General Discussion

exboyfil

(18,332 posts)

92. Then they are wasting their time as well

Reply to Sen. Walter Sobchak (Reply #57)

Sat Jan 25, 2014, 08:10 PM

Jan 2014

My oldest daughter is not doing any literature past the 10th grade. I am ok with that. She will have two years of engineering done while in High School. She is a very good communicator (both written and with video documentaries). As I have gotten older I have changed my opinions on classical literature. I used to be in favor of it, but I am not entirely sure what an individual gets out of it now. I read mostly non-fiction including Scientific American cover to cover. I occasionally get out my Shakespeare, but I find it is a far better experience to watch it than read it.

I think in English class you should write about things that are important and read a wide variety of non-fiction including history, science, and politics to become a better citizen. Why should we expect literature of the past to be superior to that of today. That is not true with science for example. You can honor and recognize the achievements of the past, but you don't learn about evolution from "On the Origin of Species".

If you enjoy the literature that is one thing, but as the language and approaches continue to change, that enjoyment becomes less and less. Is the work to reach the level of understanding to bridge 400+ years worth the effort given the other academic things which need to be accomplished? How many times do you want to hear "rosy-fingered dawn"?

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Trend-starting Texas drops algebra II mandate [View all] jsr Jan 2014 OP

I have never used geometry in my life B2G Jan 2014 #1

Hmm, carpenters use it all the time. Just sayin'. We use it more than we think. SharonAnn Jan 2014 #2

Then teach it as part of a vocational trade B2G Jan 2014 #4

Back when I was in school, we learned basic math early on. MineralMan Jan 2014 #8

They do, but many of them require advance math courses B2G Jan 2014 #10

Well, I'm sorry they had difficulty with math. MineralMan Jan 2014 #35

Algebra II is not "advanced math" more than reading "Of Mice and Men" is advanced MillennialDem Jan 2014 #36

Math is a "doing" discipline Aerows Jan 2014 #47

that sounds like an awful lot hfojvt Jan 2014 #49

necessary training for logical and rational thinking. Deep13 Jan 2014 #27

That is just adding and subtracting sammytko Jan 2014 #84

Carpenters do use practical geometry, but they never have to spend hours writing proofs OmahaBlueDog Jan 2014 #9

Geometry proofs are easy as pie. And Algebra II has zero or rarely any proofs. MillennialDem Jan 2014 #38

I'm glad they were easy for you. For many others among us -- not so much. (nt) OmahaBlueDog Jan 2014 #40

I can see the point of greatly reducing or eliminating the proofs in Geometry, but I'm sick MillennialDem Jan 2014 #66

Everyone thinks they suck at math but excel at writing...it's usually the opposite alcibiades_mystery Jan 2014 #95

And machinists. ret5hd Jan 2014 #3

I use it all the time, and so do a lot of other people. MineralMan Jan 2014 #5

Trig is very practical, but it doesn't get taught in HS now until pre-calculus OmahaBlueDog Jan 2014 #11

Really? Hmm. In 1962, I took an entire year of trig in HS. MineralMan Jan 2014 #15

that is just plain not true dsc Jan 2014 #75

OBkid1 just took pre-calc. It was her first serious exposure to trig. OmahaBlueDog Jan 2014 #106

I am teaching Math 3 this semester (it is the replacement for alg 2) and dsc Jan 2014 #109

I'm not doubting what you're saying. Maybe it's a state by state variance? OmahaBlueDog Jan 2014 #119

It will be coming your way soon dsc Jan 2014 #123

Calculus was rough but I was glad to have taken it abelenkpe Jan 2014 #17

Same here ... had to take many semesters of it in college etherealtruth Jan 2014 #29

Um, really? abelenkpe Jan 2014 #12

I'm an IT project manager B2G Jan 2014 #19

My younger brother couldn't even pass basic Algebra abelenkpe Jan 2014 #24

I would have benefitted far more B2G Jan 2014 #26

There are two parts to geometry. Igel Jan 2014 #86

I bet you have, and don't even realize it. X_Digger Jan 2014 #16

Yes, see my post above B2G Jan 2014 #20

No fair changing the premise in mid-stream :P X_Digger Jan 2014 #30

Sorry, I got carried away. B2G Jan 2014 #31

Ever hung wallpaper? pnwmom Jan 2014 #62

Geometry is not math it is logic. Downwinder Jan 2014 #21

I suspect you have. WinkyDink Jan 2014 #23

People lived for hundreds of thousands of years without electricity or indoor plumbing struggle4progress Jan 2014 #33

Um, OK. nt B2G Jan 2014 #34

Geometry Sgent Jan 2014 #42

I used it just a couple of days ago DrDan Jan 2014 #45

If you can identify kids who won't, sure. Donald Ian Rankin Jan 2014 #52

you do use it, you just don't know it. hollysmom Jan 2014 #55

My response is the opposite. Igel Jan 2014 #87

that doesn't make any sense hollysmom Jan 2014 #100

Should they require logic instead? Or a class teaching spatial skills? pnwmom Jan 2014 #60

You use it every time you open your eyes. defacto7 Jan 2014 #77

I use it every day at work as a mechanic bhikkhu Jan 2014 #80

You use it all the time when you drive, park your car, manage furniture placement in bluestate10 Jan 2014 #113

You use it abstractly pretty much every waking second of your life. Gravitycollapse Jan 2014 #115

I use geometry a lot... a la izquierda Jan 2014 #122

I haven't played dodgeball since gym - they should dump that too. tenderfoot Jan 2014 #126

This message was self-deleted by its author lumberjack_jeff Jan 2014 #128

Nor logic, apparently. RetroLounge Jan 2014 #133

Geometry is not a required for graduation Ms. Toad Jan 2014 #137

Yes, you have. Hissyspit Jan 2014 #140

I don't know if my autistic son will be able to make it to algebra II or not but I like the idea liberal_at_heart Jan 2014 #6

Exactly. B2G Jan 2014 #13

"They" (ALEC, Koch Brothers, religious idiocy, etc.) are slowly but surely dumbing us down and ChisolmTrailDem Jan 2014 #7

Burger flipping is the mainstay of Perry's economy. onehandle Jan 2014 #14

Just teach 'em to say HappyMe Jan 2014 #18

You could say it in Old English or French and you still wouldn't need to use Algebra II. Algebra I WinkyDink Jan 2014 #82

Ok, I had up to and including Calculus. I became an English teacher. Alg II? Yeah, never used. WinkyDink Jan 2014 #22

That's awful. Our school requires four credits of math to graduate (4 years). MissB Jan 2014 #25

What this country needs are people who know even less math than they do now. nt Deep13 Jan 2014 #28

exactly - we need to dumb down the population DrDan Jan 2014 #46

Whether you ever use such courses in life or in a job ... frazzled Jan 2014 #32

The problem is that they teach math as isolated problems, that have little to do with each other. RC Jan 2014 #37

Excellent observation. nt B2G Jan 2014 #39

That's a well-known problem among math teachers Nevernose Jan 2014 #43

The math teachers are required to teach math as word problems. RC Jan 2014 #50

I very much prefer word problems. Always have. lumberjack_jeff Jan 2014 #129

Me, too Nevernose Jan 2014 #135

You just reminded me of one of our HS physics classes PADemD Jan 2014 #51

I would find something like that interesting. RC Jan 2014 #56

Some people never have to use the ideas of force, work, and power. Igel Jan 2014 #88

Word problems try but often fail. MindPilot Jan 2014 #70

Bingo! RC Jan 2014 #73

Now the student understands that objects flying into the wind go slower. lumberjack_jeff Jan 2014 #131

The answer is Satan. (NT) Heywood J Jan 2014 #125

Pseudonym for Conservative? RC Jan 2014 #132

Excessive math requirements are just setting otherwise successful students up to fail Sen. Walter Sobchak Jan 2014 #41

That's also true for plenty of other subjects, like English for example Fumesucker Jan 2014 #48

People can bullshit English by using the words journey and struggle enough Sen. Walter Sobchak Jan 2014 #57

Literally minded people who are good at math and science often aren't very good bullshitters Fumesucker Jan 2014 #61

Then they are wasting their time as well exboyfil Jan 2014 #92

But what is excessive? I don't think its safe to assume the future will be dumb bhikkhu Jan 2014 #99

I'm not saying it shouldn't be taught, Sen. Walter Sobchak Jan 2014 #101

you know what would be more useful than algebra II? Personal finance. liberal_at_heart Jan 2014 #102

No kidding, I used to work on bankruptcies Sen. Walter Sobchak Jan 2014 #103

Sigh shenmue Jan 2014 #44

And a big ol' chunk of DU rallies 'round the notion. Codeine Jan 2014 #54

Yup. Igel Jan 2014 #105

Replace it with Creationism HockeyMom Jan 2014 #53

Algebra is boring enough without adding a II to it. Tierra_y_Libertad Jan 2014 #58

Every single subject has students who think it's either boring as hell or impossibly abstruse Fumesucker Jan 2014 #59

exactly - why are schools requiring students to take the "boring" subjects DrDan Jan 2014 #63

Indeed. Tierra_y_Libertad Jan 2014 #64

For you maybe. Reading novels are boring to me. Math and reading scientific and technical MillennialDem Jan 2014 #67

On the contrary. The mathematics of semigroups can be very interesting. mathematic Jan 2014 #68

Yeah, but what about people who try really hard to understand algebra... Dr. Strange Jan 2014 #108

Let's just give everyone a coloring book and a diploma. ForgoTheConsequence Jan 2014 #65

First they cut the music and art swilton Jan 2014 #69

Well if we cut math.... ForgoTheConsequence Jan 2014 #71

Thread win! ^^^^ nt ChisolmTrailDem Jan 2014 #74

Without math you cannot understand a lot of problems sadoldgirl Jan 2014 #72

Let's continue to water down education nadinbrzezinski Jan 2014 #76

There are lots of terrible math teachers. Manifestor_of_Light Jan 2014 #78

the person with the chem degree ought to have been able to help you in algebra 2 dsc Jan 2014 #104

Education is about being better than you are. defacto7 Jan 2014 #79

Dumb em down Warpy Jan 2014 #81

My kids live in Texas and are required to take calculus in high school (nt) FreeJoe Jan 2014 #83

Really? What high school? SheilaT Jan 2014 #85

It's more of a family requirement than a state requirement FreeJoe Jan 2014 #107

That's rather different from SheilaT Jan 2014 #116

I attended Texas schools in the 1950's dem in texas Jan 2014 #89

Algebra II is integral in understanding higher levels of math Harmony Blue Jan 2014 #90

why does it have to forced on students is what I don't understand. Maybe instead of liberal_at_heart Jan 2014 #91

Ordinary high school math is dangerous to the Powers-That-Be. hunter Jan 2014 #93

Math = revolution... JCMach1 Jan 2014 #111

Yeah, Turbineguy Jan 2014 #94

Most colleges and Uni's have to remediate students even with the requirement... it is not unusual JCMach1 Jan 2014 #96

thank you. There is a bigger problem here than requirements. liberal_at_heart Jan 2014 #98

Exactly, when has anyone focused on how algebra is taught? JCMach1 Jan 2014 #110

I wish I could unlock my son's brain. He is autistic and has a hard time with math at school. liberal_at_heart Jan 2014 #112

Lack of math skills furthers the one percent goal of preventing the working class kairos12 Jan 2014 #97

Let me also add that Algebra II Harmony Blue Jan 2014 #114

For all of those who are supporting the idea SheilaT Jan 2014 #117

the problem with this is that there is no alternative for students that learn liberal_at_heart Jan 2014 #118

That is a very important point. SheilaT Jan 2014 #120

That sounds like a good idea. liberal_at_heart Jan 2014 #121

Who has time for math homework these days, Quantess Jan 2014 #124

Blue collar workers use higher level math in their jobs than white collar. lumberjack_jeff Jan 2014 #127

As backwoods gooberish gay-hating ignoramuses Texans are rustydog Jan 2014 #130

IF math were well taught in our schools, students would be put on a path tblue37 Jan 2014 #134

+1 liberal_at_heart Jan 2014 #136

As a former math teacher, I have very mixed feelings about this. Ms. Toad Jan 2014 #138

It is not as easy as just requiring them to pass as you have stated so well. liberal_at_heart Jan 2014 #139

Want an example of how our schools are failing our children? My son got a C- in science this liberal_at_heart Jan 2014 #141

Americans don't need math pokerfan Jan 2014 #142