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ellisonz

(27,776 posts)
93. I would say there is a definite urban/rural divide...
Sat Mar 17, 2012, 06:44 PM
Mar 2012

...but there also is a racial divide. And I would also hazard from what I know that Western New York is/and has been a hotbed of religious fundamentalism from the 1830's onward. A number of religious traditions originated in Western New York, which is also commonly known as "the burned-over district" from which Mormonism and Millerism sprang forth and other sects found home. So yeah, you live in one of the most fundamentalist Christian areas outside of certain areas of the South. At the same time, Western and Upstate New York were also places where abolitionism and the women's rights movement were strong: John Brown is buried on his homestead in North Elba and Senaca Falls Convention was of course held in Seneca Falls, New York.

John Calvin was controversial even in his own time, and part of the reason he is remembered as cruel, was because so many people even in his Christian polity of Geneva plotted against him. The Christianity of Calvin was contemporary with that of Martin Luther and the Anabaptists.

The the idea that there is an association between prosperity and spirituality is hardly uniquely Calvinist, it is pervasive throughout Protestant tradition, but is strongly associated with the Calvinists. (See: Max Weber - The Protestant Ethic and the Spirit of Capitalism.

In way though, you naturally of course have set yourself up in seeming opposition to their faction, and so they of course don't like you. At the same time, when you give them the pleasure of being afraid of them they are achieving their goal. They are in my opinion, and that of many others, fundamentally divorced from the message of Jesus Christ of Nazareth and should be ashamed of themselves for perverting his words so, do not give them the respect of purporting them to be anything other than somewhat heretical.

Remember this when you think of what the Christian faith truly consists of:

“Paul’s Letter to American Christians"
Delivered at Dexter Avenue Baptist Church, Montgomery, Alabama, on 4 November 1956. MLKP.

Excerpt:

Let me rush on to say something about the church. Americans, I must remind you, as I have said to so many others, that the church is the Body of Christ. So when the church is true to its nature it knows neither division nor disunity. But I am disturbed about what you are doing to the Body of Christ. They tell me that in America you have within Protestantism more than two hundred and fifty six denominations. The tragedy is not so much that you have such a multiplicity of denominations, but that most of them are warring against each other with a claim to absolute truth. This narrow sectarianism is destroying the unity of the Body of Christ. You must come to see that God is neither a Baptist nor a Methodist; He is neither a Presbyterian nor a Episcopalian. God is bigger than all of our denominations. If you are to be true witnesses for Christ, you must come to see that America.

But I must not stop with a criticism of Protestantism. I am disturbed about Roman Catholicism. This church stands before the world with its pomp and power, insisting that it possesses the only truth. It incorporates an arrogance that becomes a dangerous spiritual arrogance. It stands with its noble Pope who somehow rises to the miraculous heights of infallibility when he speaks ex cathedra. But I am disturbed about a person or an institution that claims infallibility in this world. I am disturbed about any church that refuses to cooperate with other churches under the pretense that it is the only true church. I must emphasize the fact that God is not a Roman Catholic, and that the boundless sweep of his revelation cannot be limited to the Vatican. Roman Catholicism must do a great deal to mend its ways.

There is another thing that disturbs me to no end about the American church. You have a white church and you have a Negro church. You have allowed segregation to creep into the doors of the church. How can such a division exist in the true Body of Christ? You must face the tragic fact that when you stand at 11:00 on Sunday morning to sing "All Hail the Power of Jesus Name" and "Dear Lord and Father of all Mankind," you stand in the most segregated hour of Christian America. They tell me that there is more integration in the entertaining world and other secular agencies than there is in the Christian church. How appalling that is.

There is audio too at this website (highly recommend)


P.S. I am not a Christian.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

I don't. (feel I'm in the closet) OriginalGeek Mar 2012 #1
My tolerance for in your face Christians is almost gone, ChairmanAgnostic Mar 2012 #26
Yessir OriginalGeek Mar 2012 #65
+1 sarcasmo Mar 2012 #71
Nope LadyHawkAZ Mar 2012 #2
LOL...or maybe I'm just a big coward! CoffeeCat Mar 2012 #8
It's all about what you feel comfortable with showing LadyHawkAZ Mar 2012 #76
And shouldn't the neighbours care about others feelings? n/t intaglio Mar 2012 #29
i don't hide it, but i don't brag about DesertFlower Mar 2012 #3
No. I'm quite open about my views. MrSlayer Mar 2012 #4
"today's 'Christian' seems rabid, unreasonable, judgmental and very suspicious and critical" ellisonz Mar 2012 #5
I do realize that... CoffeeCat Mar 2012 #7
There are more than you might suspect... ellisonz Mar 2012 #10
I see it as just Christian Religion Politicalboi Mar 2012 #15
Reason it seems it is Heathen57 Mar 2012 #27
Exactly.. sendero Mar 2012 #45
You are correct, I have many brothers and sisters in UC, They are not the majority Dragonfli Mar 2012 #22
I think there are more Baptists and Catholics than you think too... ellisonz Mar 2012 #91
I can only judge the actions of those I have met, I must have picked a bad state to live in Dragonfli Mar 2012 #92
I would say there is a definite urban/rural divide... ellisonz Mar 2012 #93
Thank you for a very thoughtful and informative reply. Dragonfli Mar 2012 #94
You're welcome. ellisonz Mar 2012 #95
I am totally "in the closet" about my lack of religion, professionally at least. riderinthestorm Mar 2012 #6
I'm from the midwest as well... CoffeeCat Mar 2012 #11
You probably would feel more comfortable in such a place. Mariana Mar 2012 #16
I'm so glad to see this... pipi_k Mar 2012 #68
I've read some of your posts about that. Mariana Mar 2012 #78
I have been but am no longer silent peasant one Mar 2012 #37
I completely understand. Wheaton women would be at the public pool perfectly coiffed and made up! riderinthestorm Mar 2012 #62
Yes and no, nadinbrzezinski Mar 2012 #9
Yes, as it is far less acceptable than being a Christian in a Muslim country JCMach1 Mar 2012 #12
Depends on the situation. progressoid Mar 2012 #13
I'm pretty much the same, Auggie Mar 2012 #40
Yes I do. I'm an agnostic but I keep it to myself Raine Mar 2012 #14
Not at all. LisaL Mar 2012 #17
No because I believe in One God, One religion, ancient and everlasting. Loudmxr Mar 2012 #18
Nnnnope. cherokeeprogressive Mar 2012 #19
I've gotten pretty good at being gently open about my opinions on religion. byronius Mar 2012 #20
Try the Unitarians. There are atheist/agnostic, and also neopagan discusssion groups-- eridani Mar 2012 #21
About half of the members of my UU church safeinOhio Mar 2012 #23
Most (if not all) people that understand comparative religeon respect the UU for all the reasons you Dragonfli Mar 2012 #24
I love the Unitarian Church! I was a member of LRY as a teenager. Walk away Mar 2012 #53
yes. barbtries Mar 2012 #25
No, I don't really have any family or friends that are really religious Son of Gob Mar 2012 #28
Thank you for this, CoffeeCat! Quantess Mar 2012 #30
I'm too proud a patriot to accept their theocratic aims and "be quiet" about how wrong they are TeamsterDem Mar 2012 #31
Years ago I sometimes felt this way. These days, no -- I now feel completely free to be open. (n/t) Jim Lane Mar 2012 #32
yes I do JitterbugPerfume Mar 2012 #33
I'm not an athiest or agnostic Prophet 451 Mar 2012 #34
I love your reply renate Mar 2012 #83
I have no use for religion, and I'm never afraid to say it, but I do it politely, I will not RKP5637 Mar 2012 #35
Nope not at all DLCbtheGOP Mar 2012 #36
I used to Blue Gardener Mar 2012 #38
Not uncomfortably so bhikkhu Mar 2012 #39
If I step out of the closet here in middle Kansas, Ship of Fools Mar 2012 #41
WWJK? renate Mar 2012 #81
No etherealtruth Mar 2012 #42
No, not really... pipi_k Mar 2012 #43
Nope tavalon Mar 2012 #44
I'm a proud fifth generation atheist. Ever since my great great was excommunicated in the 1880's. hobbit709 Mar 2012 #46
Not in the closet. But also not evangelistic about my atheism, either. MineralMan Mar 2012 #47
Not at all and I have been an Atheist since I was a seven year old... Walk away Mar 2012 #48
Nope. As an X-Xtian, I am upfront with my current Xtian pals. They support me for my views. freshwest Mar 2012 #49
P. S. Reason fundies are so pushy is that they don't believe anything of what they bought into... freshwest Mar 2012 #77
I'm an agnostic, dyslexic insomniac panader0 Mar 2012 #50
I'm a Christian that goes to church but my sister in law is an atheist. Jennicut Mar 2012 #51
Yes, but then again I'm an Orthodox Athiest. hootinholler Mar 2012 #52
Very few people are aware that I am non-believer, only a few of my family members and Arkansas Granny Mar 2012 #54
Why is this in GD? Union Scribe Mar 2012 #55
Because the Atheist/Agnostic and Religion/Theology groups aren't popular? freshwest Mar 2012 #58
So much of your post resonated Sheepshank Mar 2012 #56
Henny Youngman on atheism: panader0 Mar 2012 #57
The ecumenical combination of holidays is a thing to aspire to FarCenter Mar 2012 #59
Time to change flamingdem Mar 2012 #60
Interesting question and it touched a chord within me~ brought back memories merbex Mar 2012 #61
Great point---Religious vs. Spiritual CoffeeCat Mar 2012 #72
I've just always been an Atheist... Tikki Mar 2012 #63
No bigwillq Mar 2012 #64
I don't feel I need to keep to myself with friends, even religious friends. I am spiritual not Pisces Mar 2012 #66
It highly depends on where you live jeff47 Mar 2012 #67
My niece went to elementary thru high school in Colorado (suburban Denver) Arugula Latte Mar 2012 #75
Interesting. That's where Jesus said to pray. nt gulliver Mar 2012 #69
If you talk openly about being an atheist, you are militant and you hate religion... cynatnite Mar 2012 #70
No, but I often feel that the majority on DU wants me in the closet vis-a-vis my Christianity. WillowTree Mar 2012 #73
then go to the closet and pray to thy Father, who is in secret. Occulus Mar 2012 #84
We live in a liberal city (Portland), so no, we don't hide it. Arugula Latte Mar 2012 #74
Yes, And I No Longer Let The Situation Cause Concern - Other Peoples Views Are There Own cantbeserious Mar 2012 #79
Not at all. I have huge pride in being a nonbeliever. Lucky Luciano Mar 2012 #80
I was before, not now marlakay Mar 2012 #82
No excuse not to write Mar 2012 #85
I don't mention it, but if asked, I will always answer "Yes I'm an atheist" without hesitation. Throd Mar 2012 #86
Not where I am sakabatou Mar 2012 #87
Yes, only my family and close friends know about my non-belief. RebelOne Mar 2012 #88
no JI7 Mar 2012 #89
No varelse Mar 2012 #90
Yes. Manifestor_of_Light Mar 2012 #96
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