chris Jan 2014 #60

This is it!!! Here it comes!!! Any second!!! JoePhilly Jan 2014 #28

About as often as the apologists. hobbit709 Jan 2014 #29

Its not going to happen. JoePhilly Jan 2014 #31

its a topic ta any liberal or progressive SHOULD freak out about bowens43 Jan 2014 #33

Crying wolf is not an intelligent political strategy. JoePhilly Jan 2014 #41

The only reason SS wasn't cut was because of the GOP, not Obama. Dawgs Jan 2014 #54

Please, remind me again ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2014 #61

so its ok to SS for the rest? DrDan Jan 2014 #78

I thought this was about income inequity ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2014 #85

its about cuts to Social Security DrDan Jan 2014 #103

I would agree ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2014 #106

I completely agree. This is just a standard DU freakout. ConservativeDemocrat Jan 2014 #127

The GOP would be happy to do it, don't think they wouldn't. A Simple Game Jan 2014 #171

Name one "negotiation" ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2014 #180

His proposal is at this link and it sure as hell is not what you claim it is.... Bluenorthwest Jan 2014 #188

But is all of it pre-conditioned on ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2014 #194

He keeps offering it because he really doesn't want it.... Demo_Chris Jan 2014 #64

The GOP saved Social Security from Obama! Cali_Democrat Jan 2014 #114

Why do you defend "crying wolf" by forwarding this proposal over and over then? TheKentuckian Jan 2014 #229

Isn't that the point of the article posted? That Democrats are trying to make sure SomethingFishy Jan 2014 #48

I like the word "plead" in the title ... sounds kinda desperate ... JoePhilly Jan 2014 #86

Well if he would just come out and say S.S. is off the table SomethingFishy Jan 2014 #94

I have not said anything about what such cuts would mean to me personally. JoePhilly Jan 2014 #98

So you want them to play games with peoples lives? SomethingFishy Jan 2014 #102

Since plead is in the title of the article what would you suggest? rpannier Jan 2014 #222

I'm simply pointing out how easy it is for the media to JoePhilly Jan 2014 #227

Okay. That's cool rpannier Jan 2014 #228

Regular freak outs have become superfreak outs. Whisp Jan 2014 #97

LOL ... super freaky!! JoePhilly Jan 2014 #100

If it isn't going to happen then stop the phony discussions and move on to the people's business TheKentuckian Jan 2014 #181

As a 60 something DU'er, my first inclination is to say something very rude. Warren Stupidity Jan 2014 #46

ya i feel the same way. madrchsod Jan 2014 #63

ahhh ... go for it ... I don't alert. JoePhilly Jan 2014 #66

your buddies do. Alerting is not a 1-1 relationship. Warren Stupidity Jan 2014 #72

My "buddies"? JoePhilly Jan 2014 #74

The blacklist is a tool created by the admins. Bluenorthwest Jan 2014 #190

How magnanimous of you Cali_Democrat Jan 2014 #112

01/11/14 12:00 PM EST G_j Jan 2014 #51

Whatever gets us to stop talking about the Christie scandal. JoePhilly Jan 2014 #67

Oh. now I understand.. G_j Jan 2014 #69

Na, the Hill is. JoePhilly Jan 2014 #73

Spot On. n/t 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2014 #153

Well ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2014 #57

Maybe some one will predict that he'll announce SS cuts in the SOTU speech. JoePhilly Jan 2014 #75

I wonder why ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2014 #80

And ... JoePhilly Jan 2014 #90

I have tried to explain the dynamic that is in play ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2014 #92

Correct ... if you read that article closely ... JoePhilly Jan 2014 #96

I don't believe it's even on the gop's actual agenda ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2014 #101

Here's a suggestion Oilwellian Jan 2014 #122

Really? ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2014 #144

That's the key to the whole thing. Truthfully, as one going on SS shortly, I'd be for that. Hoyt Jan 2014 #99

I wish folks would sit back and really look at the bind President Obama's 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2014 #104

Poor baby. Jakes Progress Jan 2014 #242

He is doing the job ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2014 #244

This time for sure!!... SidDithers Jan 2014 #235

It would be interesting to research all of the OPs JoePhilly Jan 2014 #237

So wait, they would be ok with screwing us if it wasn't going to cause them problems next fall? Warren Stupidity Jan 2014 #34

Agreed. We really need more progressives in the party lostincalifornia Jan 2014 #53

Well, ProSense Jan 2014 #35

It's his favorite thing Pro. Of course he will. nt Demo_Chris Jan 2014 #65

Geez, this is about them? ananda Jan 2014 #43

The first sentence is really telling. It is NOT because it will be so bad for all of us, but so that robinlynne Jan 2014 #45

Oh now they need the liberal base? What happened to their corporate 3rd way right leaning centrists? L0oniX Jan 2014 #52

if he loses the senate he might as well resign. madrchsod Jan 2014 #59

On the contrary, that will make his real objectives all the easier to accomplish FiveGoodMen Jan 2014 #84

+1. That's the REAL 11-Dimensional Chess. Most everyone is waking up to the fact that WE'VE BEEN blkmusclmachine Jan 2014 #162

Regarding Sen. Murphy's statement: whether or not the Rs make concessions... FlyByNight Jan 2014 #68

How do Cuts to SocSec fredamae Jan 2014 #79

Everybody knows that cuts to SS won't affect the budget one single whit. Even Obama knows it. blkmusclmachine Jan 2014 #163

olive branch to Rs? Deep13 Jan 2014 #82

In Washington DC, it's known as "bi-partisan theatre." blkmusclmachine Jan 2014 #164

an OLIVE BRANCH to Republicans??? grasswire Jan 2014 #83

Why can't Obama stand up against the pugs??? blkmusclmachine Jan 2014 #166

Why is this even an issue? KansDem Jan 2014 #87

Mr. Pres is thinking about his retirement. Phlem Jan 2014 #128

It's not about a difficult midterm election - it's about THE PEOPLE. polichick Jan 2014 #88

I don't understand the problem ladywnch Jan 2014 #93

Never worked before. And won't work now. But you knew that already. blkmusclmachine Jan 2014 #168

Unfortunately, .......yes, I know ladywnch Jan 2014 #258

Let's not forget that "Dems" - Prez and Congress - "borrowed" money from SS fund... polichick Jan 2014 #95

Yep. It's called theft. blkmusclmachine Jan 2014 #170

People who say they trust the President to negotiate the TPP for us should READ THIS! n/t hughee99 Jan 2014 #108

Completely ignoring the fact Egnever Jan 2014 #110

And yet the President himself calls the ACA 'Obamacare'. Bluenorthwest Jan 2014 #175

Here we go again. woo me with science Jan 2014 #111

We're well into our 15th round of SS cuts by the Obama Administration Cali_Democrat Jan 2014 #115

Yes, the President does seem to keep trying to put Social Security on the cutting block Maedhros Jan 2014 #137

The "Grand Betrayal" timed to cost DEMS the midterm election for 2014? Obama can then go farther to blkmusclmachine Jan 2014 #174

This keeps coming up, but no such thing seems to ever MineralMan Jan 2014 #113

It's only in Obama's 2014 Budget Proposal Oilwellian Jan 2014 #123

Recommend! KoKo Jan 2014 #126

We shall see. MineralMan Jan 2014 #130

Thank you. woo me with science Jan 2014 #257

Where's the logic in that? What reason do you suggest exists for making proposals which are not Bluenorthwest Jan 2014 #167

I do not know. I'm not a political MineralMan Jan 2014 #200

oops. Phlem Jan 2014 #186

Great pic Oilwellian Jan 2014 #125

Yeah, they want to save their asses. malthaussen Jan 2014 #135

he better think very hard rtracey Jan 2014 #139

How do we really know if he even CARES??? blkmusclmachine Jan 2014 #176

those stinking/stupid kibitzers need to sit down and shut up stupidicus Jan 2014 #140

Thank you. And what a dishonest, despicable Third Way talking point woo me with science Jan 2014 #142

Thank you for saying what needed to be said Bluenorthwest Jan 2014 #156

The Democratic Party has been hijacked. Broward Jan 2014 #160

Destroying this Country from the inside out. blkmusclmachine Jan 2014 #178

well said woo stupidicus Jan 2014 #210

Well said! nt Demo_Chris Jan 2014 #251

The senators are right. If you want liberal Democrats to stay home, just put that chained JDPriestly Jan 2014 #146

Nor will I. Demo_Chris Jan 2014 #250

Ha. Good luck with that. blkmusclmachine Jan 2014 #147

It is the fact that Chained CPI was actually PROPOSED that is the killer. djean111 Jan 2014 #155

Where did this even come from? Arkana Jan 2014 #169

He has not taken it out of his budget proposal Oilwellian Jan 2014 #193

It won't happen, but it would serve a lot of seniors right. gulliver Jan 2014 #191

I hope they are also planning to give back to me, some of the bread I paid into SS over a lifetime. meti57b Jan 2014 #196

Considering inflation, the lousy 1% cost of living increase they give to SS is pathetic. liberal_at_heart Jan 2014 #203

You don't give the Republicans a loaded gun Harmony Blue Jan 2014 #205

Obama is a terrible negotiator walkingman Jan 2014 #206

maybe he's doing this on purpose in response to the great sit-out of 2010 or maybe leftyohiolib Jan 2014 #209

Obama said he would not touch Social Security INdemo Jan 2014 #211

His benefactors would not be pleased should Obama listen to them. NorthCarolina Jan 2014 #212

What a choad. grahamhgreen Jan 2014 #213

Obama, your legacy isn't to do a deal with the repukes, it's to whip their ass on point Jan 2014 #214

Hell No... ReRe Jan 2014 #215

Where have Democrats been on this until now? merrily Jan 2014 #255

kick woo me with science Jan 2014 #256