General Discussion

pampango

(24,692 posts)

53. I agree that he should back out of it if the labor and environmental parts are not strong and

Wed Jan 15, 2014, 02:22 PM

Jan 2014

enforceable. I think he might back out or a little more face-saving way would be to just continue negotiations interminably like have happened in the WTO in recent years.

I think I know why he pushed it so hard. He views it as a positive way to put pressure on China. Romney wanted to label China a currency manipulator the first day he was in office (thankfully that never happened) and many on the right want the US to play real 'hard ball' with China.

Obama chose a different path of creating a 'high standards' agreement that would exclude China (at least until it reforms its labor and environmental laws) but include most other Pacific Asian and North/South American countries. Unfortunately it looks like the rest of the countries do not share his goals.

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Wikileaks has just published a draft of the enviromental chapter of the TPP: It's bad. [View all] cali Jan 2014 OP

kick, kick, kick and I will keep kicking it cali Jan 2014 #1

It is truly appalling and it certainly shows why it all had to be so 'secret' sabrina 1 Jan 2014 #91

Keep up the good work cali SamKnause Jan 2014 #2

thank you Sam. This is by far and away the most urgent issue cali Jan 2014 #3

Reply SamKnause Jan 2014 #8

seconded n/t BelgianMadCow Jan 2014 #116

THANK YOU Wikileaks lunasun Jan 2014 #4

Indeed. Big, big thanks to Wikileaks. cali Jan 2014 #7

Once again doing the heroic heavy lifting for We the People:-) grahamhgreen Jan 2014 #120

Selling out on the environment in order to sell out labor. Somehow that does not sound like the jwirr Jan 2014 #5

Well, it does sound like the ones after Carter. LiberalArkie Jan 2014 #55

Joint analysis of leaked chapter by Sierra Club, Natural Resources Defense Council and cali Jan 2014 #6

Kick bobduca Jan 2014 #9

the people I want to see comment are the members of the BOF cali Jan 2014 #11

you'd think with their North Korean-level capacity for cognitive dissonance they'd have no problems MisterP Jan 2014 #69

Obama has to know this is a huge mistake. Baitball Blogger Jan 2014 #10

I don't get it. cali Jan 2014 #13

All I can tell you cali, is that the man has a knack for turning things around Baitball Blogger Jan 2014 #20

K&R! G_j Jan 2014 #12

Nobody cares Savannahmann Jan 2014 #14

I was just thinking along the same sad lines cali Jan 2014 #15

Beyond depressing. 840high Jan 2014 #17

But ProSense Jan 2014 #19

which has nothing to do with this vital issue. cali Jan 2014 #23

The environment isn't the "vital issue"? n/t ProSense Jan 2014 #26

we're talking about the TPP and it's impact on the environment. cali Jan 2014 #27

The environment is A vital issue. And these releases show that sabrina 1 Jan 2014 #104

The TPP and Keystone TiberiusB Jan 2014 #109

Wow! NuclearDem Jan 2014 #30

+1. good response. pretty weird response. cali Jan 2014 #32

Astute! n/t ProSense Jan 2014 #34

a good summation of your post- alas. cali Jan 2014 #37

I won't put that person on ignore, ronnie624 Jan 2014 #126

We are all supposed to pretend they are a serious poster bobduca Jan 2014 #130

The Schweitzer article is nearly 2 years old, and he's no longer governor hatrack Jan 2014 #119

+1. jsr Jan 2014 #28

There are a large contingent of Democratic voters Maedhros Jan 2014 #33

They do care about them. To the extent they profit from them. raouldukelives Jan 2014 #95

nailed it frylock Jan 2014 #58

+ a gazillion. nt Mojorabbit Jan 2014 #73

You summed it up. But in the real world, away from political forums, where sabrina 1 Jan 2014 #106

I care :-) grahamhgreen Jan 2014 #121

kick 840high Jan 2014 #16

This message was self-deleted by its author ProSense Jan 2014 #18

Kicked and recced. cinnabonbon Jan 2014 #21

"The report indicates that the United States has been pushing for tough environmental provisions, pampango Jan 2014 #22

The U.S. gave in to Peru etc. cali Jan 2014 #25

Your post was that the US "could be selling out environmental protections in order to cement" a deal pampango Jan 2014 #29

the draft was written on November 24th- the last day of the last talks cali Jan 2014 #31

"pretty clear that the USTR will give in to just about anything in order to ink this "trade" deal" pampango Jan 2014 #35

no, it's in the evidence and the analysis from organizations like cali Jan 2014 #36

Why are tough environmental provisions still part of the draft agreement if every other country pampango Jan 2014 #38

those provisions are window dressing. they are meaningless. cali Jan 2014 #40

I would agree that allowing member countries to use national sovereignty to resist compliance is bad pampango Jan 2014 #43

this is a bad deal in so very many ways. This is just the latest installment confirming that cali Jan 2014 #47

I agree that he should back out of it if the labor and environmental parts are not strong and pampango Jan 2014 #53

I would LOVE to see him find a face saving way to back out of this cali Jan 2014 #54

Can you defend THIS? bvar22 Jan 2014 #94

... bobduca Jan 2014 #105

No. As I have often posted, environmental standards should not be voluntary. National sovereigty pampango Jan 2014 #117

"Obama MAY have fought hard" ??!! LOL bvar22 Jan 2014 #122

Hey, I'm just quoting the report released by Wikileaks. pampango Jan 2014 #123

They don't share the goals for one reason. joshcryer Jan 2014 #113

+1000 NealK Jan 2014 #107

Bullshit, they are an intellectual property protection. joshcryer Jan 2014 #112

Obama's only stalling in hopes of getting approval for fast track authority. Divernan Jan 2014 #44

It's difficult to look at the evidence and not come to that conclusion cali Jan 2014 #45

So this draft is for show only (even though it was secret and only revealed by Wikileaks) and pampango Jan 2014 #50

pampango, the US has a LOT to gain by pressing for enviromental standards. joshcryer Jan 2014 #111

West Virginia gave us a fresh view dickthegrouch Jan 2014 #24

What a surprise. nt Zorra Jan 2014 #39

Sickening dorkzilla Jan 2014 #41

Obama proposal rolls back environmental protections; hits new low in selling out! Divernan Jan 2014 #42

K & R !!! WillyT Jan 2014 #46

Kick.... daleanime Jan 2014 #48

I hear you. well, thanks for posting in this thread cali Jan 2014 #49

I hear ya..... daleanime Jan 2014 #52

K & R historylovr Jan 2014 #51

K&R silverweb Jan 2014 #56

k and r.. xiamiam Jan 2014 #57

*sigh* K&R nt laundry_queen Jan 2014 #59

This is fucking disgusting. bunnies Jan 2014 #60

"And it pisses me off to no end that I voted for the man in charge of this bullshit." pampango Jan 2014 #65

Damn right he's still the man in charge. bunnies Jan 2014 #68

He's the man in charge of the US. He's not in charge of Australia or Canada or any of the others. pampango Jan 2014 #71

I get that he pushed... bunnies Jan 2014 #76

"Threaten to walk and then see what happens... just don't give in and move on." Great idea! pampango Jan 2014 #79

Do you know that this "thing", the tpp... bunnies Jan 2014 #81

It does not do anything yet. There is not a final, much less agreed to, draft of it. pampango Jan 2014 #82

the wisdom to walk away is exactly what he needs. bunnies Jan 2014 #83

you're hanging on to that like it's a life raft cali Jan 2014 #74

Indeed I am. And I must say it is a damn good life raft. The OP is about the environmental chapter pampango Jan 2014 #77

it doesn't seem as if the admin has rejected the draft cali Jan 2014 #78

They may not have rejected it. I don't know. But they have not accepted it either as far as we know. pampango Jan 2014 #80

the occult TPP is fab for Corporations, toxic for human beings Berlum Jan 2014 #61

KR El_Johns Jan 2014 #62

K&R. thank dog for Wiki. magical thyme Jan 2014 #63

for sure. now if only the MSM would stop fucking hiding this and the TPIP cali Jan 2014 #64

We are so fucked. City Lights Jan 2014 #66

The deranged Assange/WL haters should be along soon to spew bile whatchamacallit Jan 2014 #67

nah, they largely stay out of threads about the TPP cali Jan 2014 #70

You know them by their absence. They will not speak to the TPP. Conservatives the lot, rhett o rick Jan 2014 #118

Sounds like every other trade deal The2ndWheel Jan 2014 #72

actually, it's worse than NAFTA or CAFTA cali Jan 2014 #75

And every international agreement is increasingly non-binding The2ndWheel Jan 2014 #86

This message was self-deleted by its author pa28 Jan 2014 #85

Thank God for Wikileaks...this is just fucking nuts how irresponsible it is. No one Jefferson23 Jan 2014 #84

kr Norrin Radd Jan 2014 #87

TPP is TERRIBLE for the planet & 99% of its people; & that's why they're hiding it from public view! blkmusclmachine Jan 2014 #88

Tell your friends, family and acquaintances that the TPP is a job killing agreement. Enthusiast Jan 2014 #89

K&R Titonwan Jan 2014 #90

Some direct quotes from the draft agreement released by WikiLeaks: bvar22 Jan 2014 #92

resistance to voluntary adoption is futile bobduca Jan 2014 #108

It is when the west owns renewable energy intellectual property. joshcryer Jan 2014 #115

HAHA! That's totally superceded by the Intellectual Property Chapter. joshcryer Jan 2014 #114

What "facts" don't I have straight? bvar22 Jan 2014 #124

the IP chapter is on that page joshcryer Jan 2014 #127

Bullshit. bvar22 Jan 2014 #128

countries will be BEHOLDEN under TPP joshcryer Jan 2014 #129

Odd that Wikileaks couldn't spell Environment dipsydoodle Jan 2014 #93

Damn English and their silent consonants. adirondacker Jan 2014 #102

K & R. dchill Jan 2014 #96

The Oligarchs, Corporations And Banks Own And Control The Politicians That Own And Control Us cantbeserious Jan 2014 #97

k&r nt steve2470 Jan 2014 #98

This just makes me sick! We are acting like there is no tomorrow, and because of that Dustlawyer Jan 2014 #99

K & fucking r! n/t wildbilln864 Jan 2014 #100

k and r--and happy birthday to wiki online niyad Jan 2014 #101

k/r marmar Jan 2014 #103

K&R. This is what's important, not that loser from Jersey. anti partisan Jan 2014 #110

Kick Hun Joro Jan 2014 #125