General Discussion

davidn3600

(6,342 posts)

165. Men dont feel oppressed, there is no pressure to change

Sun Jan 19, 2014, 10:06 PM

Jan 2014

If the patriarchy is putting men and masculine behavior as superior, there isnt going to be much pressure for men to change that just so that it benefits women.

The attitude society has is that if women want to "be like men," than that's fine. But men are not going to change their behavior since masculinity is perceived by everyone to be superior, stronger, and closer to the human ideal. There was another tread on here this past week of DUers saying that the "alpha male" is the ideal person. Those are DUers that think that! Progressives.

You are saying that men should all get together and work to fight the male stereotypes the way women got together and fought against female stereotypes. It's not the same thing. Women were oppressed for a very long period of time and did not have equal rights to men. And it's also my argument that the vast majority of those female stereotypes still exist. Feminism has not be successful in that regard. Look at the way women still slut-shame each other. Or is that the fault of men as well?

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Reports: 3 boys assaulted girl before her suicide [View all] theHandpuppet Jan 2014 OP

Sigh.... sufrommich Jan 2014 #1

Yeah. 30 and 45 days sounds about right. Orrex Jan 2014 #2

I guess that's how much a girl's life is worth in this country theHandpuppet Jan 2014 #3

You know boys will be boys get the red out Jan 2014 #5

But ... but ... but ... this'll ruin their weekends ... meegbear Jan 2014 #14

And their budding football careers (yes, this is AGAIN rape by student athletes!) riderinthestorm Jan 2014 #44

So, they're learning this shit from somewhere. Le Taz Hot Jan 2014 #4

Wow. 99Forever Jan 2014 #6

So, you think this is a matter of degree? Le Taz Hot Jan 2014 #15

Why are you asking me? 99Forever Jan 2014 #16

I didn't understand your first slam at Le Taz, much less the second theHandpuppet Jan 2014 #17

You left out "broadbrush accusatory". redqueen Jan 2014 #23

For me personally - I don't want support from those who put conditions around it. What, if I don't seaglass Jan 2014 #47

Excellent. 99Forever Jan 2014 #91

What are you refusing to support redqueen Jan 2014 #117

oh, my. . .HOWEVER will we bear up under the weight of your disapprobation???? niyad Jan 2014 #123

all the while claiming to be our "allies" BainsBane Jan 2014 #141

And jumping directly to "This is all about ME! Why are you bothering ME?" Amazing. Squinch Jan 2014 #145

I asked the question in my original post. Le Taz Hot Jan 2014 #18

+1000 Katashi_itto Jan 2014 #19

What did Le Taz Hot post that was "militant"? Heidi Jan 2014 #38

Yeah, I didn't get it either... theHandpuppet Jan 2014 #50

I swear. Seems like "militant" has become a sexist dog whistle for Heidi Jan 2014 #81

Right you are. We are all "rad fems" for trying to post @ women's issues GD. bettyellen Jan 2014 #107

They know they'd get banned if they use "feminazi", though the tone is identical. Starry Messenger Jan 2014 #120

And "broadbrushing" is "DU woman suggesting that bad things sometimes happen to women." Squinch Jan 2014 #146

you don't sound like you ever had any intention of being an ally. BlancheSplanchnik Jan 2014 #56

+1 lunasun Jan 2014 #151

again with the "tone"?? we have to express our outrage, our horror, in soft, pleasing, soothing niyad Jan 2014 #62

Objections are allowed only if delivered in a ladylike manner theHandpuppet Jan 2014 #64

oh dear, and to think I flunked those classes niyad Jan 2014 #67

Where's that fainting couch when you really need one? theHandpuppet Jan 2014 #70

found a great one at the thrift store a couple of weeks ago!! alas, already had a sold sign. niyad Jan 2014 #112

She was a helluva woman theHandpuppet Jan 2014 #154

See my sig line. Le Taz Hot Jan 2014 #74

Ha-ha! Good one! theHandpuppet Jan 2014 #77

You think you're an ally? Then why is discussing the prevalence of gang rape bettyellen Jan 2014 #82

I quoted the problem. 99Forever Jan 2014 #96

No, you attacked someone who was discussing the problem. As you can see, no one believes you ever bettyellen Jan 2014 #104

Post removed Post removed Jan 2014 #106

Oh dear, do you have ANYTHING to contribute at all here? If no, them go away as promised. bettyellen Jan 2014 #109

Post removed Post removed Jan 2014 #110

You said you wouldn't be an ally. So where does that leave you? Not belonging here. bettyellen Jan 2014 #111

So what are you? Thread Gatekeeper? 99Forever Jan 2014 #113

and you lose a bit more credibility every time you do. we are so hurt you lied about ditching us.. bettyellen Jan 2014 #116

Post removed Post removed Jan 2014 #119

NO. You accused a poster here of hyperbole when it came to gang rape. And threatened to withdraw bettyellen Jan 2014 #125

Carry on. 99Forever Jan 2014 #128

Your self-awareness has suddenly become quite acute REP Jan 2014 #131

Aren't you special? 99Forever Jan 2014 #133

you are no more an ally than Todd Aiken and the rest of that bunch JI7 Jan 2014 #92

Who the fuck is "Todd Aiken?" 99Forever Jan 2014 #95

let's see--you have been registered here since 2011. you are posting in a thread on RAPE, and niyad Jan 2014 #121

In what context Charlie? would be a smarter answer, LOL. I'm sure you read "all the papers" too. bettyellen Jan 2014 #130

This type of post does your point of view no favors. yardwork Jan 2014 #98

Post removed Post removed Jan 2014 #102

Just another anonymous commenter like you. yardwork Jan 2014 #103

Really? 99Forever Jan 2014 #105

You expressed outraged at the use of the phrase BainsBane Jan 2014 #142

oh, my, we actually understand you very well indeed. this is not the first time we have seen this niyad Jan 2014 #122

he is here to "do battle" LOL� lost on the way to the neighborhood arcade? ran out of quarters? bettyellen Jan 2014 #129

we have a penny arcade here, if that would help. niyad Jan 2014 #136

great question- why does this poster find discussing rape to be- personally- their problem? bettyellen Jan 2014 #114

If you would portray that comment as "militant" MadrasT Jan 2014 #153

Ding! Ding! Ding! theHandpuppet Jan 2014 #155

Can you clarify your objection? AtheistCrusader Jan 2014 #24

I know your reply was to 99 Le Taz Hot Jan 2014 #36

I agree, but there is at least some delta between AtheistCrusader Jan 2014 #75

the Danish tourist was not murdered, and the connection between her story and this suicide is gang bettyellen Jan 2014 #140

Ah, I see, I was thinking of a different case in India. AtheistCrusader Jan 2014 #149

It's super unfortunate here that when we discuss the cultural problems that cause bettyellen Jan 2014 #150

Over the top hyperbole?!? chervilant Jan 2014 #43

Do you have a cite for this? DragonBorn Jan 2014 #59

Thank you for expressing an interest in this data. chervilant Jan 2014 #86

I'll try to catch it tonight. DragonBorn Jan 2014 #88

Why do you assume that things are better now? yardwork Jan 2014 #99

I would hope they're better now! Lunacee_2013 Jan 2014 #159

Over the top? BainsBane Jan 2014 #134

"Over the top hyperbole much?" awoke_in_2003 Jan 2014 #138

You should probably just stick to antagonizing the gungeon crowd. aikoaiko Jan 2014 #143

10% correct malaise Jan 2014 #13

They are learning it from social media. Beacool Jan 2014 #27

"Kids want to be cool." Le Taz Hot Jan 2014 #33

Why is it cool? theHandpuppet Jan 2014 #37

I come from a time when the women's movement was strong Le Taz Hot Jan 2014 #42

When it comes to politics, Democrats are better than Republicans, but not by that much. Beacool Jan 2014 #48

Old enough to remember the old fights in the 60's and 70's. theHandpuppet Jan 2014 #51

Then you know what I'm talking about. Le Taz Hot Jan 2014 #58

Yep. I'm in the same place. theHandpuppet Jan 2014 #63

I'm thinking this might need a seperate thread -- asking younger women Le Taz Hot Jan 2014 #65

That would be great theHandpuppet Jan 2014 #68

did you ever watch the pbs doc "makers: women who make american" 3 hours, well done. niyad Jan 2014 #132

I haven't but I will now. Le Taz Hot Jan 2014 #135

I am old enough to remember that fight, and my naive belief that we could effect serious change. niyad Jan 2014 #127

I agree with you up to a point but I strongly believe that this issue of rape does NOT originate Squinch Jan 2014 #156

But the perception is that "alpha-males" is what women are attracted to davidn3600 Jan 2014 #158

Who makes Hollywood movies? Who makes Disney movies? By and large, it isn't women. Squinch Jan 2014 #161

What about Elizabeth Hasselbeck? davidn3600 Jan 2014 #163

Seriously? You are letting Elizabeth Hasselback decide what you think about yourself? Squinch Jan 2014 #164

Men dont feel oppressed, there is no pressure to change davidn3600 Jan 2014 #165

*sigh* Have a nice night. Squinch Jan 2014 #166

We are not going to get anywhere until you admit men are not the only part of the problem here... davidn3600 Jan 2014 #167

David, check out this OP: Squinch Jan 2014 #162

Because it makes them feel like the Alpha males in front of their peers. Beacool Jan 2014 #46

Well then somehow we need to change the method by which Le Taz Hot Jan 2014 #49

It's always been there, in some form or another. redqueen Jan 2014 #53

2000 years Locrian Jan 2014 #60

Yes, hierarchical power structures are a fantastic way to ensure the system keeps going. redqueen Jan 2014 #76

Now THAT is significant: Le Taz Hot Jan 2014 #61

It's already started. redqueen Jan 2014 #71

I am SO happy to see this! Le Taz Hot Jan 2014 #72

The Every Day Sexism Project linked in that article sufrommich Jan 2014 #73

That project did so much. redqueen Jan 2014 #79

periodically, time magazine runs an article (frequently headlined on the cover) with the breathless niyad Jan 2014 #137

Just read a post about a republican, Lunacee_2013 Jan 2014 #160

Parents aren't doing enough to monitor Ilsa Jan 2014 #40

i think it's always been there but social media may make things even worse JI7 Jan 2014 #90

the basic reason is the same in India and here. magical thyme Jan 2014 #87

Le Taz...its not...unprecidented...its not increasing...take any time earlier 30 40 50 60 years ago Drew Richards Jan 2014 #118

Video games are not the cause of this. Mrdrboi Jan 2014 #126

I was stunned in that last thread to learn that the rate of rape in the US is 17 times that of India Squinch Jan 2014 #144

There is no rape culture! Sheldon Cooper Jan 2014 #7

Nope, that's just "a HoF invention". redqueen Jan 2014 #26

Yeah, it's just something us mean girls came up with in our spare time. Sheldon Cooper Jan 2014 #83

No excuses for what they did, but... TreasonousBastard Jan 2014 #8

You hit on it, actually. Brickbat Jan 2014 #12

I actually agree. Xyzse Jan 2014 #52

First we have to admit that there is a problem. yardwork Jan 2014 #100

We can't even get many progressives to agree that sexualization, objectification, Zorra Jan 2014 #124

Excuse ME? *30 DAYS?!* Triana Jan 2014 #9

I thought I was the only one that noticed that. Baitball Blogger Jan 2014 #11

These cases are so tragic cinnabonbon Jan 2014 #10

These guys need to be doing 20 plus years. Katashi_itto Jan 2014 #20

Agreed. cinnabonbon Jan 2014 #84

I think we need to reform the way we incarcerate juveniles. Half-Century Man Jan 2014 #21

Society has become a cesspool. Beacool Jan 2014 #22

"But he's such a good boy" theHandpuppet Jan 2014 #25

Every time I hear that BS line... AtheistCrusader Jan 2014 #30

That's the way I feel get the red out Jan 2014 #55

Parents are responsible for their home of the environment. Beacool Jan 2014 #39

Dehumanizing women comes with a price. When Hefner declared that "women are sex objects" redqueen Jan 2014 #29

You might be interested in chervilant Jan 2014 #54

I wonder how many girls participate out of fear that they may become the next victim CrispyQ Jan 2014 #66

Not going to blame porn overall here but I would point out AtheistCrusader Jan 2014 #28

That's a really tough question theHandpuppet Jan 2014 #31

How about this for punishment... kag Jan 2014 #32

Given the intelligence and attitude of a lot of godevil10 Jan 2014 #85

I was going to say, if you think this will be considered a punishment for them, you need to spend... Shandris Jan 2014 #89

A 15 year old girl is raped and driven to suicide NuclearDem Jan 2014 #34

This SERIOUSLY pisses me off! Adrahil Jan 2014 #35

What creeps marions ghost Jan 2014 #41

These boys had pictures of other girls without their clothes on, on their phones riderinthestorm Jan 2014 #45

These little monsters get the red out Jan 2014 #57

Another sad, tragic loss. polly7 Jan 2014 #69

Lord have mercy! shenmue Jan 2014 #78

Who raises these monsters? CrispyQ Jan 2014 #80

I'm curious to know about their home life theHandpuppet Jan 2014 #93

Damn. Solly Mack Jan 2014 #94

Yep. theHandpuppet Jan 2014 #97

I do not believe I will be voting for the DA KamaAina Jan 2014 #101

i am never ever visiting california. never taking such a risk. La Lioness Priyanka Jan 2014 #108

I thought that thread ended up pretty unfairly categorizing a whole nation, too. nt. polly7 Jan 2014 #115

just so you know, i said that to make a point. i love california La Lioness Priyanka Jan 2014 #148

I understood, and it was a good point. polly7 Jan 2014 #152

Audrie's Law niyad Jan 2014 #139

Fucking human mongrels. flvegan Jan 2014 #147

Does this shit ever end?! Lunacee_2013 Jan 2014 #157

It almost seems like a fucking time warp..... AverageJoe90 Jan 2014 #168