General Discussion

Armstead

(47,803 posts)

141. That's the problem

Fri Jan 24, 2014, 04:46 PM

Jan 2014

These things are negotiated in secret, but it's all of us whio have to live with the consequences -- both the intended consequences and the unintended ones.

Some agreements and treaties should be negotiated in secret, if they involve sensitive information things that affect true national security. But those should be debated in the open before ratification.

But when you're talking about "trade" treaties that affect all aspects of life, they should be in an open manner.

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The Trans-Pacific Partnership looks like a giant step toward the end of sovereign nations. [View all] rhett o rick Jan 2014 OP

They Want A "One World Economy" Where They Can Exploit Everything. TheMastersNemesis Jan 2014 #1

Yes I agree. Even Democrats want that. nm rhett o rick Jan 2014 #2

See: Clinton solarhydrocan Jan 2014 #5

TPP or not, I'll vote for Hillary Progressive dog Jan 2014 #66

I haven't decided. But her support of TPP would weigh against it. JDPriestly Jan 2014 #73

I don't want her. I want someone better to run. glinda Jan 2014 #88

Bernie Sanders has said that if no one else runs, he will. JDPriestly Jan 2014 #98

He would have mine also. Just hate to tie his hands should he get elected. glinda Jan 2014 #163

Yes I can see how those that support Wall Street would support Clinton-Sachs. nm rhett o rick Jan 2014 #91

I do support capitalism with FDR regulation, Progressive dog Jan 2014 #116

Do you think that H. Clinton-Sachs is a progressive? Do you think her close ties with rhett o rick Jan 2014 #118

Hillary Clinton is a Progressive, Progressive dog Jan 2014 #119

By whose definition is H. Clinton a progressive? Does she support FDR type regulations? rhett o rick Jan 2014 #120

Yes, she supports FDR style regulations. Progressive dog Jan 2014 #121

There's a huge difference between "isolationist" and basic common sense Armstead Jan 2014 #126

Basic common sense relies on facts, not imagination. Progressive dog Jan 2014 #128

I'm not going down that road Armstead Jan 2014 #130

Of course you need no evidence, facts don't matter Progressive dog Jan 2014 #132

See you're already doing it." Nyah nyah I deal with facts. You're just making stuff up." Armstead Jan 2014 #133

So that was all FDR and Clinton ever did in your mind? Progressive dog Jan 2014 #137

Oh you're good at this Armstead Jan 2014 #139

You don't even know what a fact is Progressive dog Jan 2014 #140

Now you've become boring. Armstead Jan 2014 #142

You started there Progressive dog Jan 2014 #143

P.S. I've been paying attention to this stuff for 30 years... Armstead Jan 2014 #134

Do I understand you to say that you think that the TPP and NAFTA are progressive? nm rhett o rick Jan 2014 #146

No you did not Progressive dog Jan 2014 #147

In the area of economy, how is H. Clinton-Sachs progressive? nm rhett o rick Jan 2014 #148

There is no Clinton-Sachs Progressive dog Jan 2014 #151

Socially progressive -- But a corporate conservative on issues of money and power Armstead Jan 2014 #125

If she is a corporate conservative, Progressive dog Jan 2014 #127

FDR pushed for financial regulation. Clinton killed it. Armstead Jan 2014 #129

See Business Week: she played a leading part in drafting the TPP antigop Jan 2014 #83

That does. I will never support her, wouldn't have anyway because of her support for War, but that sabrina 1 Jan 2014 #92

I won't back down, we have to push back early and hard. NYC_SKP Jan 2014 #96

I agree. Now is the time to make it clear that if Dems push her they will lose. So they better start sabrina 1 Jan 2014 #97

They need to own their shit, their wars and their selling out the middle class. NYC_SKP Jan 2014 #105

Exactly. And in many ways it's our fault too for looking the other way because the alternative is sabrina 1 Jan 2014 #117

Yeah abelenkpe Jan 2014 #155

it's not dems versus gop magical thyme Jan 2014 #80

My point exactly. nm rhett o rick Jan 2014 #81

Who are 'they'? nt babylonsister Jan 2014 #18

see reply #5, for one of "them". delrem Jan 2014 #32

The rich, powerful people, who meet in secret, ronnie624 Jan 2014 #46

Is this a rhetorical question implying that anyone who thinks there is a "they" ChisolmTrailDem Jan 2014 #56

The question implies that there is a 'conspiracy theory' at play. ronnie624 Jan 2014 #58

"Conspiracy" is not some lunatic notion. Maedhros Jan 2014 #59

I agree with you 100%. ronnie624 Jan 2014 #60

By definition, the TPP is a conspiracy, bvar22 Jan 2014 #65

"Conspiracy" is a legal term defined as follows: JDPriestly Jan 2014 #74

All those currently attending Davos. Ikonoklast Jan 2014 #57

Winner! ^^^^^ nt ChisolmTrailDem Jan 2014 #64

The right is all over the "One World Government" and FTA's and the WTO (One World Economy?) pampango Jan 2014 #42

This is one time when I agree with the conservatives..... Swede Atlanta Jan 2014 #52

Yes. TPP is very unpopular among both Republicans and Democrats. JDPriestly Jan 2014 #82

I was once surprised to hear a Canadian say that NAFTA "only benefited the US".. whathehell Jan 2014 #109

One Canadian industry that benefitted from NAFTA was truedelphi Jan 2014 #158

So what? Are you saying that not liking TPP means one is "right"? El_Johns Jan 2014 #101

"smear by association" is all they got bobduca Jan 2014 #104

The poll does not have anything to do with the TPP. The far right believes it is the 'liberal elite' pampango Jan 2014 #112

IF DA TEA PARTY IS AGIN IT, WE MUST BE FER IT!1111 bobduca Jan 2014 #103

Perhaps not. But we share little in terms of the tea party world view, I suspect. pampango Jan 2014 #136

And your point is?....... Armstead Jan 2014 #131

Correct me if I am wrong, but aren't our international treaties and agreements almost always pampango Jan 2014 #138

That's the problem Armstead Jan 2014 #141

Agree - the only benefit to that TBF Jan 2014 #76

Adios, Our Social Security Trust Fund stuffmatters Jan 2014 #86

Treaties are a way around existing law. That simple! Coyotl Jan 2014 #3

They are called "agreements" specifically for that reason solarhydrocan Jan 2014 #9

So where is this leading? Will there be one world government run by someone chosen by the rhett o rick Jan 2014 #11

Joe Biden knows solarhydrocan Jan 2014 #14

Whoever is really running the show has 30,000 armed Drones coming to watch you where you live/work. blkmusclmachine Jan 2014 #24

This makes my stomach turn. nt octoberlib Jan 2014 #4

and mine 840high Jan 2014 #22

Exactly FiveGoodMen Jan 2014 #6

It's not his fault, Penny Pritzker is making him do it. nm rhett o rick Jan 2014 #7

k/r ........ Sobering. marmar Jan 2014 #8

"Corporate persons" need to be subject to corporal punishment Scootaloo Jan 2014 #10

Yes, it's been called the end of the order of Metternich nadinbrzezinski Jan 2014 #12

No one in power is worried about the American Empire. They are looking to a World government. rhett o rick Jan 2014 #13

That is part of it nadinbrzezinski Jan 2014 #15

They get their empire via these trade agreements, it's just not the American Empire. rhett o rick Jan 2014 #29

Led by the US nadinbrzezinski Jan 2014 #30

Harnessing the US military and infrastructure but above all of us (is what I suspect). FiveGoodMen Jan 2014 #69

They (our politicians) are expecting to be taken care of after they destroy our country. indie9197 Jan 2014 #38

The TPP be the end of the Bretton Woods? The intent of FDR's 1944 conference is still alive. pampango Jan 2014 #43

Yes, the us intents to dominate with the dollar nadinbrzezinski Jan 2014 #49

Of Course It Is... They Just Don't Know How To Explain It, Without Using The Word FASCISM... WillyT Jan 2014 #16

This is the "New World Order" that GHWB referred to.... ReRe Jan 2014 #17

once went to an editorial meeting of an alternative daily here BelgianMadCow Jan 2014 #19

NAFTA Super Highway FTW Renew Deal Jan 2014 #20

Wow...nice map! KoKo Jan 2014 #21

Right Wing Watch: The NAFTA Superhighway and North American Union are far-right conspiracy theories pampango Jan 2014 #41

I know. So is "the end of sovereign nations" talk Renew Deal Jan 2014 #51

I noticed that too. JoePhilly Jan 2014 #71

Remember when the GOP blocked the UN disabilities treaty in the Senate in 2012? Cali_Democrat Jan 2014 #145

Thank you! Cali_Democrat Jan 2014 #79

The GOP passed the job-killing "free trade" treaties brentspeak Jan 2014 #93

There is a huge divide between the republican base and politicians on NAFTA and 'free trade' pampango Jan 2014 #115

So you provide graphs to illustrate how the trade treaties have killed the USA brentspeak Jan 2014 #122

The graphs show US manufacturing employment has been declining since 1955. What "trade treaties" pampango Jan 2014 #135

Here's some Links to help you out about NAFTA since you seem confused: KoKo Jan 2014 #144

Thanks for not anwering the question. The 40 year decline in manufacturing jobs did not pampango Jan 2014 #152

Not quite true...you need to check out the links. You are looking KoKo Jan 2014 #157

Change You Can BeLIEve In, Bay-bee! blkmusclmachine Jan 2014 #23

And by extension, democracy. woo me with science Jan 2014 #25

That is the major thrust, the end of the democratic era. TheKentuckian Jan 2014 #36

I think quite a few of us already have felt that for truedelphi Jan 2014 #106

No doubt but this is still a pretty significant actual legal advancement of that conclusion. TheKentuckian Jan 2014 #123

Oops, I just realized I didn't focus on the words truedelphi Jan 2014 #154

I don't see how really. We'd have to be of a mind to pretty much go rogue, drop out of the WTO, TheKentuckian Jan 2014 #162

"It's not a game a man is supposed to grow strong in, Jonathan..." villager Jan 2014 #26

K&R n/t NealK Jan 2014 #27

i think its about time TimeToEvolve Jan 2014 #28

And welcome to DU zeemike Jan 2014 #31

It's a scam. We have one party with two faces in order to keep... polichick Jan 2014 #63

TPP is unbelievably bad. blackspade Jan 2014 #33

More like the end of the "Western World" as previously defined. delrem Jan 2014 #34

Good points and interesting perspective which makes much sense... KoKo Jan 2014 #160

Go To DC! Do something! nt babylonsister Jan 2014 #35

I Agree, Sir: This Is 'Corporate Sovereignity', And It Is An Abomination The Magistrate Jan 2014 #37

+1 dreamnightwind Jan 2014 #161

What is supposed to be the benefit of doing this? Skip Intro Jan 2014 #39

Well, two things that I know of, truedelphi Jan 2014 #107

Sadly... KoKo Jan 2014 #159

Recommended 1000X and kicked too. Enthusiast Jan 2014 #40

They don't call it 'Globalization' for nothing. Octafish Jan 2014 #44

Interesting that the country that trades the least had the most go to the 1%. pampango Jan 2014 #45

Neat. I had not seen that. Octafish Jan 2014 #47

You are very right about the concentration of new wealth. pampango Jan 2014 #54

Selective examples. Try Singapore for a "country" that "trades the most." Like 270% of its GDP. El_Johns Jan 2014 #100

Singapore and Hong Kong are essentially city-states but your point about the importance of pampango Jan 2014 #113

Elected governments will be meaningless jsr Jan 2014 #48

Big worry. Baitball Blogger Jan 2014 #50

Just Say NO to the TPP !!!!!!!!!!!! SamKnause Jan 2014 #53

Those pesky local labor laws moondust Jan 2014 #55

Welcome to the United States of America, LLC tclambert Jan 2014 #61

Really! The American flag with the corporate logos comes to mind. polichick Jan 2014 #62

K & R AzDar Jan 2014 #67

This was the ultimate goal of world elites all along. Now resource/energy control can proceed ancianita Jan 2014 #68

Like a Houseman speech in Rollerball One_Life_To_Give Jan 2014 #70

Yes. The beginning of the end of nation-states, and the change to corporate-states. JDPriestly Jan 2014 #72

Hamlet: Seems, madam? Nay, 'tis. I know not seems. Jack Rabbit Jan 2014 #75

If you believe corporations should have extrajudicial power the TPP is for you. pa28 Jan 2014 #77

and we have to get this news in the form of a "leak", makes me wonder Phlem Jan 2014 #78

TTP = 666 sulphurdunn Jan 2014 #84

Say hello to our new soverign..... paleotn Jan 2014 #85

Was the nation-state model ever all that good? ymetca Jan 2014 #87

Will the wars of the future be between rival corporate cabals? nm rhett o rick Jan 2014 #89

Weren't they always, more or less? El_Johns Jan 2014 #102

Yes, more or less. The American Revolutionary War was between the colonies and rhett o rick Jan 2014 #156

Welcome and good comment! Mosaic Jan 2014 #94

I feel that a World Parliament would be a good first step, particularly if we want... Humanist_Activist Jan 2014 #99

You think cororate powers will promote DEMOCRACY???!!!! Bless your heart. WinkyDink Jan 2014 #110

First off no, second off, learn how to spell corporate if you want to try to be condescending... Humanist_Activist Jan 2014 #111

The US says it wants to "expand democratic values" but does the opposite solarhydrocan Jan 2014 #114

But you seem to be missing the point Armstead Jan 2014 #150

Recommend! KoKo Jan 2014 #90

Recommended. (nt) NYC_SKP Jan 2014 #95

I said this two months ago... Jasana Jan 2014 #108

Maybe that's a good sign...(i.e. more peolple paying attention now) /nt Armstead Jan 2014 #149

k&R woo me with science Jan 2014 #124

The people of the world will be so fucked if this goes through. nt City Lights Jan 2014 #153