General Discussion

LisaL

(47,409 posts)

43. Cardiac dead wouldn't be able to "incubate" a fetus.

Reply to magical thyme (Reply #38)

Wed Jan 15, 2014, 04:47 PM

Jan 2014

So how is it the same?

Edit history

Please sign in to view edit histories.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

170 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

There's a brain-dead corpse whose family is being forced [View all] malaise Jan 2014 OP

Does insurance cover health care costs for dead people? peace13 Jan 2014 #1

The woman is dead. The fetus apparently isn't. LisaL Jan 2014 #4

They do not know if the fetus is any more alive than the woman. uppityperson Jan 2014 #13

If it isn't alive, then there is nobody to support on life support. LisaL Jan 2014 #17

And that is the problem. They didn't unplug anyone from mechanical support. uppityperson Jan 2014 #20

They don't know if the fetus is alive or not. jeff47 Jan 2014 #27

You never heard of women whose fetus died in utero? LisaL Jan 2014 #46

No, at the moment they do not know if the fetus is alive or not. jeff47 Jan 2014 #58

It's at 21 weeks gestation. LisaL Jan 2014 #66

Their mothers were not dead. They were not deprived of oxygen for an hour. (nt) jeff47 Jan 2014 #70

Micropreemies are likely to be severely damaged due to brain bleeds and the like Hekate Jan 2014 #72

21 weeks now...it was only 14 weeks when this travesty of human rights began.... Drew Richards Jan 2014 #92

Those few that survive are devastatingly disabled. ALWAYS. kestrel91316 Jan 2014 #98

Thanks Kestrel, but that particular poster has an agenda and is not listening. Hekate Jan 2014 #106

that poster wanted to keep Terri Schiavo on life support too. CreekDog Jan 2014 #164

Apparently, there are enlightenment Jan 2014 #144

But nobody wants this particular fetus to be removed at 21 weeks. LisaL Jan 2014 #153

Why do you continue saying fetus is alive? Proof of that? And is it ethical to go against what uppityperson Jan 2014 #154

There is no proof its dead. LisaL Jan 2014 #157

There is no proof it is alive. Is it ethical to keep mechanical support on someone against their and uppityperson Jan 2014 #158

This message was self-deleted by its author CreekDog Jan 2014 #162

Well, well. That is indeed relevant. Hekate Jan 2014 #170

LisaL, enlightenment Jan 2014 #159

Not ones who were deprived of oxygen for well over an hour at 14 weeks. pnwmom Jan 2014 #137

Nonsense. A fetal heartbeat can be detected long before 21 weeks. WillowTree Jan 2014 #103

Fetal heartbeats can be detected in fetuses that fail to develop a brain at all. jeff47 Jan 2014 #111

If it doesn't have a brain, then it's not going to live. LisaL Jan 2014 #112

Nope. Which is why you can't use a heartbeat to prove the fetus is alive. jeff47 Jan 2014 #116

Nothing to suggest this woman was thinking about abortion. LisaL Jan 2014 #120

Except she did discuss when to "pull the plug" with her husband. jeff47 Jan 2014 #129

the very, very long list of men's rights posts you've compiled makes it not surprising CreekDog Jan 2014 #165

"Tests are done daily on the fetus, and results show a normal heart beat." hedgehog Jan 2014 #62

With a fetus, a heartbeat doesn't necessarily mean it's alive. jeff47 Jan 2014 #63

Well it sure doesn't mean it's dead. LisaL Jan 2014 #68

Because we should demand families pay jeff47 Jan 2014 #69

Yes or no? Is it ethical to force her to stay on mechanical support even though she and her family uppityperson Jan 2014 #82

Tests? Tests? Again there are not tests at 14 weeks and still none at 21 weeks...IT was deprived Drew Richards Jan 2014 #95

You state that there is no possibility of the fetus becoming a healthy child, hedgehog Jan 2014 #104

That is a strawman no starter...the fetus was only 14 weeks when this started and the plug Drew Richards Jan 2014 #107

24 weeks isn't a magic number in TX. LisaL Jan 2014 #119

I just finished reading the 2013 Texas abortion law before posting...abortion in Texas is LEGAL up Drew Richards Jan 2014 #126

I am afraid you are not up to date on TX abortion law. LisaL Jan 2014 #127

I see you are correct the supremes decided not to recind in a 5 4 decision...but again what Drew Richards Jan 2014 #139

When the husband found the woman, she had already turned blue. Her own father pnwmom Jan 2014 #136

The father of the woman said the oxygen deprivation was "well over" an hour. pnwmom Jan 2014 #135

The mother has a normal heart beat, too, and she's definitely dead. pnwmom Jan 2014 #133

If the fetus is dead then the woman can be unplugged. LisaL Jan 2014 #149

Is it ethical to force life support on someone who has said, whose family says, no? uppityperson Jan 2014 #151

The woman can and should be unplugged because SHE is dead. pnwmom Jan 2014 #155

The mother has a normal heart beat, too, and she's definitely dead. pnwmom Jan 2014 #132

The fetus isn't insured. jeff47 Jan 2014 #22

But using that logic, if she was 9 months pregnant but brain dead, insurance can refuse LisaL Jan 2014 #32

Yep, it can. jeff47 Jan 2014 #34

Well isn't it great. LisaL Jan 2014 #35

Realistically, the hospital would probably avoid billing for the c-section jeff47 Jan 2014 #36

I would think hospital would bill the insurance and insurance would have to pay to avoid the LisaL Jan 2014 #52

Insurance companies regularly kill people. I don't think they'd care. (nt) jeff47 Jan 2014 #53

Thats not how it works most of the time but yes they can refuse...insurance companies make Drew Richards Jan 2014 #99

I tried to add my son to my health insurance b4 he was born MissMillie Jan 2014 #30

The fetus is not a legal person -- a "life in being." The Stranger Jan 2014 #168

Nope. And she was declared dead, according to the lawsuit. n/t pnwmom Jan 2014 #130

I've been watching this and pretty much horrified. polly7 Jan 2014 #2

That's a logical question n/t malaise Jan 2014 #8

The uh, uh, ...let's call them people*... doing the forcing should pay. Solly Mack Jan 2014 #3

I know of a number of cases where families did want pregnancy to continue. LisaL Jan 2014 #5

Brain-dead is dead malaise Jan 2014 #7

The mother is dead. The fetus isn't. LisaL Jan 2014 #9

That's the families' business malaise Jan 2014 #10

If brain dead is dead, how is it the family's business? LisaL Jan 2014 #12

Is it ethical to keep her on mechanical support? She and her family said they didn't want it. Is it uppityperson Jan 2014 #40

Yes or no? Is it ethical to force her to stay on mechanical support even though she and her family uppityperson Jan 2014 #55

Did you miss this question? I know it can be confusing to keep the discussions straight. uppityperson Jan 2014 #59

If the family wishes to uphold her wishes, it is the family's business. wtf? uppityperson Jan 2014 #60

Are you really this dense or are you just baiting people to get your jolly's off. Drew Richards Jan 2014 #100

Hard to tell, isn't it? She's everywhere and incredibly persistent. nt Hekate Jan 2014 #105

Everywhere? And that's concerns you how? LisaL Jan 2014 #113

Try answering the points I made in #76--or anybody else's. Skip the canned speech; we've seen it... Hekate Jan 2014 #160

Persistent in never answering a question. uppityperson Jan 2014 #123

Why do you say the fetus isn't in the same state as the woman? Heart beats in both. uppityperson Jan 2014 #15

Did anybody verify that fetus is brain dead? No. LisaL Jan 2014 #18

Did anyone verify that the fetus has a functioning brain? No. Does anyone beyond you think uppityperson Jan 2014 #24

I have no clue what kind of health issues the fetus suffered (if any). LisaL Jan 2014 #33

Yet you claim "The fetus isn't" braindead. Since you have no clue, how can you claim that? uppityperson Jan 2014 #39

I said it isn't dead. LisaL Jan 2014 #42

What do you base "it doesn't appear to be dead" on? uppityperson Jan 2014 #45

It has a normal heart beat. LisaL Jan 2014 #48

You mean like the woman has a normal heart beat? uppityperson Jan 2014 #49

What evidence do you have this fetus isn't alive? LisaL Jan 2014 #51

You mean like the woman has a normal heart beat? uppityperson Jan 2014 #54

No we shouldn't. LisaL Jan 2014 #56

Should be assume all fetuses with a heartbeat are alive? uppityperson Jan 2014 #57

The fetus was at 21 (update: 14) weeks when the mother died... ljm2002 Jan 2014 #84

Actually, it was only 14 weeks. PeaceNikki Jan 2014 #87

Thank you for the correction... ljm2002 Jan 2014 #90

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ uppityperson Jan 2014 #97

++++++++++ Starry Messenger Jan 2014 #109

they were pulling the same stuff with Terry Schiavo CreekDog Jan 2014 #167

I did say the people doing the forcing, yes? And unless the dead woman doing the incubating agreed Solly Mack Jan 2014 #11

Family should pay? LisaL Jan 2014 #14

Damn. I didn't realize I'd have to run through bullshit today. Solly Mack Jan 2014 #21

Sorry. I guess you are just too smart for me. LisaL Jan 2014 #23

No one offers health insurance to fetuses. jeff47 Jan 2014 #25

Let me guess rbixby Jan 2014 #28

No idea. jeff47 Jan 2014 #31

But this is not one of them. n/t ljm2002 Jan 2014 #81

Duh who you think Drew Richards Jan 2014 #93

Never have I seen such a violation of a family's rights malaise Jan 2014 #6

Seriously. uppityperson Jan 2014 #16

Should the fetus come out impaired, I'm sure all those well intentioned *people Solly Mack Jan 2014 #19

All the while voting to shred the safety net for the disabled & impoverished among us. CrispyQ Jan 2014 #26

Exactly! But they'll count that forced birth as a 'moral' (coughcough) victory. Solly Mack Jan 2014 #29

and then walk away as the Dad is forced to care for an impaired child for life SoCalDem Jan 2014 #75

Yep. Solly Mack Jan 2014 #78

I wonder who is doing the forcing KT2000 Jan 2014 #71

The hospital claims it is only following the law and if that is the case Solly Mack Jan 2014 #73

That should be my relative malaise Jan 2014 #83

Downright morbid. Solly Mack Jan 2014 #86

I'm going to be sick KT2000 Jan 2014 #88

You're welcome. Solly Mack Jan 2014 #91

All this will be a walk in the park - if the fetus becomes viable but on being born is srican69 Jan 2014 #37

"brain-dead" is just as dead as "cardiac dead." just sayin'... magical thyme Jan 2014 #38

Cardiac dead wouldn't be able to "incubate" a fetus. LisaL Jan 2014 #43

This message was self-deleted by its author jeff47 Jan 2014 #64

Legally they are both dead. brain dead only can incubate a fetus with mechanical and other support. magical thyme Jan 2014 #65

Using that logic, it's perfectly fine to turn off life support from a full term pregnant woman. LisaL Jan 2014 #67

um... a full term baby can be removed and survive. viability is an important point in this. PeaceNikki Jan 2014 #74

Nonsense. What is your motivation in this continuing argument? Life begins at conception? Hekate Jan 2014 #76

Thank you and I am sorry. PeaceNikki Jan 2014 #77

This message was self-deleted by its author LisaL Jan 2014 #122

Whoosh. I am thinking you are a one handed typist. eom uppityperson Jan 2014 #124

The decision should always be made by the family, not the hospital. liberal_at_heart Jan 2014 #85

If the person is brain dead, the laws say hospital has a right to turn off life support. LisaL Jan 2014 #141

Is that ethical? uppityperson Jan 2014 #146

With a full term pregnant woman, or even a woman at 24 weeks, a baby can be delivered pnwmom Jan 2014 #134

It can be, but why? LisaL Jan 2014 #140

I don't think they should bother removing the fetus from the body. pnwmom Jan 2014 #156

then why are you proposing doing that? CreekDog Jan 2014 #166

Legally, I'm pretty confident you are WAY off TroglodyteScholar Jan 2014 #94

They just issued one for Jahi McMath. LisaL Jan 2014 #118

"the" medical facility? She's not in a hospital. uppityperson Jan 2014 #125

And? I don't know where she is, but she is somewhere attached to life support. LisaL Jan 2014 #128

" can't recall any stories of a Death Certificate being issued for someone who's still in the... uppityperson Jan 2014 #131

It was issued when she was still at the hospital. LisaL Jan 2014 #138

They didn't "just issue it". She HAS been moved. And, to be fair, lots of death certs are issued uppityperson Jan 2014 #142

She was still at the hospital when death certificate was issued. LisaL Jan 2014 #147

Exactly. They did "just issue it" like you wrote. Is it ethical to keep someone on mechanical suppor uppityperson Jan 2014 #148

Is it ethical to force life support on someone who has said, whose family says, no? uppityperson Jan 2014 #143

More than that malaise Jan 2014 #163

Wot? Wait you never heard of anyone signing a death certificate to have someone pop awake on Drew Richards Jan 2014 #121

Actually many death certs are issued to people who die in hospitals. uppityperson Jan 2014 #145

It's a sad situation. herding cats Jan 2014 #41

I thought the hospital was going to check the fetus this week? ryan_cats Jan 2014 #44

Yes, they were planning to do tests soon. LisaL Jan 2014 #47

Back in December, a local publication Cerridwen Jan 2014 #50

WAIT...I GOT AN IDEA. IF they wont declare her dead then technically shes alive and a patient Drew Richards Jan 2014 #108

Family argues a legally dead person is not a "patient", therefore statute does not apply stg81 Jan 2014 #61

And they are correct malaise Jan 2014 #89

A corpse incubating a fetus HockeyMom Jan 2014 #79

In US they can not. LisaL Jan 2014 #117

Not only that... ljm2002 Jan 2014 #80

The very second that child is delivered, the husband needs to file a wrongful birth lawsuit kestrel91316 Jan 2014 #96

I agree with you, but who would the defendant be? jmowreader Jan 2014 #110

The hospital. And the state of Texass. kestrel91316 Jan 2014 #152

Please stop with the dehumanizing language. Th1onein Jan 2014 #101

Her family insist that she is dead n/t malaise Jan 2014 #102

Yes, but I doubt her family is calling her a corpse. Th1onein Jan 2014 #115

Fact - every dead person is a corpse malaise Jan 2014 #161

No one is denying that fact. But when you're talking about a family member's loved one.... Th1onein Jan 2014 #169

Her family says she's dead. jeff47 Jan 2014 #114

She became "dehumanized" when she died. Barack_America Jan 2014 #150