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In reply to the discussion: What is going on in Ukraine? Who is for what in that country? [View all]pampango
(24,692 posts)30. "NATO politics does not allow for neutral countries. You are either with us or against us."
Doesn't seem that Russian (or at least Putin) politics allow for neutral countries either. Sad for Ukrainians.
If Yanukovych understood this in 2010 (he seems to get it now) he should have changed his campaign position from being pro-EU integration to making it clear that Ukraine has no choice but to stay close to Russia for economic reasons. Did he really believe what he was saying in 2010 or was he just another cynical politician telling people what they wanted to hear, while knowing they cannot do what they want.
In the short run Ukraine will suffer economically if they distance themselves from Russia. In the long run, Ukraine could adapt to its energy dependence on foreign sources. Many developed countries survive quite well despite the absence of energy independence.
The real choice is up to the Ukrainian people. In the short term alienating Putin would make life quite difficult. In the long term perhaps it is worth it if they think an European life style is preferable (which is what Yanukovych himself has said).
Without energy the economy collapses; Ukraine runs on oil and gas from Russian pipelines.
If Yanukovych understood this in 2010 (he seems to get it now) he should have changed his campaign position from being pro-EU integration to making it clear that Ukraine has no choice but to stay close to Russia for economic reasons. Did he really believe what he was saying in 2010 or was he just another cynical politician telling people what they wanted to hear, while knowing they cannot do what they want.
In the short run Ukraine will suffer economically if they distance themselves from Russia. In the long run, Ukraine could adapt to its energy dependence on foreign sources. Many developed countries survive quite well despite the absence of energy independence.
The real choice is up to the Ukrainian people. In the short term alienating Putin would make life quite difficult. In the long term perhaps it is worth it if they think an European life style is preferable (which is what Yanukovych himself has said).
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I thought the same thing....just read that China bought a bunch of their land to farm for
Laura PourMeADrink
Jan 2014
#25
Party in government is pro-Russia. Demonstrators are pro-EU and want Ukraine to align with Europe.
Spider Jerusalem
Jan 2014
#5
getting big loans from the EU or EU/IMF/ECB troika comes with current EU neoliberal policies as well
BelgianMadCow
Jan 2014
#14
The agricultural west wants to join EU; the industrial east wants to join Russia
FarCenter
Jan 2014
#8
Yanukovych actually ran on a pro-EU integration platform in the 2010 election.
pampango
Jan 2014
#22
Without energy the economy collapses; Ukraine runs on oil and gas from Russian pipelines
FarCenter
Jan 2014
#26
"NATO politics does not allow for neutral countries. You are either with us or against us."
pampango
Jan 2014
#30
That is interesting to me. My grandparents immigrated from the Ukraine sometime around 1920 but
Laura PourMeADrink
Jan 2014
#27
I'm reccing this thread for the audacity and courage to a) say you don't know and b) ask for help
BelgianMadCow
Jan 2014
#13
All I know is that it's a fine mess and we need to stay the hell out of it.
LuvNewcastle
Jan 2014
#15
No, "you" wont stay out. You're perceived to be in the thick of it. To wit:
BelgianMadCow
Jan 2014
#19
It's just as I thought. Some people have to stick their noses (and dollars) into everything.
LuvNewcastle
Jan 2014
#24
Actually, siding with the protesters sounds like it has its shortcomings, as well.
randome
Jan 2014
#35
JDP - You left yourself wide open. But ! It always amazes me that people here
Laura PourMeADrink
Jan 2014
#28