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In reply to the discussion: Reports: 3 boys assaulted girl before her suicide [View all]Squinch
(59,540 posts)161. Who makes Hollywood movies? Who makes Disney movies? By and large, it isn't women.
It is not women who are attracted to alpha males, it is men. The women I know IRL are not going for the alpha male.
There is a small subset of women who see men as a means to an end, who intentionally seek out men who have power. These women work hard to embody all the standards that men's competitive culture requires as fitting rewards for alpha men. These women are probably as numerous among women as alpha males are among men - a small fraction of the whole.
It is again men, not women, who legitimize the behavior of this small subset of women, by choosing these women when they "win the game" among men and become alpha men. The term "trophy wife" is instructive here. You get trophies after you have won the game.
And yes, there are men - I would argue men who have not achieved much maturity - who see the dynamic of the alpha male, who they have elected, getting the "hotter girl", who is hotter by standards that their relative immaturity has defined. They see these women they designated as "hot" going to the male they designated alpha male, and conclude that all women want an alpha male.
And yes, I would agree that this dynamic lowers the way these men view women, but their annoyance is really annoyance at the fact that they are not winning the alpha male sweepstakes among their fellow men.
Again, this does not originate with women. This originates with the election by men of the alpha male, and those men's definition of what constitutes women who are "hot" enough to be fitting rewards for that alpha male.
Women may be viewed in these circles as the motivating factor for the patriarchy, but those circles are kidding themselves, or are not looking logically at their own actions. If women were the motivating factor for the patriarchy, men would only compete over women. Women are the door prize in this kind of male competition. Power is the goal.
And yes, I totally agree: "This is the stereotype that boys are raised in."
Until the 1970s, girls were raised in a stereotype that said the only work they should aspire to was bearing children and cooking and waxing the floor. They were raised to think their bodies were for the benefit and use of others, and it was their fault when those bodies were abused. Their mothers and sisters were usually the most powerful conveyers of these messages.
Then women got their shit together and changed the stereotypes that women were raised in. Men, and a small subset of women - generally those who benefitted from the male hierarchy of power - fought back hard against the changes, and some continue to fight back hard to this day.
Men could not have instituted the changes to the stereotypes women were raised in. It would never have worked. It had to come from women.
If men are being raised in destructive stereotypes, which I believe they are, don't you think it's time that men got their shit together and stopped that? Redefine the qualities that men look for in a worthy leader, and redefine what men consider "hot" among women, and life for all of us will quickly get a lot better.
There is a small subset of women who see men as a means to an end, who intentionally seek out men who have power. These women work hard to embody all the standards that men's competitive culture requires as fitting rewards for alpha men. These women are probably as numerous among women as alpha males are among men - a small fraction of the whole.
It is again men, not women, who legitimize the behavior of this small subset of women, by choosing these women when they "win the game" among men and become alpha men. The term "trophy wife" is instructive here. You get trophies after you have won the game.
And yes, there are men - I would argue men who have not achieved much maturity - who see the dynamic of the alpha male, who they have elected, getting the "hotter girl", who is hotter by standards that their relative immaturity has defined. They see these women they designated as "hot" going to the male they designated alpha male, and conclude that all women want an alpha male.
And yes, I would agree that this dynamic lowers the way these men view women, but their annoyance is really annoyance at the fact that they are not winning the alpha male sweepstakes among their fellow men.
Again, this does not originate with women. This originates with the election by men of the alpha male, and those men's definition of what constitutes women who are "hot" enough to be fitting rewards for that alpha male.
Women may be viewed in these circles as the motivating factor for the patriarchy, but those circles are kidding themselves, or are not looking logically at their own actions. If women were the motivating factor for the patriarchy, men would only compete over women. Women are the door prize in this kind of male competition. Power is the goal.
And yes, I totally agree: "This is the stereotype that boys are raised in."
Until the 1970s, girls were raised in a stereotype that said the only work they should aspire to was bearing children and cooking and waxing the floor. They were raised to think their bodies were for the benefit and use of others, and it was their fault when those bodies were abused. Their mothers and sisters were usually the most powerful conveyers of these messages.
Then women got their shit together and changed the stereotypes that women were raised in. Men, and a small subset of women - generally those who benefitted from the male hierarchy of power - fought back hard against the changes, and some continue to fight back hard to this day.
Men could not have instituted the changes to the stereotypes women were raised in. It would never have worked. It had to come from women.
If men are being raised in destructive stereotypes, which I believe they are, don't you think it's time that men got their shit together and stopped that? Redefine the qualities that men look for in a worthy leader, and redefine what men consider "hot" among women, and life for all of us will quickly get a lot better.
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And their budding football careers (yes, this is AGAIN rape by student athletes!)
riderinthestorm
Jan 2014
#44
For me personally - I don't want support from those who put conditions around it. What, if I don't
seaglass
Jan 2014
#47
And jumping directly to "This is all about ME! Why are you bothering ME?" Amazing.
Squinch
Jan 2014
#145
Right you are. We are all "rad fems" for trying to post @ women's issues GD.
bettyellen
Jan 2014
#107
They know they'd get banned if they use "feminazi", though the tone is identical.
Starry Messenger
Jan 2014
#120
And "broadbrushing" is "DU woman suggesting that bad things sometimes happen to women."
Squinch
Jan 2014
#146
again with the "tone"?? we have to express our outrage, our horror, in soft, pleasing, soothing
niyad
Jan 2014
#62
found a great one at the thrift store a couple of weeks ago!! alas, already had a sold sign.
niyad
Jan 2014
#112
You think you're an ally? Then why is discussing the prevalence of gang rape
bettyellen
Jan 2014
#82
No, you attacked someone who was discussing the problem. As you can see, no one believes you ever
bettyellen
Jan 2014
#104
Oh dear, do you have ANYTHING to contribute at all here? If no, them go away as promised.
bettyellen
Jan 2014
#109
You said you wouldn't be an ally. So where does that leave you? Not belonging here.
bettyellen
Jan 2014
#111
and you lose a bit more credibility every time you do. we are so hurt you lied about ditching us..
bettyellen
Jan 2014
#116
NO. You accused a poster here of hyperbole when it came to gang rape. And threatened to withdraw
bettyellen
Jan 2014
#125
let's see--you have been registered here since 2011. you are posting in a thread on RAPE, and
niyad
Jan 2014
#121
In what context Charlie? would be a smarter answer, LOL. I'm sure you read "all the papers" too.
bettyellen
Jan 2014
#130
oh, my, we actually understand you very well indeed. this is not the first time we have seen this
niyad
Jan 2014
#122
he is here to "do battle" LOL… lost on the way to the neighborhood arcade? ran out of quarters?
bettyellen
Jan 2014
#129
great question- why does this poster find discussing rape to be- personally- their problem?
bettyellen
Jan 2014
#114
the Danish tourist was not murdered, and the connection between her story and this suicide is gang
bettyellen
Jan 2014
#140
It's super unfortunate here that when we discuss the cultural problems that cause
bettyellen
Jan 2014
#150
When it comes to politics, Democrats are better than Republicans, but not by that much.
Beacool
Jan 2014
#48
did you ever watch the pbs doc "makers: women who make american" 3 hours, well done.
niyad
Jan 2014
#132
I am old enough to remember that fight, and my naive belief that we could effect serious change.
niyad
Jan 2014
#127
I agree with you up to a point but I strongly believe that this issue of rape does NOT originate
Squinch
Jan 2014
#156
Who makes Hollywood movies? Who makes Disney movies? By and large, it isn't women.
Squinch
Jan 2014
#161
Seriously? You are letting Elizabeth Hasselback decide what you think about yourself?
Squinch
Jan 2014
#164
We are not going to get anywhere until you admit men are not the only part of the problem here...
davidn3600
Jan 2014
#167
Yes, hierarchical power structures are a fantastic way to ensure the system keeps going.
redqueen
Jan 2014
#76
periodically, time magazine runs an article (frequently headlined on the cover) with the breathless
niyad
Jan 2014
#137
Le Taz...its not...unprecidented...its not increasing...take any time earlier 30 40 50 60 years ago
Drew Richards
Jan 2014
#118
I was stunned in that last thread to learn that the rate of rape in the US is 17 times that of India
Squinch
Jan 2014
#144
We can't even get many progressives to agree that sexualization, objectification,
Zorra
Jan 2014
#124
Dehumanizing women comes with a price. When Hefner declared that "women are sex objects"
redqueen
Jan 2014
#29
I wonder how many girls participate out of fear that they may become the next victim
CrispyQ
Jan 2014
#66
I was going to say, if you think this will be considered a punishment for them, you need to spend...
Shandris
Jan 2014
#89
These boys had pictures of other girls without their clothes on, on their phones
riderinthestorm
Jan 2014
#45
I thought that thread ended up pretty unfairly categorizing a whole nation, too. nt.
polly7
Jan 2014
#115