General Discussion

pampango

(24,692 posts)

4. I don't think anyone, anywhere (the West or Russia) should push Ukraine or Ukrainians.

Thu Jan 23, 2014, 06:52 AM

Jan 2014

Many democratic countries in eastern Europe and the former Yugoslavia have chosen to establish closer ties with the EU or actually become members of it. Others (at least Belarus and Kazakhstan - which probably would not qualify as the most democratic countries in the world - and perhaps others) have linked with Russia in a customs union.

I don't believe in a 'sphere of influence' politics that requires countries near Russia to be linked to Russia and countries near the US to be linked to the US. (Mexico has a 'free trade' agreement with the EU which does not seem to bend the US out of shape.) The Monroe Doctrine (and the Russian version of it) is dead and buried. And I certainly do not believe that a "bloody farce" crackdown by a beleaguered government is somehow justified by a doctrine that people don't matter as much as geo-politics and 'spheres of influence'.

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DU's New Cold Warriors [View all] Ken Burch Jan 2014 OP

I confess I don't remember pre-1989 (I was 1) but I'm pretty sure the Cold War Nuclear Unicorn Jan 2014 #1

Hyperbole much? Are_grits_groceries Jan 2014 #2

The only change that came DURING the Cold War era came against the will of the "anticommunists". Ken Burch Jan 2014 #3

If the concern is ppl clinging to anachronistic patterns in spite of current political realities Nuclear Unicorn Jan 2014 #9

Do you have a remote clue who Vitali Klitschko is and what his positions are? Are_grits_groceries Jan 2014 #10

Klitschko is center-right, based on that. Ken Burch Jan 2014 #11

I don't think anyone, anywhere (the West or Russia) should push Ukraine or Ukrainians. pampango Jan 2014 #4

Major difference there, though...Mexico never invaded the U.S. Ken Burch Jan 2014 #6

I don't think Putin feels threatened by an EU army. If all he wants from the EU is a pampango Jan 2014 #7

France essentially CAUSED its second invasion by Germany. Ken Burch Jan 2014 #18

You're giving Hitler a bit of a pass there. He was not forced to invade France in 1940. pampango Jan 2014 #20

My point was that the treaty had essentially put Hitler in power. Ken Burch Jan 2014 #21

1939 was 75 years ago. geek tragedy Jan 2014 #19

Only a person whose country has never been invaded by another country Ken Burch Jan 2014 #23

i hope to goodness we're over 911 by then. NYC is pretty much over it already nt geek tragedy Jan 2014 #25

Are you sure about that? JVS Jan 2014 #5

I would amend that slightly Fumesucker Jan 2014 #12

Fair enough. n/t. Ken Burch Jan 2014 #14

I wonder how much the naval base pisses them off, it played a role in the last Syria showdown jakeXT Jan 2014 #8

Some of us think the threat of Communism was the only thing keeping the capitalists in check Fumesucker Jan 2014 #13

that explains a LOT snooper2 Jan 2014 #16

So let's feed Ukraine to Putin and hope that keeps him happy? Adrahil Jan 2014 #15

what kind of authoritarian bunk is calling them 'so-called protestors'? geek tragedy Jan 2014 #17

I deleted that phrase. You're right to have responded as you did. Ken Burch Jan 2014 #24

How is this not a call-out? 1000words Jan 2014 #22

I support the Ukrainians who are for closer ties to the EU MNBrewer Jan 2014 #26

Doing that is pretty much just switching from one empire to another empire. Ken Burch Jan 2014 #27

If they want to link up with someone, they should choose the EU but it is their choice. pampango Jan 2014 #28

Wasn't saying they should choose Russia...they should choose neutrality. Ken Burch Jan 2014 #29

They're no talking about joining NATO, ya know... Adrahil Jan 2014 #34

Vitaly Klitschko wants NATO membership Ken Burch Jan 2014 #36

Why not? Adrahil Jan 2014 #37

Would Russia have become "a threat" if the "winners" of the Cold War, like the "winners" in 1918 Ken Burch Jan 2014 #39

Man... Adrahil Jan 2014 #40

Yes. Why the hell should we care about civil rights in other countries? Agnosticsherbet Jan 2014 #30

I wasn't saying give them a pass. Ken Burch Jan 2014 #31

We engaged in the Cold War because the US and the old Soviet Union emerged Agnosticsherbet Jan 2014 #32

but do it without causing World War III Ken Burch Jan 2014 #33

Calling Russia on their failures in civil rights will not get us into a war. Agnosticsherbet Jan 2014 #35

You've just made the case for dissolving NATO...doing so would only help. Ken Burch Jan 2014 #38

People, don't be fooled there is a underlying message here. William769 Jan 2014 #41

Huh? Pretzel_Warrior Jan 2014 #42

Right because Russia is embracing human rights and Europe grantcart Jan 2014 #43