General Discussion

merrily

(45,251 posts)

189. Thank you for a very thoughtful and informative reply.

Sat Jan 18, 2014, 08:30 AM

Jan 2014

I am not sure you answered my question, though. It's true that most of the third (thirty third?) parties that already exist have problems, but so does the Democratic Party. As you say, the ability of a relatively small number of Democrats to change the Democratic Party from within is very limited at best.

So, let's say that same number, which is small in comparison to all Democrats, tries to change a much smaller party from within. Wouldn't that improve their chances? (frog in a small pond vs. frog in a huge pond).

Given electoral politics, I am not 100% sure that the additional party would have to be problem free. It would just have to look as though it could swing some critical purple counties. If it could do that, it could have impact.

At least it's exploring something different than the things that have not only not worked but that have, IMO, accelerated us on the road to perdition.

But, thanks again for an interesting and thoughtful answer.

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Why bother? They're all screwing us over. [View all] Armstead Jan 2014 OP

Excellent piece. Thank you. nt MannyGoldstein Jan 2014 #1

The best thing to do now ProSense Jan 2014 #2

Mocking Scorn bobduca Jan 2014 #3

OK ProSense Jan 2014 #5

ANYTHING NOT CENTRIST IS CRAP!1111 bobduca Jan 2014 #7

+1 area51 Jan 2014 #59

As usual, I have no idea of your meaning. Armstead Jan 2014 #4

Hey, ProSense Jan 2014 #6

Once again you atre overly enigmatic Armstead Jan 2014 #9

I have to say, this is good: ProSense Jan 2014 #8

hit the nail right on the head nt G_j Jan 2014 #12

That statement is spot on infoviro Jan 2014 #93

Guy balanced the budget. Octafish Jan 2014 #113

That statement about Bill Clinton is very true. Thanks for posting it, ProSense. JDPriestly Jan 2014 #174

Laughing smilies nothwithstanding... elzenmahn Jan 2014 #185

I am appalled at OP for not having faith in Elizabeth Warren treestar Jan 2014 #71

I have much faith in Warren and Bernie and others, but..... Armstead Jan 2014 #73

I agree with the first part MissDeeds Jan 2014 #120

Obama was in the club before he got the power or he never would have gotten the power. merrily Jan 2014 #132

We are only pretending to be a democracy. nm rhett o rick Jan 2014 #10

Yep. We've been fed many myths, including about democracy. merrily Jan 2014 #35

Ancient Athens is considered a democracy even though only about 20% of the population rhett o rick Jan 2014 #115

If I am understanding your post, I think merrily Jan 2014 #121

I was merely explaining that the Democracy in ancient Athens really only rhett o rick Jan 2014 #126

Either you did not read my prior replies or you did not get it. merrily Jan 2014 #128

I am agreeing with you. nm rhett o rick Jan 2014 #129

In that case, my apologies. merrily Jan 2014 #130

Elite Theory puts forth that elites always rule in every stage of life. rhett o rick Jan 2014 #152

Yes. merrily Jan 2014 #154

If we voted on every little thing. It would be even worse. eom Blanks Jan 2014 #117

HUGE K & R !!! - Thank You !!! WillyT Jan 2014 #11

Divided? Only in rhetoric. It's Kubuki Theater. Armstead Jan 2014 #13

What I Meant Was... That It Is Some Sort Of Political Selling Point For The Masses To Digest... WillyT Jan 2014 #14

Yuppers. Armstead Jan 2014 #16

The Democrats and Republicans act together like a socket wrench. Maedhros Jan 2014 #21

Very clever analogy...and sadly true Armstead Jan 2014 #23

Also A Good Metaphor... WillyT Jan 2014 #24

I see it differently. merrily Jan 2014 #37

Democrats should have told Clinton to go to hell on many occasions Armstead Jan 2014 #43

On top of that, there is lifelong party loyalty. merrily Jan 2014 #49

+1! CrispyQ Jan 2014 #110

TPP, Loss of Internet Neutrality, Keystone, etc. G_j Jan 2014 #15

I'm 61....I'm too old for this shit. That sounds defeatist but.... Armstead Jan 2014 #18

it's realistic G_j Jan 2014 #20

Yesterday I helped a woman who was carrying a bunbch of packages into the post office Armstead Jan 2014 #22

This cycle has been going on for longer than defacto7 Jan 2014 #29

To be blunt...The system is us....And we're a bunch of assholes. So the system is a giant asshole. Armstead Jan 2014 #36

Understood! defacto7 Jan 2014 #42

Sometimes, I absolutely agree that the system is us and that merrily Jan 2014 #134

just read lordsummerisle Jan 2014 #156

remember that woman in her 80s, who walked across country to raise awareness about merrily Jan 2014 #137

Wasn't that a time? struggle4progress Jan 2014 #17

Wish i could be more like Pete Seeger Armstead Jan 2014 #19

I think Lee Hayes may have written that song. But it does not matter: struggle4progress Jan 2014 #27

yeah, you read threads like this RobertEarl Jan 2014 #26

"The very moment we thought we were lost, the dungeon shook and the chains fell off" struggle4progress Jan 2014 #31

And I've been doing my part for 40 years, and thinbgs are worse...That makes ME puke Armstead Jan 2014 #33

Yeah RobertEarl Jan 2014 #38

I used to agree with that sentiment...and maybe will again Armstead Jan 2014 #41

MLK never got sick and tired of fighting treestar Jan 2014 #79

I'm no MLK....But I'm fairly certain in his private moments he got sick and tired. And if he... Armstead Jan 2014 #98

Fannie Lou Hamer struggle4progress Jan 2014 #103

I'm glad you're keeping your faith....I hope I can get mine back Armstead Jan 2014 #104

Ronnie Gilbert & Pete Seeger are still alive, amazingly enough! Manifestor_of_Light Jan 2014 #30

Ronnie has been a fantastic gift to us struggle4progress Jan 2014 #32

though, sadly, not Seeger's wife. He's still an activist, though. merrily Jan 2014 #136

And there have been much harder times than now treestar Jan 2014 #77

And they overcome our overcoming -- Sorry but I am just really tired of this bullshit Armstead Jan 2014 #81

I agree with you, Armstead. Blue_In_AK Jan 2014 #112

It Is Easy To Be Discouraged colsohlibgal Jan 2014 #25

We are at war. merrily Jan 2014 #28

Yeah, Numbers RobertEarl Jan 2014 #34

Threads like this....You sound like a broken record Armstead Jan 2014 #39

Now, now, don't go getting personal RobertEarl Jan 2014 #45

Educating about the current truth is demotivational...I wish it were otherwise Armstead Jan 2014 #46

the THREAD? hfojvt Jan 2014 #97

Au contraire.. sendero Jan 2014 #101

but we keep losing too hfojvt Jan 2014 #94

Numbers are not meaningless unless you think that the only thing merrily Jan 2014 #142

Or, a thread could make us determined to unify against them. merrily Jan 2014 #40

and threads like this defacto7 Jan 2014 #53

The system is what it is RobertEarl Jan 2014 #55

If you know how to manipulate the system to get what you want, then this must be merrily Jan 2014 #133

the 1% got rich from us. GeorgeGist Jan 2014 #116

I remember what was OWS supposed to get started... Amonester Jan 2014 #48

OWS did get a lot of things started, including legislation in California merrily Jan 2014 #54

I understand how you feel. Once you get how the whole system is rigged, you do want to give up sabrina 1 Jan 2014 #58

But the police in Europe are not militarized to the point we are here. truedelphi Jan 2014 #143

Yes; and the unions are stronger in Europe. They probably turn out people. merrily Jan 2014 #144

Rght now, I am into the truedelphi Jan 2014 #145

Let me short cut it. merrily Jan 2014 #151

So now what. Just keep fact checking, beat the propaganda, tell the truth and hope the votes go our ancianita Jan 2014 #44

My basic point in the Op is simply that I am frustrated as hell. Fuk 'em all. Armstead Jan 2014 #47

I have been trying to think of other kinds of things to do. merrily Jan 2014 #52

K&R Excellent. Do you prefer the red box or the blue box? Egalitarian Thug Jan 2014 #50

And they know we are powerless. In fact we are not. There are things that can be done but not openly Lint Head Jan 2014 #51

Rant On Brother Dogtired Jan 2014 #56

''....as stupid as Clinton or just as deceptively cunning...'' DeSwiss Jan 2014 #57

He knew. 12ZTR Jan 2014 #60

That's a big part of it...But we also have no choice sometimes. Catch 22 Armstead Jan 2014 #65

The current dismantling of a free and fair internet go west young man Jan 2014 #61

EXACTLY! And Obama should be pushing the FCC and Congress to fix it Armstead Jan 2014 #66

I'm pretty sure that he's THEIR Trojan Horse FiveGoodMen Jan 2014 #122

Millionaire Congressmen PuraVidaDreamin Jan 2014 #62

I hear you. mnhtnbb Jan 2014 #63

It sounds reasonable but I don't think they care about that any more either TheKentuckian Jan 2014 #64

If so, the oinly hope is that they'll collapse on thermselves Armstead Jan 2014 #68

with you 100% librechik Jan 2014 #67

Amen to all of it! LiberalEsto Jan 2014 #69

Life has its ups and downs treestar Jan 2014 #70

I know -- But it just cumulatively feels like it's going down faster than its going up Armstead Jan 2014 #74

Can you folks please give up trying to make the rest of us give up? great white snark Jan 2014 #72

I'm not trying to make you do anything. I'm just really pissed off and frustrated Armstead Jan 2014 #76

Why not give up and then NOT write about it. JoePhilly Jan 2014 #84

This is a discussion board....Venting and ranting is part of discussing Armstead Jan 2014 #86

Being pissed off is a personal experience. JoePhilly Jan 2014 #92

Nah...Nobody gives a shit what I think. And i'm not adviocating anything here Armstead Jan 2014 #100

Expect "or not". JoePhilly Jan 2014 #106

That is your personal opinion or assumption. I have a very different view of why merrily Jan 2014 #135

Why not PasadenaTrudy Jan 2014 #193

+10000000 treestar Jan 2014 #80

I hope you are not insuating something about motives Armstead Jan 2014 #91

SING IT!! SING IT!!! SING IT!!!! hfojvt Jan 2014 #99

He posted to get encouragement, not to discourage you. merrily Jan 2014 #140

You're doing exactly what they want you to do. jeff47 Jan 2014 #75

I'm not saying don't do anything -- I'm just fed up Armstead Jan 2014 #78

And the solution to that is to keep voting. Keep agitating. Keep pushing. jeff47 Jan 2014 #83

You're right -- I agree -- But I am just fuckiong fed up and have to vent Armstead Jan 2014 #85

I get through it by thinking about what we did get jeff47 Jan 2014 #90

Okay yeah...Don't mind me. I just hava gripe sometimes. Armstead Jan 2014 #96

We all do. I'm just talking about how I deal with them. jeff47 Jan 2014 #102

Bitchin on DU is probably healthier than some ways of dealing with it Armstead Jan 2014 #105

that is not what we got. That is your view of what we got. merrily Jan 2014 #139

Actually if you look at the original PNAC documents back in 97'... go west young man Jan 2014 #187

Good to know. All the more reason not to pretend Obama got us out of Iraq and that the merrily Jan 2014 #190

And Obama didn't fight for it. jeff47 Jan 2014 #196

One definition of insanity is to continue repeating the same behavior while merrily Jan 2014 #148

You only want a "different result" because you are only looking at the headlines. jeff47 Jan 2014 #195

Thank you for this rant! City Lights Jan 2014 #82

Why bother? Le Taz Hot Jan 2014 #87

You are correct and I agree with you...But i am still pissed off Armstead Jan 2014 #88

And goddess knows Le Taz Hot Jan 2014 #89

I exactly feel the same as you and reading LaTaz's remark hits home. snagglepuss Jan 2014 #109

Congratultions.. sendero Jan 2014 #95

imo there's no reason to bother on a national scale until enough people have had it... polichick Jan 2014 #107

Probably the best way to deal with it Armstead Jan 2014 #108

I agree that local politics is where we can be most effective, Blue_In_AK Jan 2014 #114

Read my sig line. CrispyQ Jan 2014 #111

We all feel that way, but for some reason I hold on to the old man imagery when it comes to parties. valerief Jan 2014 #118

I hate to say it but we get plenty of bulletts from Dems Armstead Jan 2014 #123

We get that from Repubs, too. nt valerief Jan 2014 #124

That's my point -- I want politicians I don't have to worry about any bullets coming from Armstead Jan 2014 #125

K&R Kurovski Jan 2014 #119

R = D = I when it comes to big $$$$$. Most in that game do not give a fuck about the RKP5637 Jan 2014 #127

K&R, Good post. Just don't give up. Not just yet............. wandy Jan 2014 #131

Obama gave the PTB the friendly soft spoken person of color needed truedelphi Jan 2014 #138

There are 33 or more national "third" parties already. merrily Jan 2014 #153

Let's see - First of all six years ago, we were about to truedelphi Jan 2014 #186

Thank you for a very thoughtful and informative reply. merrily Jan 2014 #189

IMO, TPP *IS* the last straw. Triana Jan 2014 #141

K&R Totally agree. We're fucked. Coming and going. trof Jan 2014 #146

All Republicans are overt corporate stooges. sulphurdunn Jan 2014 #147

I'm still voting in 2014, and 2016. Say whatever the hell you want but I've made my decision. nomorenomore08 Jan 2014 #149

Not everyone is certain about the "lesser" part. merrily Jan 2014 #155

They may be corporatists, by and large, but at least they aren't theocrats. nomorenomore08 Jan 2014 #157

Re-criminalizing gay sex would take a constitutional amendment, as would merrily Jan 2014 #158

I'm not saying the Democrats are great by a long shot. But I'll still vote for them on the federal nomorenomore08 Jan 2014 #160

Again, not everyone would agree that they are the best option. merrily Jan 2014 #162

They have every right to vote third party, write in a candidate, or not vote at all. nomorenomore08 Jan 2014 #163

I always vote. merrily Jan 2014 #164

Millions of left-leaning Dems and independents stayed home in 2010, and look what that got us. nomorenomore08 Jan 2014 #166

I've seen this discussed on another board, but I don't recall the details. merrily Jan 2014 #169

I understand that. But I don't know what else to do except throw up my fucking hands. nomorenomore08 Jan 2014 #172

Fair enough. Thank you. merrily Jan 2014 #191

I'm not tryin g to talk you out of that. Better a D than an R Armstead Jan 2014 #180

I have no disagreement with anything you said. And I would love Sanders or Warren for President nomorenomore08 Jan 2014 #183

It will have to start with local elections. Seattle just got it's first socialist city council liberal_at_heart Jan 2014 #150

It does not have to be either or. merrily Jan 2014 #159

I won't give up. I might lose, but I won't give up. But then...... socialist_n_TN Jan 2014 #161

Wow, I really couldn't agree more. Not Sure Jan 2014 #165

That's what frustrates me -- I can deal with slow progress. But we're going backward Armstead Jan 2014 #181

I liked your use of "higher versus lower nature" BelgianMadCow Jan 2014 #167

I remember you...and it's good to see you when you Come and Post... KoKo Jan 2014 #168

Welcome back Armstead. kentuck Jan 2014 #170

Well expressed, Armstead. pacalo Jan 2014 #171

I like Obama -- and Clinton too. I'm just tired of the type of leadership they represent. Armstead Jan 2014 #182

I agree they'd do a heck of a lot better if they fought for liberal principles. pacalo Jan 2014 #184

I Am Glad I have the Automated Claptraps on Ignore fascisthunter Jan 2014 #173

Agreed.. go west young man Jan 2014 #194

Oh, being screwed royally, alright. But it's a "bi-partisan" screwing. Feel better??? blkmusclmachine Jan 2014 #175

So glad to see you again, Armstead! And I totally feel the same way. scarletwoman Jan 2014 #176

Well said. K&R n/t OhioChick Jan 2014 #177

Nicely done. K&R n/t ChromeFoundry Jan 2014 #178

Well said.. russspeakeasy Jan 2014 #179

That sums up how I feel for the most part. K&R deutsey Jan 2014 #188

Ask yourself "Why do we depend on leaders in the first place?" johnlucas Jan 2014 #192