General Discussion

bhikkhu

(10,789 posts)

99. But what is excessive? I don't think its safe to assume the future will be dumb

Reply to Sen. Walter Sobchak (Reply #41)

Sat Jan 25, 2014, 08:54 PM

Jan 2014

and that kids can safely ignore math, because that won't be as necessary. I tend to agree with the gradual ramping up of math standards, as the world has gradually ramped up its application of mathematics.

As I tell my kids - there is very little in our environment that hasn't been studied, engineered, optimized, or otherwise manipulated by math. Living in a world surrounded by things one doesn't (or can't) understand is not something I would recommend as a policy.

When I was in school we stopped at Algebra 1. I retook it in college some time later, where it was much more involved, then went on to learn geometry on my own. When my older daughter went into trigonometry I learned it from her textbook so that I could help her with the homework. What I found is that all those were fairly easy, as I have a problem-solving oriented job and use numbers and geometry regularly.

Its hard to say what is excessive, but I don't think we're there yet; kids can learn if they are taught properly, and it will be to their long-term benefit.

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Trend-starting Texas drops algebra II mandate [View all] jsr Jan 2014 OP

I have never used geometry in my life B2G Jan 2014 #1

Hmm, carpenters use it all the time. Just sayin'. We use it more than we think. SharonAnn Jan 2014 #2

Then teach it as part of a vocational trade B2G Jan 2014 #4

Back when I was in school, we learned basic math early on. MineralMan Jan 2014 #8

They do, but many of them require advance math courses B2G Jan 2014 #10

Well, I'm sorry they had difficulty with math. MineralMan Jan 2014 #35

Algebra II is not "advanced math" more than reading "Of Mice and Men" is advanced MillennialDem Jan 2014 #36

Math is a "doing" discipline Aerows Jan 2014 #47

that sounds like an awful lot hfojvt Jan 2014 #49

necessary training for logical and rational thinking. Deep13 Jan 2014 #27

That is just adding and subtracting sammytko Jan 2014 #84

Carpenters do use practical geometry, but they never have to spend hours writing proofs OmahaBlueDog Jan 2014 #9

Geometry proofs are easy as pie. And Algebra II has zero or rarely any proofs. MillennialDem Jan 2014 #38

I'm glad they were easy for you. For many others among us -- not so much. (nt) OmahaBlueDog Jan 2014 #40

I can see the point of greatly reducing or eliminating the proofs in Geometry, but I'm sick MillennialDem Jan 2014 #66

Everyone thinks they suck at math but excel at writing...it's usually the opposite alcibiades_mystery Jan 2014 #95

And machinists. ret5hd Jan 2014 #3

I use it all the time, and so do a lot of other people. MineralMan Jan 2014 #5

Trig is very practical, but it doesn't get taught in HS now until pre-calculus OmahaBlueDog Jan 2014 #11

Really? Hmm. In 1962, I took an entire year of trig in HS. MineralMan Jan 2014 #15

that is just plain not true dsc Jan 2014 #75

OBkid1 just took pre-calc. It was her first serious exposure to trig. OmahaBlueDog Jan 2014 #106

I am teaching Math 3 this semester (it is the replacement for alg 2) and dsc Jan 2014 #109

I'm not doubting what you're saying. Maybe it's a state by state variance? OmahaBlueDog Jan 2014 #119

It will be coming your way soon dsc Jan 2014 #123

Calculus was rough but I was glad to have taken it abelenkpe Jan 2014 #17

Same here ... had to take many semesters of it in college etherealtruth Jan 2014 #29

Um, really? abelenkpe Jan 2014 #12

I'm an IT project manager B2G Jan 2014 #19

My younger brother couldn't even pass basic Algebra abelenkpe Jan 2014 #24

I would have benefitted far more B2G Jan 2014 #26

There are two parts to geometry. Igel Jan 2014 #86

I bet you have, and don't even realize it. X_Digger Jan 2014 #16

Yes, see my post above B2G Jan 2014 #20

No fair changing the premise in mid-stream :P X_Digger Jan 2014 #30

Sorry, I got carried away. B2G Jan 2014 #31

Ever hung wallpaper? pnwmom Jan 2014 #62

Geometry is not math it is logic. Downwinder Jan 2014 #21

I suspect you have. WinkyDink Jan 2014 #23

People lived for hundreds of thousands of years without electricity or indoor plumbing struggle4progress Jan 2014 #33

Um, OK. nt B2G Jan 2014 #34

Geometry Sgent Jan 2014 #42

I used it just a couple of days ago DrDan Jan 2014 #45

If you can identify kids who won't, sure. Donald Ian Rankin Jan 2014 #52

you do use it, you just don't know it. hollysmom Jan 2014 #55

My response is the opposite. Igel Jan 2014 #87

that doesn't make any sense hollysmom Jan 2014 #100

Should they require logic instead? Or a class teaching spatial skills? pnwmom Jan 2014 #60

You use it every time you open your eyes. defacto7 Jan 2014 #77

I use it every day at work as a mechanic bhikkhu Jan 2014 #80

You use it all the time when you drive, park your car, manage furniture placement in bluestate10 Jan 2014 #113

You use it abstractly pretty much every waking second of your life. Gravitycollapse Jan 2014 #115

I use geometry a lot... a la izquierda Jan 2014 #122

I haven't played dodgeball since gym - they should dump that too. tenderfoot Jan 2014 #126

This message was self-deleted by its author lumberjack_jeff Jan 2014 #128

Nor logic, apparently. RetroLounge Jan 2014 #133

Geometry is not a required for graduation Ms. Toad Jan 2014 #137

Yes, you have. Hissyspit Jan 2014 #140

I don't know if my autistic son will be able to make it to algebra II or not but I like the idea liberal_at_heart Jan 2014 #6

Exactly. B2G Jan 2014 #13

"They" (ALEC, Koch Brothers, religious idiocy, etc.) are slowly but surely dumbing us down and ChisolmTrailDem Jan 2014 #7

Burger flipping is the mainstay of Perry's economy. onehandle Jan 2014 #14

Just teach 'em to say HappyMe Jan 2014 #18

You could say it in Old English or French and you still wouldn't need to use Algebra II. Algebra I WinkyDink Jan 2014 #82

Ok, I had up to and including Calculus. I became an English teacher. Alg II? Yeah, never used. WinkyDink Jan 2014 #22

That's awful. Our school requires four credits of math to graduate (4 years). MissB Jan 2014 #25

What this country needs are people who know even less math than they do now. nt Deep13 Jan 2014 #28

exactly - we need to dumb down the population DrDan Jan 2014 #46

Whether you ever use such courses in life or in a job ... frazzled Jan 2014 #32

The problem is that they teach math as isolated problems, that have little to do with each other. RC Jan 2014 #37

Excellent observation. nt B2G Jan 2014 #39

That's a well-known problem among math teachers Nevernose Jan 2014 #43

The math teachers are required to teach math as word problems. RC Jan 2014 #50

I very much prefer word problems. Always have. lumberjack_jeff Jan 2014 #129

Me, too Nevernose Jan 2014 #135

You just reminded me of one of our HS physics classes PADemD Jan 2014 #51

I would find something like that interesting. RC Jan 2014 #56

Some people never have to use the ideas of force, work, and power. Igel Jan 2014 #88

Word problems try but often fail. MindPilot Jan 2014 #70

Bingo! RC Jan 2014 #73

Now the student understands that objects flying into the wind go slower. lumberjack_jeff Jan 2014 #131

The answer is Satan. (NT) Heywood J Jan 2014 #125

Pseudonym for Conservative? RC Jan 2014 #132

Excessive math requirements are just setting otherwise successful students up to fail Sen. Walter Sobchak Jan 2014 #41

That's also true for plenty of other subjects, like English for example Fumesucker Jan 2014 #48

People can bullshit English by using the words journey and struggle enough Sen. Walter Sobchak Jan 2014 #57

Literally minded people who are good at math and science often aren't very good bullshitters Fumesucker Jan 2014 #61

Then they are wasting their time as well exboyfil Jan 2014 #92

But what is excessive? I don't think its safe to assume the future will be dumb bhikkhu Jan 2014 #99

I'm not saying it shouldn't be taught, Sen. Walter Sobchak Jan 2014 #101

you know what would be more useful than algebra II? Personal finance. liberal_at_heart Jan 2014 #102

No kidding, I used to work on bankruptcies Sen. Walter Sobchak Jan 2014 #103

Sigh shenmue Jan 2014 #44

And a big ol' chunk of DU rallies 'round the notion. Codeine Jan 2014 #54

Yup. Igel Jan 2014 #105

Replace it with Creationism HockeyMom Jan 2014 #53

Algebra is boring enough without adding a II to it. Tierra_y_Libertad Jan 2014 #58

Every single subject has students who think it's either boring as hell or impossibly abstruse Fumesucker Jan 2014 #59

exactly - why are schools requiring students to take the "boring" subjects DrDan Jan 2014 #63

Indeed. Tierra_y_Libertad Jan 2014 #64

For you maybe. Reading novels are boring to me. Math and reading scientific and technical MillennialDem Jan 2014 #67

On the contrary. The mathematics of semigroups can be very interesting. mathematic Jan 2014 #68

Yeah, but what about people who try really hard to understand algebra... Dr. Strange Jan 2014 #108

Let's just give everyone a coloring book and a diploma. ForgoTheConsequence Jan 2014 #65

First they cut the music and art swilton Jan 2014 #69

Well if we cut math.... ForgoTheConsequence Jan 2014 #71

Thread win! ^^^^ nt ChisolmTrailDem Jan 2014 #74

Without math you cannot understand a lot of problems sadoldgirl Jan 2014 #72

Let's continue to water down education nadinbrzezinski Jan 2014 #76

There are lots of terrible math teachers. Manifestor_of_Light Jan 2014 #78

the person with the chem degree ought to have been able to help you in algebra 2 dsc Jan 2014 #104

Education is about being better than you are. defacto7 Jan 2014 #79

Dumb em down Warpy Jan 2014 #81

My kids live in Texas and are required to take calculus in high school (nt) FreeJoe Jan 2014 #83

Really? What high school? SheilaT Jan 2014 #85

It's more of a family requirement than a state requirement FreeJoe Jan 2014 #107

That's rather different from SheilaT Jan 2014 #116

I attended Texas schools in the 1950's dem in texas Jan 2014 #89

Algebra II is integral in understanding higher levels of math Harmony Blue Jan 2014 #90

why does it have to forced on students is what I don't understand. Maybe instead of liberal_at_heart Jan 2014 #91

Ordinary high school math is dangerous to the Powers-That-Be. hunter Jan 2014 #93

Math = revolution... JCMach1 Jan 2014 #111

Yeah, Turbineguy Jan 2014 #94

Most colleges and Uni's have to remediate students even with the requirement... it is not unusual JCMach1 Jan 2014 #96

thank you. There is a bigger problem here than requirements. liberal_at_heart Jan 2014 #98

Exactly, when has anyone focused on how algebra is taught? JCMach1 Jan 2014 #110

I wish I could unlock my son's brain. He is autistic and has a hard time with math at school. liberal_at_heart Jan 2014 #112

Lack of math skills furthers the one percent goal of preventing the working class kairos12 Jan 2014 #97

Let me also add that Algebra II Harmony Blue Jan 2014 #114

For all of those who are supporting the idea SheilaT Jan 2014 #117

the problem with this is that there is no alternative for students that learn liberal_at_heart Jan 2014 #118

That is a very important point. SheilaT Jan 2014 #120

That sounds like a good idea. liberal_at_heart Jan 2014 #121

Who has time for math homework these days, Quantess Jan 2014 #124

Blue collar workers use higher level math in their jobs than white collar. lumberjack_jeff Jan 2014 #127

As backwoods gooberish gay-hating ignoramuses Texans are rustydog Jan 2014 #130

IF math were well taught in our schools, students would be put on a path tblue37 Jan 2014 #134

+1 liberal_at_heart Jan 2014 #136

As a former math teacher, I have very mixed feelings about this. Ms. Toad Jan 2014 #138

It is not as easy as just requiring them to pass as you have stated so well. liberal_at_heart Jan 2014 #139

Want an example of how our schools are failing our children? My son got a C- in science this liberal_at_heart Jan 2014 #141

Americans don't need math pokerfan Jan 2014 #142