All day long I have been fuming about this and I am glad that I waited to post it. I COULD BURN

[RainDog]

243. I agree

pop culture contains a lot of artistically worthless production. Like father like daughter, in the Mylie case, imo.

Since you seem to have misunderstood that my objection is to emotion-based rather than fact-based argument about porn and mass media (by tying those to this incidence of domestic violence), the point was not to say "be like Mylie." The point was Mylie isn't worth anyone's time or attention. However, if people waste their money on her product, she'll continue to sell it. No one is forcing people to buy her product.

She didn't invent twerking, she co-opted it from Louisiana culture (where it began.)

I don't watch or listen to things that I find offensive for one reason or another. When my sons were younger we critiqued mass culture so that they could develop the critical thinking skills to recognize the manipulation - sex sells beer, etc. Girls gone wild commercials - wow, aren't the parents of that guy proud of him asking girls to flash people - and aren't those girls ridiculous for wanting to participate in that same thing.

The reason I even bothered to mention any of this was because of this comment from above:

And if some idiot dares post snivel about how it has nothing to do

with violent porn I will bite their head off. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENS WHEN VIOLENCE AGAINST WOMEN IS SO VERY NORMALIZED?????? This is what happens and more.

So, because someone wants to believe something, no one is allowed to dispute this claim. As you have noted before, if someone posts here, they will find other opinions. I previously tried to explain to this poster that I was as concerned about girls who are locked into work ghettos in China so that Americans can have cheap computer products and Apple execs, etc. can have big salaries. I said something to the effect that we often don't note the things we do that exploit others.

She said she didn't exploit others. All of us do who buy computer products made in horrific conditions in which girls from China are forced to move away from their families and are locked into ghettos at night so they won't try to escape. The point I was trying to make was about "othering" offense. If someone else does it - hair on fire. If you (not you personally, all of us "you&quot do... not a peep.

It is offensive to me to see a incident of horrific abuse used as a way to tell people an opinion not based in fact cannot be contradicted with fact.

That sort of mode of being is what liberals criticize conservatives for - that expression that you're allowed your own opinion but not your own facts. Throughout this thread I have posted facts about domestic abuse but not a word in support of Mylie Cyrus. That anyone could find "I support Mylie Cyrus" as the takeaway from what I have posted here - well, I can't control how others view things, I can only offer evidence that such an opinion is in error.

However, instead of engaging in this sort of back and forth here - wouldn't it be GREAT if Steve could use his program to talk about domestic violence because of the horrific nature of this incident? I think it would. The sad fact of journalism and mass culture is that if it bleeds it leads - i.e. it's what viewers will read.

People here could use the resources available through this site to do something effective - education about and attention to a problem, along with the issue of funding for domestic violence programs -

That, to me, is a better use of energy and a more effective way to combat domestic violence - far better than focusing on a pop culture personality and porn - which, again, are simply part of a greater problem.

And, fwiw, I do not consider myself part of any cohort, but I do align myself here with the "fact-based" liberals who are interested in ways to make changes. I also spoke here about what I see as one of the greatest sources of misunderstanding here - and that source is the value someone places upon appeals to emotion rather than appeals to reason.

To paraphrase a friend - if we heard Pat Robertson blaming homosexuality or jazz for hurricane Katrina, we would be appalled. We should be equally unwilling to make these sorts of emotion-based claims for our own opinions.

At least that's how I see it. But, because this situation is such a point of contention here, mostly I just ignore the issue on this forum and focus my energies on issues that I can talk about without having to defend my character among Democrats in order to do so.

This sort of thing reminds me of the Tipper Gore/Zappa moment regarding rap lyrics. Neither side was accurately represented in the media, but it certainly didn't help Democrats for voters to see Democrats siding with the sort of censorship, etc. that has been the hallmark of conservatism since.. forever.