General Discussion

hunter

(40,705 posts)

29. Um...

Sat Jan 18, 2014, 07:26 PM

Jan 2014

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2013/feb/25/norwegian-prison-inmates-treated-like-people

I was never taught to appreciate punishment or respect authority that wasn't worth respecting.

Never, ever have I thought, "Oh, I better not do that because I might get punished!"

I don't accept punishment of any sort either, it just goes into the "shit happens" bin of my mind. I do things to avoid trouble with authority, I don't argue with asshole cops, etc., but it's not fear of punishment that keeps me from murdering, raping, or assaulting people, it's not fear of punishment that prevents me from stealing other people's stuff or any other crime you might think of.

Mostly I believe my own ethical system is more finely tuned than that enforced by our legal system, and I'm keenly aware of my own ethical lapses and strive not to repeat them.

Progress is not made by people who respect authority, it is made by people who question authority and resist unjust authority.

If punishment or threat of punishment deters you from any sort of behavior, that's just sad.

Life is much simpler when one understands why certain sorts of behavior are harmful, and for those reasons alone one avoids those harmful behaviors. It's easier to live by a few general ethical principles then it is to remember a bunch of specific rules that one must follow to avoid punishment.

Kids who grow up in authoritarian environments simply learn how to get away with stuff, and sometimes "getting away with stuff" becomes their ultimate thrill.

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I still don't get the logic of people supporting killing people for killing people... [View all] Tommy_Carcetti Jan 2014 OP

Never has made sense to me.... n/t hlthe2b Jan 2014 #1

I think it's revenge, pure and simple. nt raccoon Jan 2014 #2

It is because it does absolutely zero to thwart crime. nt Lex Jan 2014 #57

Some of the scenarios that have been put forward here sound like Sheldon Cooper Jan 2014 #3

or locking people up for locking people up or taking people's money for taking people's money? arely staircase Jan 2014 #4

It's irrevocable, though. redqueen Jan 2014 #7

true, and that is probably the most powerful argument against the DP imo arely staircase Jan 2014 #8

I agree. redqueen Jan 2014 #9

Thus my personal objection to capital punishment. Lizzie Poppet Jan 2014 #33

The intent of locking people up is to segregate them from society until they are no longer a threat Major Nikon Jan 2014 #13

incarceration serves more than one purpose arely staircase Jan 2014 #14

Punishment is part and parcel to removing the threat Major Nikon Jan 2014 #15

revenge may be arguably counter-productive but arely staircase Jan 2014 #16

The difference is between addressing the problem or the symptom of the problem Major Nikon Jan 2014 #17

I don't necessarily disagree with any of that. arely staircase Jan 2014 #20

I differentiate between revenge and punishment Major Nikon Jan 2014 #22

that may be were we are getting hung up arely staircase Jan 2014 #24

I don't see that as revenge Major Nikon Jan 2014 #26

ok arely staircase Jan 2014 #35

Perhaps the only point of contention is I see the DP as revenge rather than punishment Major Nikon Jan 2014 #37

correct, definitely arely staircase Jan 2014 #38

We lock people up and fine people for hundreds of reasons. morningfog Jan 2014 #46

logical and humane answer nt arely staircase Jan 2014 #49

Interesting point. ZombieHorde Jan 2014 #51

According to George Bush when asked that question by Bill O'Reilly: sabrina 1 Jan 2014 #5

Happy to be the 10th rec. redqueen Jan 2014 #6

It's an authoritarian thing. hunter Jan 2014 #10

wouldn't incarcerating kidnappers fall into that category? arely staircase Jan 2014 #11

There is nothing good about the U.S.A. prison system. hunter Jan 2014 #18

so no prisons at all then? arely staircase Jan 2014 #21

Are you for real? Donald Ian Rankin Jan 2014 #25

Um... hunter Jan 2014 #29

Prison does not deter crime. morningfog Jan 2014 #47

And when states have abolished the punitive/deterrent aspect of the legal system entirely? Donald Ian Rankin Jan 2014 #53

That says nothing on deterrence. morningfog Jan 2014 #54

This is either very stupid, or very disingenuous. Donald Ian Rankin Jan 2014 #12

There's another strong argument against the death penalty. pnwmom Jan 2014 #23

Is that unique to the DP, though? Donald Ian Rankin Jan 2014 #27

Yes, it is uniquely awful and uniquely permanent. pnwmom Jan 2014 #32

No, I think it's very ingenuous. Tommy_Carcetti Jan 2014 #41

For the same reason we prohibit vigilante imprisonment, of course. Donald Ian Rankin Jan 2014 #52

But those checks and balances of which you speak don't extend to the actual taking of lives. Tommy_Carcetti Jan 2014 #61

There is none ailsagirl Jan 2014 #19

Unfortunately, there are some people who can't, won't and don't play well with others Theodis Jan 2014 #28

I've no problem removing murderers, child rapists, torturers, and the sort from society... hunter Jan 2014 #31

Who here is arguing we don't need prisons? Tommy_Carcetti Jan 2014 #60

Post #18 There is nothing good about the U.S.A. prison system. Theodis Jan 2014 #71

What else are you supposed to do with a person that kills people for enjoyment? Rex Jan 2014 #30

People who prey on other people don't deserve to live dem in texas Jan 2014 #34

Agreed. Theodis Jan 2014 #40

So under this rationale, anyone responsible for a homicide should be given the death penalty? Tommy_Carcetti Jan 2014 #45

How is society not safe if that person is locked away for life? Tommy_Carcetti Jan 2014 #42

What purpose does life in prison serve? Theodis Jan 2014 #43

Those "benefits" are nominal, if best. Tommy_Carcetti Jan 2014 #44

No? Theodis Jan 2014 #50

Personality flaws, psychological issues, sometimes substance abuse issues. Tommy_Carcetti Jan 2014 #59

I am anti-life in prison. morningfog Jan 2014 #48

Life sentences may be a bargaining chip to rid us of the DP. Eleanors38 Jan 2014 #70

I think this way too Quayblue Jan 2014 #36

it's not that difficult to understand when you consider the horrible things these people do JI7 Jan 2014 #39

Sure.. sendero Jan 2014 #55

They both are death. Utterly permanent. Tommy_Carcetti Jan 2014 #62

Ah, so imprisoning Ariel Castro is just the same as what he did to his victims? Yo_Mama Jan 2014 #56

Incarceration serves an actual purpose, which you yourself recognize. Tommy_Carcetti Jan 2014 #58

There isn't any logic to it. sibelian Jan 2014 #63

It's more evidence of cowboy culture. Tommy_Carcetti Jan 2014 #64

I don't support the death penalty, but I don't see how the logic is hard to see. Silent3 Jan 2014 #65

Except aren't we taught that killing another person is never right unless.... Tommy_Carcetti Jan 2014 #67

"We" are taught lots of different things by different people Silent3 Jan 2014 #69

That's because it's not logical. RedCappedBandit Jan 2014 #66

My objection to capital punishment lies largely in the lack of a "do over" button. Lizzie Poppet Jan 2014 #68