General Discussion

Donald Ian Rankin

(13,598 posts)

53. And when states have abolished the punitive/deterrent aspect of the legal system entirely?

Sun Jan 19, 2014, 07:59 AM

Jan 2014

Obviously, there's no data there, because no-one's ever been mad enough to try it, but do you really think crime wouldn't go up?

What does and doesn't work to reduce crime is a complicated area of study.

One piece of data is that when the ACLU has won cases against prison overcrowding and large numbers of prisoners have been released in a particular area as a result, crime rates in those areas have gone up significantly compared to the national average.

http://pricetheory.uchicago.edu/levitt/Papers/LevittTheEffectOfPrison1996.pdf

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I still don't get the logic of people supporting killing people for killing people... [View all] Tommy_Carcetti Jan 2014 OP

Never has made sense to me.... n/t hlthe2b Jan 2014 #1

I think it's revenge, pure and simple. nt raccoon Jan 2014 #2

It is because it does absolutely zero to thwart crime. nt Lex Jan 2014 #57

Some of the scenarios that have been put forward here sound like Sheldon Cooper Jan 2014 #3

or locking people up for locking people up or taking people's money for taking people's money? arely staircase Jan 2014 #4

It's irrevocable, though. redqueen Jan 2014 #7

true, and that is probably the most powerful argument against the DP imo arely staircase Jan 2014 #8

I agree. redqueen Jan 2014 #9

Thus my personal objection to capital punishment. Lizzie Poppet Jan 2014 #33

The intent of locking people up is to segregate them from society until they are no longer a threat Major Nikon Jan 2014 #13

incarceration serves more than one purpose arely staircase Jan 2014 #14

Punishment is part and parcel to removing the threat Major Nikon Jan 2014 #15

revenge may be arguably counter-productive but arely staircase Jan 2014 #16

The difference is between addressing the problem or the symptom of the problem Major Nikon Jan 2014 #17

I don't necessarily disagree with any of that. arely staircase Jan 2014 #20

I differentiate between revenge and punishment Major Nikon Jan 2014 #22

that may be were we are getting hung up arely staircase Jan 2014 #24

I don't see that as revenge Major Nikon Jan 2014 #26

ok arely staircase Jan 2014 #35

Perhaps the only point of contention is I see the DP as revenge rather than punishment Major Nikon Jan 2014 #37

correct, definitely arely staircase Jan 2014 #38

We lock people up and fine people for hundreds of reasons. morningfog Jan 2014 #46

logical and humane answer nt arely staircase Jan 2014 #49

Interesting point. ZombieHorde Jan 2014 #51

According to George Bush when asked that question by Bill O'Reilly: sabrina 1 Jan 2014 #5

Happy to be the 10th rec. redqueen Jan 2014 #6

It's an authoritarian thing. hunter Jan 2014 #10

wouldn't incarcerating kidnappers fall into that category? arely staircase Jan 2014 #11

There is nothing good about the U.S.A. prison system. hunter Jan 2014 #18

so no prisons at all then? arely staircase Jan 2014 #21

Are you for real? Donald Ian Rankin Jan 2014 #25

Um... hunter Jan 2014 #29

Prison does not deter crime. morningfog Jan 2014 #47

And when states have abolished the punitive/deterrent aspect of the legal system entirely? Donald Ian Rankin Jan 2014 #53

That says nothing on deterrence. morningfog Jan 2014 #54

This is either very stupid, or very disingenuous. Donald Ian Rankin Jan 2014 #12

There's another strong argument against the death penalty. pnwmom Jan 2014 #23

Is that unique to the DP, though? Donald Ian Rankin Jan 2014 #27

Yes, it is uniquely awful and uniquely permanent. pnwmom Jan 2014 #32

No, I think it's very ingenuous. Tommy_Carcetti Jan 2014 #41

For the same reason we prohibit vigilante imprisonment, of course. Donald Ian Rankin Jan 2014 #52

But those checks and balances of which you speak don't extend to the actual taking of lives. Tommy_Carcetti Jan 2014 #61

There is none ailsagirl Jan 2014 #19

Unfortunately, there are some people who can't, won't and don't play well with others Theodis Jan 2014 #28

I've no problem removing murderers, child rapists, torturers, and the sort from society... hunter Jan 2014 #31

Who here is arguing we don't need prisons? Tommy_Carcetti Jan 2014 #60

Post #18 There is nothing good about the U.S.A. prison system. Theodis Jan 2014 #71

What else are you supposed to do with a person that kills people for enjoyment? Rex Jan 2014 #30

People who prey on other people don't deserve to live dem in texas Jan 2014 #34

Agreed. Theodis Jan 2014 #40

So under this rationale, anyone responsible for a homicide should be given the death penalty? Tommy_Carcetti Jan 2014 #45

How is society not safe if that person is locked away for life? Tommy_Carcetti Jan 2014 #42

What purpose does life in prison serve? Theodis Jan 2014 #43

Those "benefits" are nominal, if best. Tommy_Carcetti Jan 2014 #44

No? Theodis Jan 2014 #50

Personality flaws, psychological issues, sometimes substance abuse issues. Tommy_Carcetti Jan 2014 #59

I am anti-life in prison. morningfog Jan 2014 #48

Life sentences may be a bargaining chip to rid us of the DP. Eleanors38 Jan 2014 #70

I think this way too Quayblue Jan 2014 #36

it's not that difficult to understand when you consider the horrible things these people do JI7 Jan 2014 #39

Sure.. sendero Jan 2014 #55

They both are death. Utterly permanent. Tommy_Carcetti Jan 2014 #62

Ah, so imprisoning Ariel Castro is just the same as what he did to his victims? Yo_Mama Jan 2014 #56

Incarceration serves an actual purpose, which you yourself recognize. Tommy_Carcetti Jan 2014 #58

There isn't any logic to it. sibelian Jan 2014 #63

It's more evidence of cowboy culture. Tommy_Carcetti Jan 2014 #64

I don't support the death penalty, but I don't see how the logic is hard to see. Silent3 Jan 2014 #65

Except aren't we taught that killing another person is never right unless.... Tommy_Carcetti Jan 2014 #67

"We" are taught lots of different things by different people Silent3 Jan 2014 #69

That's because it's not logical. RedCappedBandit Jan 2014 #66

My objection to capital punishment lies largely in the lack of a "do over" button. Lizzie Poppet Jan 2014 #68