General Discussion

MannyGoldstein

(34,589 posts) Thu Jan 16, 2014, 09:57 PM Jan 2014

121

I know, I suck. But a serious question: [View all]

General Clapper told a full-frontal lie to Congress and got caught. Even confessed ("the least untruthful thing I could say&quot . Since he was told he'd be asked that question at least a day prior, I can't see an excuse for it. And he could have simply not answered. But he sought to deceive.

People used to go to jail for lying to Congress. But nothing has happened to Clapper. Thus, I can only conclude that either his boss is OK with lying to Congress (and the rest of us), or that Clapper is actually the President's boss. The latter is too awful to contemplate, so let's assume the former.

If Obama is fine with lying, then why should we ever believe anything he says about the Spy On Everyone program? If he says at the SOTU that he's reining Spy On Everyone in, then how can we believe it? And is the embrace of lying only for intelligence matters, or across the board?

Ugh.

265 replies

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Highlight:

I know, I suck. But a serious question: [View all] MannyGoldstein Jan 2014 OP

IF he were caught in a Lie before Congress...you can BET the Republican run House would VanillaRhapsody Jan 2014 #1

Or on just about every news source there is. Savannahmann Jan 2014 #19

Do they outright say "he lied"? VanillaRhapsody Jan 2014 #28

Yes. Savannahmann Jan 2014 #76

thats a quote...someone said that... VanillaRhapsody Jan 2014 #77

Complicated? Savannahmann Jan 2014 #80

Yes...complicated...you know....not exactly black and white...kinda grey... VanillaRhapsody Jan 2014 #103

Apparently you haven't been paying attention. Savannahmann Jan 2014 #136

LOL "If you keep this up, they are liable to elect you to congress." hueymahl Jan 2014 #233

Right. GeorgeGist Jan 2014 #161

HE admitted lying. There is no doubt that he lied. He has a boss, he should be fired, but he hasn't sabrina 1 Jan 2014 #91

Why did the Senate give Clapper a pass? MrMickeysMom Jan 2014 #154

And here is a rebuttal...from your darling...The Guardian VanillaRhapsody Jan 2014 #30

So Clapper's own lawyer says he didn't lie? MannyGoldstein Jan 2014 #42

Well I disputed the non-disputed claim! VanillaRhapsody Jan 2014 #49

It's not in dispute that he lied to congress. DisgustipatedinCA Jan 2014 #20

Its not? They why isn't he up on charges for lying to a Republican Congress? VanillaRhapsody Jan 2014 #27

I'm not in Congress, so I don't know why. This changes nothing. DisgustipatedinCA Jan 2014 #29

IF YOUR contention were absolutely true as you contend....then he would VanillaRhapsody Jan 2014 #33

If the issue would harm the military and not the civil government, the Republicans would allow JDPriestly Jan 2014 #51

To paint Obama...they would stop at NOTHING and you know it... VanillaRhapsody Jan 2014 #52

Except they did. Marr Jan 2014 #61

I KNOW what Republicans would do...and so do you! VanillaRhapsody Jan 2014 #62

Apparently you don't-- because they didn't. Marr Jan 2014 #67

Apparently I do..."undisputed" is Malarkey! VanillaRhapsody Jan 2014 #71

Clapper IS a Republican. Maedhros Jan 2014 #87

What does that have to do with the price of tea in China....do YOU seriously think VanillaRhapsody Jan 2014 #88

The Republican Party, like YOU, approves of the ubiquitous, pervasive surveillance state. Maedhros Jan 2014 #97

Where did it say I "approved"? Kindly keep your words out of my mouth VanillaRhapsody Jan 2014 #101

The only posts I ever see from you are bashing critics of either the NSA or drone murder. Maedhros Jan 2014 #131

You shut that persona down with truth bobduca Jan 2014 #204

That cut to the heart of the matter. Octafish Jan 2014 #208

Then clear it up for us. Do you support Clapper the Republican? rhett o rick Jan 2014 #132

Of for gawdsake! The man knew the truth yet replied in what he says was "the least untruthful" way. delrem Jan 2014 #135

Are you really being honest with this? lark Jan 2014 #252

That is the question of the OP. merrily Jan 2014 #107

Because Clapper is a Republican. Duh. Luminous Animal Jan 2014 #119

You follow a strange logic. He isnt up on charges for lying to a Republican Congress rhett o rick Jan 2014 #124

Oh yes it is...(not in dispute my Aunt Fanny) VanillaRhapsody Jan 2014 #32

Oh my god. The spook's own lawyer said it wasn't a lie. DisgustipatedinCA Jan 2014 #36

So? You said "not disputed" and I said yes it is... VanillaRhapsody Jan 2014 #38

Come on...you should know better. DisgustipatedinCA Jan 2014 #45

NO you should know better...you think Republicans would miss THAT chance VanillaRhapsody Jan 2014 #48

Well, they didn't go after him. Marr Jan 2014 #57

No they didn't ...even though YOU say that he did... VanillaRhapsody Jan 2014 #58

It's pointless discussing anything with a person who insists on rejecting uncontested facts. /nt Marr Jan 2014 #63

Uncontested is baloney...thats what i am posting about... VanillaRhapsody Jan 2014 #66

Under penalties of perjury, Clapper told the Senate that he had lied to them. merrily Jan 2014 #142

Some people will never get it solarhydrocan Jan 2014 #90

that poster "gets it" its playing dumb in an effort to derail this thread. bobduca Jan 2014 #205

Only four senators - total - voted against Obama's nominee for US Trade Rep last year MannyGoldstein Jan 2014 #81

WTF does that have to do with the opportunity to smear Obama with a VanillaRhapsody Jan 2014 #82

I think they'll do whatever they're paid to do. MannyGoldstein Jan 2014 #83

So? Undisputed is the charge here....and if THAT were the case... VanillaRhapsody Jan 2014 #84

Yes. Undisputed by all but the staff attorney. DisgustipatedinCA Jan 2014 #184

NO as I said...if it WERE not in DISPUTE ....he would be up on charges... VanillaRhapsody Jan 2014 #211

No seriously they wouldnt. bobduca Jan 2014 #256

Yes seriously....they would... VanillaRhapsody Jan 2014 #259

Did he correct it privately? merrily Jan 2014 #122

Obviously not-- and that ought to make you examine some of your assumptions. Marr Jan 2014 #53

are you able to judge for yourself? Enrique Jan 2014 #150

This question will agitate, Manny. 1000words Jan 2014 #2

excellent questions.... mike_c Jan 2014 #3

Who can say for sure that Obama is willing to take on the NSA. ... spin Jan 2014 #6

why would you ever believe the government when it talks about its spy program? nt geek tragedy Jan 2014 #4

What aren't we "fine" with anymore? Except for poverty of course. Egalitarian Thug Jan 2014 #5

There was no answer Clapper could give that was legal. jeff47 Jan 2014 #7

Then he shouldn't have shown up. nt MannyGoldstein Jan 2014 #9

Also illegal. jeff47 Jan 2014 #10

The White House could go to court MannyGoldstein Jan 2014 #13

Yes, quashing Congressional subpoenas is so much more open. jeff47 Jan 2014 #16

Asking a question is breaking the law? MannyGoldstein Jan 2014 #17

When you know the answer to the question reveals classified information jeff47 Jan 2014 #18

Nice gymnastics, but the motherfucker lied to congress. DisgustipatedinCA Jan 2014 #21

Your desire for revenge doesn't change the law. jeff47 Jan 2014 #23

He lied to Congress. DisgustipatedinCA Jan 2014 #25

Yes, he was compelled to do so. jeff47 Jan 2014 #26

'Im not able to answer that question for national security reasons, but... DisgustipatedinCA Jan 2014 #31

And now he gets the handcuffs. jeff47 Jan 2014 #34

Nope. No handcuffs for refusing to tell a lie. You're right that this sort of non-answer DisgustipatedinCA Jan 2014 #41

Yes, handcuffs for refusing to tell a lie. jeff47 Jan 2014 #46

No Jeff. Just no. tkmorris Jan 2014 #54

They are asked broad questions. jeff47 Jan 2014 #65

If this represents your filter for determining truthfulness DisgustipatedinCA Jan 2014 #185

Joe Strummer would be in his glory today MannyGoldstein Jan 2014 #68

Nailed it. ctsnowman Jan 2014 #254

No, he had a choice between an honest answer that did not reveal classified info and lying. merrily Jan 2014 #130

It seems that these choie Jan 2014 #89

To make matters worse, he IS shrubs posse. TheKentuckian Jan 2014 #109

Exactly! ctsnowman Jan 2014 #255

As I explained before, the normal, legal thing to do in that situation is to ask to discuss the matt JDPriestly Jan 2014 #102

Yes, team Clapper fucked up. jeff47 Jan 2014 #108

Fucked up, my ass. merrily Jan 2014 #139

There is a chance that the Supreme Court will rule that the facts in any case involving the metadata JDPriestly Jan 2014 #147

BUT Clapper didn't get that question in advance did he? VanillaRhapsody Jan 2014 #35

"I sent the question to Director Clapper�s office a day in advance" MannyGoldstein Jan 2014 #39

but he didn't get it! VanillaRhapsody Jan 2014 #50

Clapper admitted "Least Untruthful" answer, not "Oops, I fucked up" MannyGoldstein Jan 2014 #56

Whether or not he did depends on who you want to believe. jeff47 Jan 2014 #40

Clapper said he lied. merrily Jan 2014 #111

And that doesn't change the problem. jeff47 Jan 2014 #116

Then don't claim he didn't lie. But you post is incorrect anyway. merrily Jan 2014 #118

I did not claim he didn't lie. jeff47 Jan 2014 #243

Given the two choices, I would believe the Democratic Senator Maedhros Jan 2014 #241

Who the hell is Litt? This is not Clapper explaining himself. merrily Jan 2014 #137

No words uttered by a congressperson in chambers is illegal. joshcryer Jan 2014 #151

Not necessarily. Wyden could have known the correct answer to his question merrily Jan 2014 #236

Sure there was. Hissyspit Jan 2014 #11

Then name it. (nt) jeff47 Jan 2014 #12

He could have immediately asked that the discussion continue in a closed session. JDPriestly Jan 2014 #55

Already covered that. jeff47 Jan 2014 #60

Then he broke the law, but is above the law, so it's OK??? grahamhgreen Jan 2014 #104

No, it's basically a perjury trap. jeff47 Jan 2014 #115

For all realistic purposes, it was Wyden who revealed classified information during that hearing. merrily Jan 2014 #138

Then we should let a court decide as you suggest in your answer, otherwise, grahamhgreen Jan 2014 #189

Your alternatives have already been well covered. jeff47 Jan 2014 #217

It's like saying if a bank robber answers no to a robbery he committed that he should not be grahamhgreen Jan 2014 #265

Then he should have said that the answer was classified. No lie there Luminous Animal Jan 2014 #121

Already covered that. It reveals classified jeff47 Jan 2014 #213

So you are rationalizing his lying. Interesting who all comes to his defense. nm rhett o rick Jan 2014 #125

No, I'm explaining why he can't be prosecuted for it. jeff47 Jan 2014 #214

You are trying to justify his lies. He later admitted he lied. How different is that rhett o rick Jan 2014 #227

Snowden lied when he broke the oath he signed. randome Jan 2014 #230

Good question. Do you think their lies are justifiable? nm rhett o rick Jan 2014 #232

I understand Clapper's lie better. randome Jan 2014 #244

Of course Clapper is part of the authoritarian power structure and Snowden is merely rhett o rick Jan 2014 #245

There are no violations of law or the Constitution with the metadata. randome Jan 2014 #246

Um... Snowden didn't trick his coworkers. Hissyspit Jan 2014 #257

Nonsense. former9thward Jan 2014 #197

So he didn't answer in the manner we would have expected. Big deal. randome Jan 2014 #202

It is exactly the same as "Yes". jeff47 Jan 2014 #215

Wyden is not God. former9thward Jan 2014 #224

Good point. merrily Jan 2014 #238

Do you have a link on this? merrily Jan 2014 #251

Third possibility: Clapper and Obama both work for the same boss. Scuba Jan 2014 #8

Or fourth possibility...Clapper didn't answer correctly....because he hadn't seen them VanillaRhapsody Jan 2014 #37

Poor old confused REPUBLICAN Clapper. Luminous Animal Jan 2014 #123

Wow, what lengths some go to to defend this conservative authoritarian that is the rhett o rick Jan 2014 #126

Yeah, that was pretty amazing, wasn't it? Scuba Jan 2014 #152

This one has clearly decided to shift from "DEFENSE" bobduca Jan 2014 #207

Gen Clapper was a Republican when he worked for Bush and he is still rhett o rick Jan 2014 #228

That has my vote. I say the Carlyle Group via Booz-Allen. nm rhett o rick Jan 2014 #128

He is silent on our government's lying/fabricating evidence trails to arrest Americans woo me with science Jan 2014 #14

Ugh. MannyGoldstein Jan 2014 #15

What we need is a ProSense Jan 2014 #93

I'd settle for more Change bobduca Jan 2014 #117

Too bad we didn't do-over Rehnquist court decision Dec 12, 2000 MrMickeysMom Jan 2014 #156

This message was self-deleted by its author Recursion Jan 2014 #22

Oh lordy....you certainly suck at civics! If Clapper lied to Congress, then the CONGRESS needs to msanthrope Jan 2014 #24

Remember the Outrageous! Outrageous! IRS scandal? MannyGoldstein Jan 2014 #43

The head of the IRS wasn't fired, Manny, except in FoxNoozland. He retired. So why didn't Wyden msanthrope Jan 2014 #47

No. Fired. MannyGoldstein Jan 2014 #59

Exactly, Manny, and thank you proving my point. Miller resigned and retired. Federal employees msanthrope Jan 2014 #64

He was asked to resign, he complied, and thus he retired. MannyGoldstein Jan 2014 #69

So then he wasn't fired, was he? You were wrong. nt msanthrope Jan 2014 #70

Utterly MannyGoldstein Jan 2014 #74

nice Vattel Jan 2014 #99

We must all frankly admit our mistakes MannyGoldstein Jan 2014 #110

Funny how you are pushing the IRS and Benghazi today... msanthrope Jan 2014 #166

First off, I was wrong about being wrong - I just looked it up. MannyGoldstein Jan 2014 #171

No...Fox News was upset that he wasn't fired...but allowed to retire as planned... msanthrope Jan 2014 #174

He was forced out of his post. Prematurely. MannyGoldstein Jan 2014 #175

Nonsense..... cite the federal reg that says there's a term limit to an Acting Director of the IRS. msanthrope Jan 2014 #179

I await your apology MannyGoldstein Jan 2014 #182

You are not getting one. I just made you prove my point that Miller was retiring, anyway, msanthrope Jan 2014 #212

Strange. I don't see the word "retire" in that document. MannyGoldstein Jan 2014 #261

If you don't understand, I can't help you. nt msanthrope Jan 2014 #263

The resignation was a joke, a sop for the public. merrily Jan 2014 #141

I know...his resignation and his retirement date were exactly the same, and msanthrope Jan 2014 #164

Gracious to the President, as he and the President were deceiving Americans merrily Jan 2014 #231

Who was deceived, but for Republicans? nt msanthrope Jan 2014 #235

huh? What does Republican or Democrat have to do with it? merrily Jan 2014 #237

Wyden asked that question purely for political capital. joshcryer Jan 2014 #153

Well, if progressive heroes like Wyden prefer to spend their political chits msanthrope Jan 2014 #180

Maybe he did ask for street cred F4lconF16 Jan 2014 #234

True, but that must mean the revalations aren't big. joshcryer Jan 2014 #260

"Why hasn't Ron Wyden tried to get Clapper held for contempt?" MrMickeysMom Jan 2014 #158

Or maybe Wyden realized that was a question he wasn't supposed to ask during the msanthrope Jan 2014 #165

Maybe Ron Wyden is "fine" with the lie too. Sure looks that way. JoePhilly Jan 2014 #176

Wyden was just fine with how things turned out. nt msanthrope Jan 2014 #181

Exactly ... and if Wyden is fine with it, why isn't Manny calling him out too? JoePhilly Jan 2014 #183

Then let's hear it. DisgustipatedinCA Jan 2014 #187

I'm happy to ... JoePhilly Jan 2014 #192

Thanks for the straightforward answer. DisgustipatedinCA Jan 2014 #193

Do you agree ... JoePhilly Jan 2014 #196

r.e. the nevermind part: the OP mentioned that as a possibility, then pulled back. DisgustipatedinCA Jan 2014 #203

How does the NSA spy on Americans? By receiving copies of phone metadata? randome Jan 2014 #206

Bullshit. DisgustipatedinCA Jan 2014 #209

And ... JoePhilly Jan 2014 #218

You Better Believe It! nt msanthrope Jan 2014 #222

Frankly, it makes my Soul Itch. joshcryer Jan 2014 #262

Nailed it. nt msanthrope Jan 2014 #264

LOL !!! WillyT Jan 2014 #44

!!! MrMickeysMom Jan 2014 #159

I personally think the NSA is more powerful than Congress and the President. KauaiK Jan 2014 #72

Like a bankster owned police agency commissined by banksters to keep the government Zorra Jan 2014 #95

I agree. Clapper lied because he can. Who is going to stop him? nm rhett o rick Jan 2014 #133

If none of the people we elect have power, it's time for a coup. merrily Jan 2014 #144

We're probably there... MrMickeysMom Jan 2014 #160

Knowledge is power. jsr Jan 2014 #146

Then defund them, burn their structures and data storage Demeter Jan 2014 #148

Ding! Doctor_J Jan 2014 #225

Imo - lying is across 840high Jan 2014 #73

You should demand he be impeached. JoePhilly Jan 2014 #75

I think mutual orchestrations for mutual political ends overlook lying. We CAN'T believe it. ancianita Jan 2014 #78

Manny, the President isn't involved with a charge of contempt of Congress or Agnosticsherbet Jan 2014 #79

"It is like they want to bitch about it but don't want to do anything about it." MrMickeysMom Jan 2014 #162

I think Congress doesn't give a damn if the guy lied. I think it is politics and power. Agnosticsherbet Jan 2014 #221

ODS... SidDithers Jan 2014 #85

Well I think Clapper is the president's boss. zeemike Jan 2014 #86

Clapper cannot fire Obama, or "kick him upstairs" or reassign him. merrily Jan 2014 #120

Well like I said, put it out of your mind. zeemike Jan 2014 #127

MUST. blkmusclmachine Jan 2014 #92

tigerram Tigerram Jan 2014 #94

My unserious answer is that the IRS guy lied also, at about the same merrily Jan 2014 #96

What did the IRS guy lie about? MannyGoldstein Jan 2014 #98

The not for profit flap. IIRC, he was acting head when he testified. merrily Jan 2014 #100

I don't remember the lying part MannyGoldstein Jan 2014 #105

I don't think his retirement was sudden. merrily Jan 2014 #113

Here's the first link I found after a quick search" merrily Jan 2014 #106

Is Clapper a Cretan perchance? Fumesucker Jan 2014 #112

Or a cetacean? MannyGoldstein Jan 2014 #114

Obama is Clappers boss, so he could fire him. Clapper lied to to Congress so they neverforget Jan 2014 #129

Clapper works for the same boss as Obama. Obama cant fire him. nm rhett o rick Jan 2014 #134

Does Obama even want to fire him? merrily Jan 2014 #140

Boo! Pretzel_Warrior Jan 2014 #143

Dec. 18: Rand Paul slams James Clapper over NSA �lying� ucrdem Jan 2014 #145

if it was Benghazi, the GOP would be investigating right now Enrique Jan 2014 #155

The truth is the truth, and some of us follow where it leads DisgustipatedinCA Jan 2014 #188

The truth is that no one in Congress considers it 'lying' when intelligence secrets are involved. randome Jan 2014 #194

Randome, you're wrong. Ron Wyden is a member of congress, and he knows he was lied to. DisgustipatedinCA Jan 2014 #195

Wow. Lots of badgesniffers out tonite. AngryAmish Jan 2014 #149

You must be really worried that Obama will announce actual changes today. randome Jan 2014 #157

This is going to be ProSense Jan 2014 #170

I saw that. It won't be enough. Obama quashed Occupy and he is a slave to the NSA. randome Jan 2014 #178

There are those ProSense Jan 2014 #186

Trouble is - why believe that now? djean111 Jan 2014 #190

But that's too little too late treestar Jan 2014 #199

The concern is that Obama will tell us "the least untruthful" things that he wants to MannyGoldstein Jan 2014 #172

Fine. Don't trust anyone. Continue to be paranoid even when you get what you asked for. randome Jan 2014 #177

Your last sentence treestar Jan 2014 #200

That's why he wants people to ignore whatever the President says today. JoePhilly Jan 2014 #201

If I recall Shivering Jemmy Jan 2014 #163

This from the AP may signal a change Manny. Puglover Jan 2014 #167

Get a clue Manny. They are all fine with lying, that's what they do. nt bemildred Jan 2014 #168

You have an excellent argument, Manny. Enthusiast Jan 2014 #169

Jesus, look at the full meltdown in this thread. Capt. Obvious Jan 2014 #173

It made me LOL! Rex Jan 2014 #220

fuck you, Manny. You're the most popular sucker on the forum librechik Jan 2014 #191

Like four year olds interpret it, "lie" means say something I don't agree with treestar Jan 2014 #198

I figure Clapper's probably got the goods on everyone in Washington. Buns_of_Fire Jan 2014 #210

Not him personally, but the organization he is part of. Doctor_J Jan 2014 #226

Amazing performances by all the usual suspects. Carry on. Comrade Grumpy Jan 2014 #216

Wow you made all the authoritarians cry 'uncle'! Rex Jan 2014 #219

You don't suck Manny. You are great. Autumn Jan 2014 #223

Congress is in charge of busting people who lie to them. riqster Jan 2014 #229

If Congress chooses not to report the "crime", Progressive dog Jan 2014 #239

I don't know if this has already been posted, but, after the merrily Jan 2014 #240

Apparently, Clapper would go to jail if he had amended it. MannyGoldstein Jan 2014 #247

You mean if he amended it to Wyden and Wyden alone, as follows: merrily Jan 2014 #248

One persons "sorry spectacle of a thread" is another persons Autumn Jan 2014 #249

I'm not really sure that the matter of any of us "believing" what is said NorthCarolina Jan 2014 #242

Just a thought... davidthegnome Jan 2014 #250

A serious answer, Manny. ConservativeDemocrat Jan 2014 #253

I truly wish the President would tell us why the the NSA thing is so good and important. marble falls Jan 2014 #258