General Discussion

Armstead

(47,803 posts)

55. I think of the idiocy of the whole minimum wage battle right now

Mon Jan 20, 2014, 10:05 AM

Jan 2014

The minimum wage was hard-won, and there was always opposition to it from business.

But in the larger social context, by the 1960's it was at least accepted by the general population that wages -- and the minimum wage -- should at least be expected to cover basic living costs. Therefore there was some correlation between the minimum wage and rises in the cost of living.

And business knew that they had to abide by that principle -- both because many businesspeople were decent human beings and also because they knew the pressure from the public and policy would prevent wages that were excessively low.

But now, the minimum wage has fallen below the basement, and the public has lost the sense that people deserve a fair days pay for a fair days work.

The same applies to many of the outrageously unfair "new rules" of business.

It's discouraging to see us willingly lower our standards like that.

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Have things gotten really worse, or have I just become an Old Fart? [View all] Armstead Jan 2014 OP

Discussion would be improved by defining the words; "things" and "it". lumberjack_jeff Jan 2014 #1

The thing is it is so big and deep Armstead Jan 2014 #36

Here - let me give you some good news. TampaAnimusVortex Jan 2014 #138

That life expectancy increase is entirely due to improved child mortality. Enthusiast Jan 2014 #160

+1 dreamnightwind Jan 2014 #172

Most of it is - but not all of it... TampaAnimusVortex Jan 2014 #205

People are scared yeoman6987 Jan 2014 #74

The answer to your specific concern is to restore tax rates on wealthy on point Jan 2014 #107

Here you go. Blanks Jan 2014 #149

Go back in time and stop GWB. Dark n Stormy Knight Jan 2014 #169

If we get a time machine, I can do far better than offing that moron. n/t Egalitarian Thug Jan 2014 #196

Stop worrying about the debt. Egnever Jan 2014 #191

You are just an old fart. KentuckyWoman Jan 2014 #2

I do all that...I dont really tell kids to get off my lawn Armstead Jan 2014 #38

Yep, I think you hit the common core through everything, by saying RKP5637 Jan 2014 #128

Funny thing about "Idiocracy": Brigid Jan 2014 #155

It really is. I've never made it all the way watching it in entirety. I find RKP5637 Jan 2014 #164

You know what I say in Costco: Manifestor_of_Light Jan 2014 #165

Yep! Sometimes fiction gets way too close to reality! n/t RKP5637 Jan 2014 #167

"Hold the door, let someone out in traffic, notice a neighbor in trouble" BelgianMadCow Jan 2014 #153

It's also global Rosa Luxemburg Jan 2014 #3

you're an old fart AND things have gotten worse Skittles Jan 2014 #4

Yes, my mother used to say that...And I find myself thinking it too Armstead Jan 2014 #39

And we who are Female Old Farts, are even more distressed. Watching the freedom we SharonAnn Jan 2014 #94

Not to mention the pushback against voting rights.... Armstead Jan 2014 #118

agreed Skittles Jan 2014 #150

"I'm so glad I'm not young" awoke_in_2003 Jan 2014 #131

Everything is broken... polichick Jan 2014 #5

No things really have got worse. Initech Jan 2014 #6

Yes, even Fux has gotten worse.... Armstead Jan 2014 #40

maybe it is the internet and cable TV hfojvt Jan 2014 #7

as my 90 year old aunt said yesterday BelgianMadCow Jan 2014 #19

I remember in the 60s and 70s also had senses of breakdown Armstead Jan 2014 #41

I think we had hope, then. Optimism of youth, but KoKo Jan 2014 #203

Part of it is the Conservatives gave up trying to win over anyone and they're in a panic. Spitfire of ATJ Jan 2014 #8

Or they don't feel they need to win anyone over because... Armstead Jan 2014 #42

CORRECT. The FR doesn't need to compete: There is no opposition. Eleanors38 Jan 2014 #92

Quite the contrary. They see that their crap isn't working on a new generation.... Spitfire of ATJ Jan 2014 #116

Yet it doesn't matter dreamnightwind Jan 2014 #171

Ike wanted a 100% tax over a certain point effectively capping salaries.... Spitfire of ATJ Jan 2014 #178

Yes dreamnightwind Jan 2014 #179

It's like I predicted... Spitfire of ATJ Jan 2014 #188

People are so disgusted by it all that they aren't even talking about it much. LuvNewcastle Jan 2014 #9

So true. Unfortunately, sociopaths are great at sniffing out vulnerability... polichick Jan 2014 #103

.... 840high Jan 2014 #190

I can point you to only one confirmation. chknltl Jan 2014 #10

I always have agreed with Thom's take on everything Armstead Jan 2014 #44

The US-Western middle-class has always been protected. delrem Jan 2014 #11

You said what I just tried to say below, woo me with science Jan 2014 #13

Oh no, you said it below very clearly! delrem Jan 2014 #14

Richard Wolff sums that up as "capitalism is now ready to leave these shores" BelgianMadCow Jan 2014 #20

I can only hope so! delrem Jan 2014 #27

could you give me the urls? delrem Jan 2014 #28

November and December links BelgianMadCow Jan 2014 #31

Thank you! delrem Jan 2014 #100

+1 for Richard Wollf, worth the time to watch - eom dreamnightwind Jan 2014 #175

Thanks! Change has come Jan 2014 #192

If only we were smart enough to replacecthe void it leaves behind Armstead Jan 2014 #47

And Americans everywhere are *convinced* that everyone will say "Enough!" when it is their Romulox Jan 2014 #50

Exactly abelenkpe Jan 2014 #84

You've heard this before, I'm sure. godevil10 Jan 2014 #97

Thanks for the insider report. truedelphi Jan 2014 #168

You have it nailed. Enthusiast Jan 2014 #162

Yes, it really is worse. woo me with science Jan 2014 #12

and it's not just the US & UK BelgianMadCow Jan 2014 #18

Very well stated. CanonRay Jan 2014 #45

I've seen this coming for decades Armstead Jan 2014 #48

"it almost seems to be transcending the usual political stuff" BelgianMadCow Jan 2014 #15

Everything is worse, much worse. You have a decade on me, so I'm not sure about the old fart, part. Egalitarian Thug Jan 2014 #16

I think of the idiocy of the whole minimum wage battle right now Armstead Jan 2014 #55

So apparently this thread wasn't depressing enough. I just watched Rollerball and Egalitarian Thug Jan 2014 #194

Might as well watch the movie Network and get really depressed Armstead Jan 2014 #198

Paddy Chayefsky was exactly where I went while listening to Jewison, which then Egalitarian Thug Jan 2014 #209

to me the line was Reagan Skittles Jan 2014 #151

He pulled the trigger, but the preparations were underway for a long time. Egalitarian Thug Jan 2014 #193

The whole real story about politics polynomial Jan 2014 #17

I think rational democrats and rational republicans have a common enemy indie9197 Jan 2014 #21

Some things are better and should give us hope, like the internet... Demo_Chris Jan 2014 #22

What's wrong now? RobertEarl Jan 2014 #23

Those too Armstead Jan 2014 #49

It's because we've reached... zentrum Jan 2014 #24

Both. And you are going to get older, and "things" are going to get more upleasant. jtuck004 Jan 2014 #25

Thanks. i feel much better now Armstead Jan 2014 #51

ROFL jtuck004 Jan 2014 #142

It is clearly worse and will get much worser soon. Kablooie Jan 2014 #26

Retire? Who the hell can afford to retire these days? Armstead Jan 2014 #56

much much worser stuntcat Jan 2014 #83

your description is reminiscent of a Harry Harrison style distopia Dragonfli Jan 2014 #114

I cannot answer your question, because I may be experiencing the same thing. Jamastiene Jan 2014 #29

They're only resistant to change that benefits the people. LuvNewcastle Jan 2014 #30

The contradiction between what peop need/want and what we get is discouraging Armstead Jan 2014 #58

We're thinking with the same brain, Armstead. raven mad Jan 2014 #32

Yuppers...It's been a chip,chipping away Armstead Jan 2014 #59

Good post. Kermitt Gribble Jan 2014 #180

I'm 55, disabled, but I believe my best years are ahead of me. Kaleva Jan 2014 #33

That's a good attitude....But it's too bad the big picture can't also provide consolation Armstead Jan 2014 #60

I think its worse on the economic level Notafraidtoo Jan 2014 #34

Both. I'm a slightly older fart but remember... TreasonousBastard Jan 2014 #35

That's what's a shame...We aren't leaving the young with much to hope for Armstead Jan 2014 #63

Folks who think it was much better in the 70's and 80's are straight, white Bluenorthwest Jan 2014 #37

Nope not saying that. Armstead Jan 2014 #64

Rights are being extended to more excluded people... malthaussen Jan 2014 #108

Wish I could recommend your post: me b zola Jan 2014 #115

you're missing the point Skittles Jan 2014 #195

We are old farts OldHippieChick Jan 2014 #43

In other words maybe we also need more young farts to get off their asses? Armstead Jan 2014 #65

More bluntly put, but OldHippieChick Jan 2014 #67

Born during Nixon, Raised during Regan... tridim Jan 2014 #46

Things are really better now than the 80's? Armstead Jan 2014 #66

Yes, the 80's SUCKED. tridim Jan 2014 #69

80's sucked, but the same things that sucked then suck much worse now Armstead Jan 2014 #73

Reagan certainly sucks less tridim Jan 2014 #78

Bad Corporations have become infionetly larger and more powerful, for one Armstead Jan 2014 #80

Was late-80's darling, Enron held less accountable? tridim Jan 2014 #88

Not enough are fighting it....Most are accepting it as "the way things are" Armstead Jan 2014 #96

The '80s are Lib/Dem Achilles' heel. reformist2 Jan 2014 #120

Do you feel the same way about Reagan bashing? tridim Jan 2014 #123

WTF Skittles Jan 2014 #154

Since Democrats were in control of the House for every single second of the 1980's, I kelly1mm Jan 2014 #166

I'd like to add to the wise and thoughtful comments on this thread... KansDem Jan 2014 #52

good examples marions ghost Jan 2014 #200

it's worse, but.... Locrian Jan 2014 #53

I'm an "older fart" fredamae Jan 2014 #54

I agree -- but the public keeps electing those bastids. Armstead Jan 2014 #68

Yes, we do... fredamae Jan 2014 #75

I've come to the conclusion that CrispyQ Jan 2014 #57

You are an old fart FarCenter Jan 2014 #61

I am but.... Armstead Jan 2014 #70

Richest the planet's ever been... Octafish Jan 2014 #62

There's austerity and there's austerity Armstead Jan 2014 #71

Great idea, yours. Unfortunately, the law says they can't live with less. Octafish Jan 2014 #85

It's always BAD before it gets better. jeff47 Jan 2014 #72

I keep hoping that, but I don't see it happening Armstead Jan 2014 #77

And that is our "instant gratification" problem. jeff47 Jan 2014 #86

Again, I hope your optimnism bears fruit Armstead Jan 2014 #101

The Boomers did NOT "bring about Reaganomics" marions ghost Jan 2014 #201

You are arguing that boomers blindly followed the WWII generation jeff47 Jan 2014 #202

Not a question of "blindly followed" marions ghost Jan 2014 #208

The people you knew are not "most people". jeff47 Jan 2014 #210

Your graphic proves my point marions ghost Jan 2014 #213

My graphic that started with the 1994 election proves what happened in the 1980s. jeff47 Jan 2014 #214

YES! n/t librechik Jan 2014 #76

Yes to I'm an old fart, or the world has gotten worse...or both? Armstead Jan 2014 #79

I've been waiting for somebody to set me up like that, A-- librechik Jan 2014 #82

I think rwork Jan 2014 #104

Things have gotten much worse. But today will look like *HEAVENLY FAIRYLAND* when compared w/ 2050. stuntcat Jan 2014 #81

WORSE. People are awaking to the fact of the 1%, of their insatiable greed and destructiveness. WinkyDink Jan 2014 #87

Always been bad ...it's just changing to another bigger bad. L0oniX Jan 2014 #89

"Things" are REALLY BAD and "Things" will continue to get MUCH WORSE. democratisphere Jan 2014 #90

I'll send your dog to the pound, Armstead Jan 2014 #95

Yes. Ikonoklast Jan 2014 #91

I think we crossed several thresholds during the BFEE years Rex Jan 2014 #93

When the oligarchs got their own TV network (Fox) things got worse quickly. OregonBlue Jan 2014 #98

They don't own just FOX. bvar22 Jan 2014 #110

Sad but succinct summation Armstead Jan 2014 #126

I dont know you tell me...link Drew Richards Jan 2014 #99

Thanks for the chuckle Armstead Jan 2014 #102

Been there...my emotions are like yours and its coming in waves with more frequency...but Drew Richards Jan 2014 #105

Oh and to answer your other question...yes you're an old fart. Now get of my lawn! Drew Richards Jan 2014 #112

Income inequality is biggest global risk - TBF Jan 2014 #106

...and the World Economnic Forum is part of the club that created the mess Armstead Jan 2014 #124

DING DONG BelgianMadCow Jan 2014 #130

The fact that they admit it is very telling - TBF Jan 2014 #134

Two things give me some hope: The Internet, and that younger generations are not boomers... Demo_Chris Jan 2014 #109

You know different Boomers from I... malthaussen Jan 2014 #113

Statistically the class difference IS a generational one... Demo_Chris Jan 2014 #135

Rich families. malthaussen Jan 2014 #144

I think his point was that the boomers were and always have been brasen boorish class........ nolabels Jan 2014 #197

Well I woukldn't paint all Boomers with that broad a brush. But we certainly.... Armstead Jan 2014 #121

"We didn't follow through on the better half of our natures." malthaussen Jan 2014 #146

I stand by my point...But I don't think its generational. Just a....... Armstead Jan 2014 #199

Increasing population, increasing access of individuals to increasingly destructive technology ... MH1 Jan 2014 #111

Ah, the good old days. Nye Bevan Jan 2014 #117

You are correct in one way -- Armstead Jan 2014 #119

Although a Democrat won the last two Presidential elections Samantha Jan 2014 #122

That's a big partr of my current frustration Armstead Jan 2014 #125

Really? You think the Syria crisis would have been resolved peacefully under a Republican pres? (nt) Nye Bevan Jan 2014 #127

I was discussing domestic issues mainly but I did not make that clear Samantha Jan 2014 #132

Things have gotten far worst than they used to nadinbrzezinski Jan 2014 #129

About 35 years ago, corporations put us in a pot Arugula Latte Jan 2014 #133

No it isn't just you. THIS is perfectly stated sabrina 1 Jan 2014 #136

I'm kind of feeling that way about Chris Christie Armstead Jan 2014 #181

Yes, me too. In the past I would have been so excited to see the exposure of a right wing sabrina 1 Jan 2014 #185

You have a "freeper friend", that's depressing Corruption Inc Jan 2014 #137

I have asked myself the same thing recently arely staircase Jan 2014 #139

Move to Colorado or Washington the State. nm rhett o rick Jan 2014 #140

Stay high all the tiume you mean? Armstead Jan 2014 #182

Turn off the TV Egnever Jan 2014 #141

But the roses smell like farts Armstead Jan 2014 #183

We have no one on our side (working/middle class people) Doctor_J Jan 2014 #143

Sadly, that sums it up. bvar22 Jan 2014 #145

I really thought it was happening Doctor_J Jan 2014 #148

Moving to a civilized country sounds good. bvar22 Jan 2014 #163

It is really difficult to feel "hope" when THIS is going on. bvar22 Jan 2014 #147

Hey, another one popped up today Doctor_J Jan 2014 #187

America doesn't do stagnation well BeyondGeography Jan 2014 #152

It wouldn't be so bad if we decline to a second tier country Armstead Jan 2014 #184

I've been paying attention a lot longer and while some things have improved Warpy Jan 2014 #156

Armstead, we are the same age. Enthusiast Jan 2014 #157

yep. and the youn ger generation doesn't seem to have the moxie to change it. Armstead Jan 2014 #186

Perhaps Ted Kennedy put it most poignantly. Brigid Jan 2014 #158

Like Hillary "got health care done" in 1992? (nt) Nye Bevan Jan 2014 #161

I think we are at or approaching a tipping point. The_Commonist Jan 2014 #159

I work with a lot of Millennials and I like them too Skittles Jan 2014 #170

That, is our hope. Without that, we are basically doomed. The current RKP5637 Jan 2014 #204

I hope so, but the Millenials have NEVER TURNED ON A RADIO WITHOUT HEARING LIES AND HATE Doctor_J Jan 2014 #207

I don't think they buy propaganda like the older folks. Arugula Latte Jan 2014 #212

My answer in two sentences. Hotler Jan 2014 #173

I suggest to supply with extra water and cans LukeFL Jan 2014 #174

"Things" have gotten worse because there many more "old farts." nt kelliekat44 Jan 2014 #176

Worse... WillyT Jan 2014 #177

DAMN, I wish so many people didn't agree with my OP Armstead Jan 2014 #189

Since the 1990s it has felt as if the mean and dumb are taking over the country Lydia Leftcoast Jan 2014 #206

Old fart(no offense). Things aren't ALL getting worse. AverageJoe90 Jan 2014 #211

Economically things are much worse. We no longer live in a democracy. We live in an plutocracy. liberal_at_heart Jan 2014 #215