General Discussion

gollygee

(22,336 posts)

38. I don't know if he'll get convicted

Tue Jan 21, 2014, 07:27 PM

Jan 2014

There are two issues:

1. White people can do things without punishment while the same things cause people of color to be punished at a higher rate.

2. The lives of African Americans are not valued in the criminal justice system as they should be.

African Americans are let down by the criminal justice system on both counts. They are more likely to be suspected, arrested, and convicted, and get worse punishments. But also, if they're crime victims, the criminal justice system doesn't respond in the same way as when a white person is a victim.

Based on the first part, I could see it leading to a conviction, but due to the second, with the victim being an African American young man, it might not as his life isn't as valued in the criminal justice system as it should be.

There's more of a chance of conviction since just #2 is in play, but who knows.

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Florida Man Claims Self-Defense After Hopping A Fence To Shoot, Kill 21-Year-Old In A Hoodie [View all] MrScorpio Jan 2014 OP

Fortunately juries can still say ""you are full of shit - guilty." nt hack89 Jan 2014 #1

But it's Florida, so that's not guaranteed. This guy is a stone murderer. He better not get off. Squinch Jan 2014 #4

If it was a Cop - it would be a completely justified shooting FreakinDJ Jan 2014 #11

Cops get away with abuse all the time. Basically untouchable. nt Logical Jan 2014 #19

Hard to prove murder in these cases, but I'd try him for manslaughter for sure... Hippo_Tron Jan 2014 #138

The judge can throw out the case before it gets a jury. (nt) jeff47 Jan 2014 #27

Hard to imagine that happening here hack89 Jan 2014 #32

I think SYG defense is going to go the way of the temporary insanity defense NightWatcher Jan 2014 #2

Yeah but the article said gollygee Jan 2014 #7

So you have SYG Turbineguy Jan 2014 #81

so claims to be scared yet goes after the person he is afraid of and then lies to police about JI7 Jan 2014 #3

gun owners' fantasy - hunt and kill a human nt msongs Jan 2014 #5

I own guns and harbor no such fantasy. 11 Bravo Jan 2014 #12

After it was nicely pointed out that my original post was insensitive, I will withdraw it. rhett o rick Jan 2014 #16

No. In point of fact, over 40 years later I still have nightmares about the two ... 11 Bravo Jan 2014 #22

good for you heaven05 Jan 2014 #28

So many fail to understand, sarisataka Jan 2014 #29

I will die happy, an old man in my bed, never having used a firearm in anger AtheistCrusader Jan 2014 #34

Small chance of killing an innocent kid with... Walk away Jan 2014 #80

Prefereable then that no one AtheistCrusader Jan 2014 #84

I'm not a huge fan of firearms. Would probably never own one even if I lived in the country. nomorenomore08 Jan 2014 #121

I was about to write something similar. +1 ...not a gun owner, but I don't think all gun owners evil tofuandbeer Jan 2014 #134

After Vietnam I wanted nothing to do with firearms pinboy3niner Jan 2014 #47

Glad you're still here. Gidney N Cloyd Jan 2014 #49

Thanks pinboy3niner Jan 2014 #66

Sorry, but thanks for one powerful post. Hoyt Jan 2014 #54

Thanks for the post. That took some sisu to write. riqster Jan 2014 #76

Wow! Great post. Starboard Tack Jan 2014 #83

I hear you my brother, and while I do own guns, I totally respect your choice. 11 Bravo Jan 2014 #98

As I respect yours, brother pinboy3niner Jan 2014 #162

Sorry to hear that. I know PTSD is almost more the norm than the exception, among war vets. nomorenomore08 Jan 2014 #122

Chripes. That's awful. :( tofuandbeer Jan 2014 #135

Kick some smart ass, 11 Bravo - raven mad Jan 2014 #51

"Kick some ass". Yep, and that's what it is all about. That's probably what rhett o rick Jan 2014 #109

I've never understood bullies. raven mad Jan 2014 #110

I think I understand bullies. What some people dont realize is that not only is the big guy rhett o rick Jan 2014 #123

You did misunderstand, rhett o rick. It was a metaphor/simile/whatever raven mad Jan 2014 #146

I think you've single-handedly changed my mind about gun owership. sibelian Jan 2014 #74

Which is why gun owners should not be blanketly stereotyped. And those who *do* harbor violent nomorenomore08 Jan 2014 #124

This is a shameful post. Feral Child Jan 2014 #108

That was pretty uncalled for, rhett o rick. raven mad Jan 2014 #112

Pretty crappy, oh expert on bullies. Eleanors38 Jan 2014 #136

I agree. I apologize. nm rhett o rick Jan 2014 #139

I appreciate that. With respect. Eleanors38 Jan 2014 #152

yes you do bowens43 Jan 2014 #77

Oh, look: more bullshit telepsychoanalysis! Lizzie Poppet Jan 2014 #78

Anti-gunners Delusion - "gun owners' fantasy - hunt and kill a human nt" Ghost in the Machine Jan 2014 #25

Because gun owners never do that. Oh, my mistake - THEY SEEM TO DO THAT ALMOST EVERY WEEK! baldguy Jan 2014 #39

One can claim anything he wants. ManiacJoe Jan 2014 #42

I *DO NOT* think this was a SYG case, and the guy should be charged with murder. Got it?? Ok, good! Ghost in the Machine Jan 2014 #43

Bow hunting is more challenging. svpadgham Jan 2014 #73

I used to bow hunt... with a cherry wood Long Bow when I was younger.. *much* younger lol, and agree Ghost in the Machine Jan 2014 #111

Yeah, Zimmerman said same friggin thing day before murdering Trayvon Martin. Still thinks he's a Hoyt Jan 2014 #57

Well Hoyt, how many MILLIONS of gun owners DIDN'T shoot anyone that day? Better yet, how many Ghost in the Machine Jan 2014 #67

To keep those folks in gunz, this is what we get. Not worth it. Hoyt Jan 2014 #69

I agree mostly with what you say Starboard Tack Jan 2014 #106

I don't see banning and/or confiscation happening in my lifetime, and I'll be 51 next month... Ghost in the Machine Jan 2014 #119

Well, that's not how it works. Starboard Tack Jan 2014 #120

A U.K.-esque blanket handgun ban would likely never happen here, I agree. nomorenomore08 Jan 2014 #127

The tough Aussies had the guts to pretty much ban gunz in 1996. Hoyt Jan 2014 #130

I agree we absolutely can't just "do nothing." Hoping for U.K./Australia-style gun laws is probably nomorenomore08 Jan 2014 #132

Yes. Changes in cultural attitudes certainly impacted smoking, another foul, harmful addiction that Hoyt Jan 2014 #133

Which is why those who excessively cater to gun owners are even worse than those who nomorenomore08 Jan 2014 #125

There's evidence every day in the DU Gun Control/RKBA Group..... Paladin Jan 2014 #82

I remember that old codger.. shot them right as the cops rolled up in front of his house... Ghost in the Machine Jan 2014 #115

There is a lot of prejudice and hate in the hearts of some gun banners. Eleanors38 Jan 2014 #137

That's not a fair statement. Chemisse Jan 2014 #33

Sad when this kind of drivel is taken as valid. as a reasonable view. Skip Intro Jan 2014 #58

Typical GD gun thread. Lizzie Poppet Jan 2014 #65

Like programmed bots. n/t Skip Intro Jan 2014 #88

Do they routinely carry gun in public, practice to shoot people, drool over AR15s, promote gunz etc. Hoyt Jan 2014 #104

I know not a single gun owner with such a fantasy. Lizzie Poppet Jan 2014 #64

Ever shot at a target resembling a human, practiced drawing, etc. Hoyt Jan 2014 #70

Of course. But that's not what the poster I responded to said. Lizzie Poppet Jan 2014 #75

It's disgusting how gun ownership is fetishized in America. chrisa Jan 2014 #160

Charles Pierce talks about bill to EXPAND "SYG" law in Florida: bullwinkle428 Jan 2014 #6

This is why it is important for the NRA to not be the ONLY option for gun owners AtheistCrusader Jan 2014 #35

Let assume that I am legally carrying a firearm in Florida and I am attacked ... spin Jan 2014 #63

Another gun fancier who would have called police and stayed put, except he had a gun. So, like Zman Hoyt Jan 2014 #8

THIS! BrotherIvan Jan 2014 #45

Hard to believe gun crowd does not see that. Well, maybe they do and just don't care. Hoyt Jan 2014 #53

Remember the case a year or two ago in which some guy in line at tblue37 Jan 2014 #62

Or went out to his car, got his gun and came back BrotherIvan Jan 2014 #91

I believe the black Florida woman who did this got 20 yrs. Eleanors38 Jan 2014 #140

Exactly. All he had to do was lock the doors PotatoChip Jan 2014 #68

Exactly BrotherIvan Jan 2014 #90

In most cases the only thing a gun is good for is to give a coward or a fool, some courage. n/t A Simple Game Jan 2014 #94

"Most" of over 80,000,000 fellow Ameticans? And this talk of civil war. Eleanors38 Jan 2014 #141

I should have specified concealed carry people. I doubt there are A Simple Game Jan 2014 #147

I have friends who carry concealed and they seem OK to me. Eleanors38 Jan 2014 #151

My remark may be somewhat hyperbolic but I believe for the most part to be true. A Simple Game Jan 2014 #155

I don't see the police being much of a factor... Eleanors38 Jan 2014 #156

What would the revolution look like? It may have already started. A Simple Game Jan 2014 #157

I hope you are right. Eleanors38 Jan 2014 #158

Me too. I'm ok but I want it for my children and grandchildren. n/t A Simple Game Jan 2014 #161

The Zimmerman case is precedent - TBF Jan 2014 #9

Zimmerman didn't use SYG as a defense. n/t Skip Intro Jan 2014 #55

Did I say he did? The case is still precedent - TBF Jan 2014 #71

They were both armed. n/t Skip Intro Jan 2014 #86

Trayvon Martin was armed? Dawgs Jan 2014 #92

Poster said this was shooting an unarmed teen and then Skip Intro Jan 2014 #99

Oh well that makes perfect sense then - TBF Jan 2014 #96

Doubt the shooter is a member of the NRA. Skip Intro Jan 2014 #100

I did not "imply" that - I spoke about the Trayvon Martin TBF Jan 2014 #103

Maybe not. ForgoTheConsequence Jan 2014 #102

He did not have to because when SYG was enacted in Florida, it changed definition of self-defense to Hoyt Jan 2014 #105

And Gov. Rick Scott Just Proclaimed His Intent to Make FL the #1 Tourist Destination in the World TBA Jan 2014 #10

Why would anyone want to visit a state where bumping into a person at bluestate10 Jan 2014 #50

Is he planning to put a bulletproof vest rental booth at every airport and weigh station? jmowreader Jan 2014 #56

This is a case I would be careful with. DevonRex Jan 2014 #13

Another source has a gun in the victim's pants KurtNYC Jan 2014 #14

Even if this is true BrotherIvan Jan 2014 #46

"... since when is that grounds for lethal force? oldhippie Jan 2014 #159

Surveillance cameras? randome Jan 2014 #15

I have two cameras at my front gate oneshooter Jan 2014 #113

When black people in florida start shooting white people in florida under stand your ground loudsue Jan 2014 #17

No whites in this case seveneyes Jan 2014 #18

Gawd. That is even more fucked up. loudsue Jan 2014 #20

Youth and adrenaline seveneyes Jan 2014 #21

I don't know if he'll get convicted gollygee Jan 2014 #38

lots of crazy results from SYG laws noiretextatique Jan 2014 #107

You're short-circuiting a perfectly good Zimmy thread! Eleanors38 Jan 2014 #143

but the point still stands Blue_Tires Jan 2014 #150

+1 Blue_Tires Jan 2014 #148

I'll never set foot in FL. blkmusclmachine Jan 2014 #23

Have been to Florida 4 times in 65 years. GoneOffShore Jan 2014 #36

When my family wants to do Disney, I always suggest the west coast. loudsue Jan 2014 #40

this is fucked up the SYG laws have got to go gopiscrap Jan 2014 #24

SYG seems to be there Turbineguy Jan 2014 #26

K&R. Dark n Stormy Knight Jan 2014 #30

Floriduh is one of 3 states I will never visit AAO Jan 2014 #31

I'll add Utah to that list. GoneOffShore Jan 2014 #37

That's one place I've never even considered going to. OK 4 then. AAO Jan 2014 #52

How the F is this even possible? etherealtruth Jan 2014 #41

He's been charged with 2nd-degree murder pinboy3niner Jan 2014 #44

All that's happened is the person "claims" self-defense. DirkGently Jan 2014 #95

What part of this don't people understand? freshwest Jan 2014 #48

Another emotion laden, factless trial by internet. Really, again? flvegan Jan 2014 #59

I don't think that benign discussions on internet message board LanternWaste Jan 2014 #97

And it happened in Florida. I'm shocked. Vashta Nerada Jan 2014 #60

So good he denied it at first.. that Cha Jan 2014 #61

Aaaah Florida JackInGreen Jan 2014 #72

LET HIM! HE is fucked! Rex Jan 2014 #79

Boy, I guess all those people who said the Zimmerman decision... malthaussen Jan 2014 #85

This person hasn't claimed SYG. Neither did Zimm. DirkGently Jan 2014 #89

Pants falling down and a hoodie - what a surprise... polichick Jan 2014 #87

Do blacks profile, too? Eleanors38 Jan 2014 #144

Some whites, some blacks, some people profile. polichick Jan 2014 #154

Both are black. They won't let Smith go. tblue Jan 2014 #93

Every gun owner is a responsible gun owner..... ForgoTheConsequence Jan 2014 #101

Every car owner is a responsible car owner.......... oneshooter Jan 2014 #114

Car's primary (and designed) purpose, method of transportation. PowerToThePeople Jan 2014 #116

And yet people are killed why using oneshooter Jan 2014 #117

Jet Ski/ Boat/ Toaster/ Light bulb socket. PowerToThePeople Jan 2014 #118

That is a reflection of mental health care in America hack89 Jan 2014 #126

Idiotic comparison. ForgoTheConsequence Jan 2014 #128

Yeah, but Oneshooter, no one here has a user name like Onecardriver. Hoyt Jan 2014 #131

This happened in Orlando Fl? tjl148 Jan 2014 #129

Yep, the BigNewz� exception. Had a similar case in Austin. Knife used=obscurity. Eleanors38 Jan 2014 #145

Orlando Sentinel: pinboy3niner Jan 2014 #149

Thanks tjl148 Jan 2014 #153

You know, these days, I'm feeling distinctly afraid of my ex-mother-in-law.... Th1onein Jan 2014 #142