General Discussion

Bjorn Against

(12,041 posts)

73. The big problem is that many gun advocates encourage "self defense" shootings

Mon Jan 27, 2014, 10:59 AM

Jan 2014

We even see it right here on this site, there are people here who justify all kinds of "self defense" shootings even when it does not look like there was any need to use a gun in the situation. The sick assholes who defended George Zimmerman are a prime example of this.

There are some people who actually cheer these shootings when they happen, I see very little from gun nuts educating people on how to avoid using a gun for self defense instead it seems like they are focused on what they think people should be able to get by with.

There are rare circumstances in which deadly force is justified, but they are rare. It is an extremely dangerous mentality that tries to claim self defense in cases where it is not at all justified, but the NRA and their gun nut friends have worked hard to justify "self defense" in cases like the Zimmerman case which were clearly murder in the eyes of all reasonable people.

This is why gun nuts should not be allowed to own guns.

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Gun Nut Kills Two Innocent Neighbors On Their Own Property [View all] onehandle Jan 2014 OP

Gun nuts have tried to stretch the definition of "self defense" to absurd proportions Bjorn Against Jan 2014 #1

This is the problem with how faux news and all the right-wing talkers fill up these people's minds gtar100 Jan 2014 #7

Exactly, they beat the drums of delusions and paranoia non-stop. It's enough to drive RKP5637 Jan 2014 #36

I so agree with you so ! Tumbulu Jan 2014 #213

Hey cut the guy some slack! AAO Jan 2014 #157

Right. And people that trespass are up to no good. Enthusiast Jan 2014 #176

Especially if they trespass on their own land! AAO Jan 2014 #177

Just don't drink the water and don't do a bunch of other stuff or you might get shot. Enthusiast Jan 2014 #179

WV is another state I won't be setting foot in anytime soon. AlbertCat Jan 2014 #194

I've written some states off my list to ever be in. I've been in most of the US and RKP5637 Jan 2014 #206

I had some relatives that moved there. The people in the remote area RKP5637 Jan 2014 #202

Just judging by the pics, shooter looks white, victims are black. tblue Jan 2014 #207

I thought that as well nt Tumbulu Jan 2014 #214

And the state of the law. sulphurdunn Jan 2014 #221

Of course. AtheistCrusader Jan 2014 #67

The big problem is that many gun advocates encourage "self defense" shootings Bjorn Against Jan 2014 #73

But, how to tell the difference, before hand? AtheistCrusader Jan 2014 #82

You just pointed out the two main reasons people want very strict gun control BrotherIvan Jan 2014 #137

I don't think he was scared at all. AtheistCrusader Jan 2014 #140

I would agree with everything you said in this post except the word "adequate" Bjorn Against Jan 2014 #141

I am a strong proponent of those as a workable solution to most of our problems with AtheistCrusader Jan 2014 #149

I think stand your ground laws need to go away and concealed carry needs to be more limited Bjorn Against Jan 2014 #151

I Think a Man Should Be Able to bkanderson76 Jan 2014 #161

Stand by his virtue? What the hell does that even mean? Bjorn Against Jan 2014 #169

Notice that this billh58 Jan 2014 #186

I know, it is pathetic isn't it? Bjorn Against Jan 2014 #189

I guess the gun makes the man, the bigger the gun, the bigger the man, the bigger his dick. RKP5637 Jan 2014 #209

I had a very good discussion on another thread BrotherIvan Jan 2014 #187

Shooter allegedly used a scoped rifle to fire the shots out a window of his home. tblue Jan 2014 #208

In Florida you do not have to do anything except pull your gun and kill. jtuck004 Jan 2014 #158

But you should still have to show reasonable fear. AtheistCrusader Jan 2014 #162

No suggesting he did, that's just the law. But it doesn't specify that you have to be or not jtuck004 Jan 2014 #171

The killing does need to be justified. ManiacJoe Jan 2014 #170

What doesn't matter are the opinions. The person will be tried, or jtuck004 Jan 2014 #173

Well, that is one opinion. ManiacJoe Jan 2014 #174

Ditto lsewpershad Jan 2014 #79

"Give a small boy a hammer, and he will find that everything he encounters needs pounding." Major Nikon Jan 2014 #90

Just following the example set by Law Enforcement FreakinDJ Jan 2014 #115

I agree that law enforcement stretches that definition as well Bjorn Against Jan 2014 #118

I'm pretty sure even the shooter knew they weren't "tresspassing" Blue_Tires Jan 2014 #184

This "should" go on national news.... FarPoint Jan 2014 #2

Sadly, it will get buried and forgotten along with the victims, no lessons learned, and the RKP5637 Jan 2014 #42

Maybe we can help keep it out front in the news by forwarding the story to FB, TWitter, and other kelliekat44 Jan 2014 #48

Definitely! On another note, I just heard a statistic - no links, that every hour of the RKP5637 Jan 2014 #52

Back in school in the early 80s, it was pretty normal to see rifles in truck gunracks in the school 7962 Jan 2014 #84

Yep, much as when I grew up, hunters had guns with them, racks in the truck, etc. I can't RKP5637 Jan 2014 #98

gun culture has changed hollowdweller Jan 2014 #200

Well said, agree so much! n/t RKP5637 Jan 2014 #201

how many of these ignorant gun humpers know they're not allowed to kill geek tragedy Jan 2014 #3

Be careful Capt. Obvious Jan 2014 #4

And these news stories too seveneyes Jan 2014 #19

Feel free to start threads for those stories Capt. Obvious Jan 2014 #23

Yes, isn't it disgusting how many deaths guns cause? Bjorn Against Jan 2014 #26

This shooter would have likely failed any gun ownership test seveneyes Jan 2014 #27

Well then they need to start administering these tests so people like him can't get guns Bjorn Against Jan 2014 #28

Agree 100 percent seveneyes Jan 2014 #40

Same here, as demonstrated over and over again, the US is full of wackos that should RKP5637 Jan 2014 #46

Message auto-removed Name removed Jan 2014 #68

It's a very good question. Often, I think, a lot of people are on the edge for RKP5637 Jan 2014 #95

Throughout most of the 20th century the law permitted the use of deadly force Swede Atlanta Jan 2014 #5

What a gun humping wacko, I hope he never sees the daylight of freedom again. Rex Jan 2014 #6

They have a 'reason'. Same reason why they hunt and kill animals. they like to bonniebgood Jan 2014 #13

Power. The power of life and death over another living being. magical thyme Jan 2014 #32

Quite true IMO. I think if pschological profiles were done for some cases it is clearly RKP5637 Jan 2014 #50

Because it's a form of sexual excitement for them, seriously. n/t RKP5637 Jan 2014 #47

SMH Mr Dixon Jan 2014 #8

You have to be really deranged get the red out Jan 2014 #9

That's what it's about. Selling more guns kcr Jan 2014 #14

Yes and it is devistating get the red out Jan 2014 #70

Exactly. It is not bloodlust or penis compensation or whatever driving this, it is money Tom Ripley Jan 2014 #120

The NRA is indeed a big part of the problem. They promote guns as a cure, A Simple Game Jan 2014 #22

There are a few million billh58 Jan 2014 #10

The Zimmerman case has made this insane concept "acceptable". FarPoint Jan 2014 #15

I was thinking that earlier today, it's getting so murder is no big deal, I even notice it RKP5637 Jan 2014 #210

Just another wonderful day in Gun World. TheCowsCameHome Jan 2014 #11

'Merica! Dash87 Jan 2014 #12

Just across the river exboyfil Jan 2014 #16

Yes, but in this case no property crime had been committed. PotatoChip Jan 2014 #41

I am not trying to justify it exboyfil Jan 2014 #113

"not sure he could have lived with the guilt." geek tragedy Jan 2014 #45

Not necessarily, all you gotta do is claim they threatened you. Ask Zimmerman how it works. Hoyt Jan 2014 #57

Ohio at the time he might have gotten away with it exboyfil Jan 2014 #114

Stupid shooter but how is it more news worthy than the average weekend in Chicago? seveneyes Jan 2014 #17

Because This Was A Person... Laxman Jan 2014 #21

+1000. Thanks. (nt) Paladin Jan 2014 #24

Thank you - even criminals know it is a crime .This guy thought he had the right to kill no ?s asked lunasun Jan 2014 #31

I'll 3rd that "thanks" RVN VET Jan 2014 #61

Laxman... i've been seeing you around here lately druidity33 Jan 2014 #166

Thank You... Laxman Jan 2014 #175

Excellent post. -n/t Zenlitened Jan 2014 #188

Right. The Chicago shooters, if they admitted to their killing, would be sent to jail, Dark n Stormy Knight Jan 2014 #192

It's A Little More Than That... Laxman Jan 2014 #195

Or course. I thought I acknowledged that by replying to your post noting that starting with Dark n Stormy Knight Jan 2014 #197

It's not. They are all equally bad Renew Deal Jan 2014 #63

Not more news worthy ... gun violence in the US is out of control etherealtruth Jan 2014 #160

On a personal level, one incident is way out of control seveneyes Jan 2014 #165

I consider the threat as a danger to self and others etherealtruth Jan 2014 #167

The NRA talking point "suicides don't count" billh58 Jan 2014 #182

ALL gun deaths involve tragedy etherealtruth Jan 2014 #183

In a city of several million people... awoke_in_2003 Jan 2014 #190

Nothing to see here folks, GUNS DON'T KILL PEOPLE!! Heather MC Jan 2014 #18

Another "responsible" gun nut.............er owner. joshdawg Jan 2014 #20

Is it just me, or does anyone else feel like Aldo Leopold Jan 2014 #25

Another day, another shooting. . . B Calm Jan 2014 #34

I've become numb to it and that alone terrifies me. catbyte Jan 2014 #39

I don't understand how anyone can occupy this headspace Sen. Walter Sobchak Jan 2014 #29

Why have guns if you can't kill people, er, defend yourself, with them? Gungeoneer logic. nt valerief Jan 2014 #30

It's way beyond owning a pistol for target shooting or a rifle for hunting. mountain grammy Jan 2014 #33

Gun Nuttery (R) lives and breathes FEAR Berlum Jan 2014 #35

That's the entire reason Lex Jan 2014 #44

This happened in West Virginia? SCVDem Jan 2014 #37

Nobody's going to jump in with something about "if existing gun laws had been enforced....." ????? groundloop Jan 2014 #38

WTF 'gave no warning, and just pulled the trigger'. lunasun Jan 2014 #43

I was afraid to take a letter I found on the ground to a person that lives down the street from us. Rozlee Jan 2014 #49

I often feel the same way. I told one of my friends recently when real estate hunting, we have to RKP5637 Jan 2014 #211

Fuckin' West Virginia, man. Fucking Hatfields and McCoys mindset. Aristus Jan 2014 #51

Not just WV. There is a gun nut with this potential in every neighborhood in America. nt onehandle Jan 2014 #55

I know people get PO'ed on DU if one mentions states/regions, but there are many RKP5637 Jan 2014 #59

I agree, I think many fail to recognize the difference between judging individuals and a region Bjorn Against Jan 2014 #69

Right and these same folks have enough sense to not walk around the west side of chitown at night lunasun Jan 2014 #97

Message auto-removed Name removed Jan 2014 #74

Don't get on my case. Aristus Jan 2014 #76

Post removed Post removed Jan 2014 #91

This is really out of line - TBF Jan 2014 #148

Yep. Vashta Nerada Jan 2014 #80

and rightfully so DrDan Jan 2014 #111

Your post is offensive theHandpuppet Jan 2014 #139

I agree. Poster may want to look at the stats for PotatoChip Jan 2014 #147

Perhaps a few statistics might burst your bubble of bigotry theHandpuppet Jan 2014 #142

There were signs all over for the Hatfields and McCoys when I was down that way. In_The_Wind Jan 2014 #144

It's the ATV trail system in that part of WV. ileus Jan 2014 #193

On Mon Jan 27, 2014, 10:41 AM an alert was sent on the following post: In_The_Wind Jan 2014 #152

Since I was the poster who alerted theHandpuppet Jan 2014 #153

This message was self-deleted by its author PotatoChip Jan 2014 #154

... PotatoChip Jan 2014 #155

Thanks, Potato Chip theHandpuppet Jan 2014 #156

they love their guns maindawg Jan 2014 #53

There Is A Long List... Laxman Jan 2014 #54

Good points.... and as for the 2nd amendment, what 'well regulated militia'.... groundloop Jan 2014 #58

a semiauto on every streetcorner doesn't prevent a police state, it's the defintion of police state MisterP Jan 2014 #181

Even more cowardly than most gun lugging cowards. Shot them with a scope. CBGLuthier Jan 2014 #56

Yup ... it's despicable ... brett_jv Jan 2014 #71

No way he can say 'self defense" if thats the case. He's obviously got a screw loose. nt 7962 Jan 2014 #86

Finally got chance to use that scope!- a real sick subculture that encourages paranoid cowards lunasun Jan 2014 #101

Just another responsible gun owner... riderinthestorm Jan 2014 #60

Enforce the 2nd amendment. toby jo Jan 2014 #62

I must have missed the phrase "single shot rifle " Lost_Count Jan 2014 #105

Oh, you didn't miss it... awoke_in_2003 Jan 2014 #191

yep, well equiped Duckhunter935 Jan 2014 #204

I saw it and then continued to read... Lost_Count Jan 2014 #205

Since you are, evidently, wiser than I... awoke_in_2003 Jan 2014 #225

Fun fact... Lost_Count Jan 2014 #226

Gun nuts and the nra are trying to redefine what murder is. nt Javaman Jan 2014 #64

Used to have a cabin in WV packman Jan 2014 #65

Wouldn't be surprised at all if Mr. Black was fully aware of those happenings ... brett_jv Jan 2014 #77

"Justice served" PotatoChip Jan 2014 #85

Of course packman Jan 2014 #100

Thanks for clarifying. (nt) PotatoChip Jan 2014 #102

may want to edit the post to clarify. nt geek tragedy Jan 2014 #125

Bet you $5 that shooter has a head full of Fox News paranoia. Marr Jan 2014 #66

I would not take that bet ... in fact I would bet $100 you're right ... brett_jv Jan 2014 #72

Shot for "trespassing"? F*ck that. This is murder in cold blood; the shooter LeftinOH Jan 2014 #75

Banz teh Gunz!1!!! aikoaiko Jan 2014 #78

A tragic killing happens and your response is to mock the people who are upset by it Bjorn Against Jan 2014 #83

There is a lot of mocking in this thread that you have overlooked. aikoaiko Jan 2014 #88

I don't see any mocking from the OP, he posted a news story Bjorn Against Jan 2014 #89

Everyone, even target shooters, are gun nuts to Onehandle. aikoaiko Jan 2014 #92

So are you suggesting the guy who shot those people was not a gun nut? Bjorn Against Jan 2014 #93

I don't know what he was except an apparent murderer. aikoaiko Jan 2014 #94

He was a nutty guy with a gun who thought it was OK to shoot two people that posed him no threat Bjorn Against Jan 2014 #96

If he didn't have a gun billh58 Jan 2014 #103

...or accidentally run them over with his car. Iggo Jan 2014 #108

or run them over with his car. aikoaiko Jan 2014 #109

It should be noted the person you are responding to is host of GD voting to lock this thread. Hassin Bin Sober Jan 2014 #110

It is quite interesting that the person who responded to these deaths with mockery is a host Bjorn Against Jan 2014 #112

I think the mockery pintobean Jan 2014 #117

I never said he shouldn't participate, I said he should not mock people upset over a tragedy Bjorn Against Jan 2014 #122

Yep. DU3 is about transparency. Nothing in HOSTS is confidential or off limits to discuss. Hassin Bin Sober Jan 2014 #138

I'm sure I'm not the only one who was wondering Capt. Obvious Jan 2014 #143

No fighting about this OP. aikoaiko Jan 2014 #145

I would say it's interesting and out of the ordinary. pintobean Jan 2014 #150

"not being big news" RetroLounge Jan 2014 #203

Less or more concern regarding the victims than you yourself have expressed LanternWaste Jan 2014 #131

BTW, if you think this helps your pro-gun stance, TheCowsCameHome Jan 2014 #99

The pro-gun billh58 Jan 2014 #106

you like to dish it out. enjoy it yourself. aikoaiko Jan 2014 #107

Now there is exactly what I expected from you RetroLounge Jan 2014 #116

You should because your use of Moar Gunz inspired it. aikoaiko Jan 2014 #121

Glad to help. RetroLounge Jan 2014 #123

Two people are dead and you find it just hilarious that you can mock the people upset over it Bjorn Against Jan 2014 #124

RetroLounge doesn't appear to be upset. pintobean Jan 2014 #126

I don't think you speak for Retro Lounge Bjorn Against Jan 2014 #127

I don't think I do either. pintobean Jan 2014 #130

Speaking my opinion does not make me a thought enforcer Bjorn Against Jan 2014 #133

The puke emoticon was directed at aikoaiko, not the OP. pintobean Jan 2014 #134

I know that, my post was also directed at aikoaiko Bjorn Against Jan 2014 #136

Post removed Post removed Jan 2014 #81

NRA...Your Gun Righs SUCK Tippy Jan 2014 #87

An armed society is a polite society. Iggo Jan 2014 #104

Just more porn to the gun humpers RetroLounge Jan 2014 #119

Disgusting. Nt ecstatic Jan 2014 #128

Country road, take me home to the place I belong... dchill Jan 2014 #129

I wonder if that idiot was trying to take ownership of that shed by adverse possession? Baitball Blogger Jan 2014 #132

This message was self-deleted by its author Cali_Democrat Jan 2014 #135

At least his Second Amendment rights weren't violated! Cali_Democrat Jan 2014 #146

even if it was his property, he felt deadly force was necessary? Liberal_in_LA Jan 2014 #159

Correction: RACIST Gun Nut Kills Two Innocent Neighbors On Their Own Property rocktivity Jan 2014 #163

In my experience, that goes without saying. But yes, wow. Hassin Bin Sober Jan 2014 #168

The killer has been charged with 2 counts of first degree murder. raccoon Jan 2014 #164

Sad, but not surprised TNNurse Jan 2014 #172

Rodney Bruce Black's actions are indefensible. Enthusiast Jan 2014 #178

I'm sure FOX will give this incident equal coverage to what they gave "the knockout game" Adenoid_Hynkel Jan 2014 #180

Wha's the big deal. Mr. Black just Stood His Ground Doctor_J Jan 2014 #185

This is similar to the Henry Louis Gates episode hollowdweller Jan 2014 #196

Maybe Ted Nugent will do a benefit concert for the shooter mdbl Jan 2014 #198

And the NRA will set up a convention down the road like they did for Columbine. nt onehandle Jan 2014 #199

God this is terrible Catherine Vincent Jan 2014 #212

The new owner was dreaming of the perfect placement of a new home for his family .... ChisolmTrailDem Jan 2014 #217

As a kid, I almost for sure would have been killed for a Halloween prank or something like that brewens Jan 2014 #215

Cowardly assassin. jsr Jan 2014 #216

Hey gun degenerates, this one's for you! ChisolmTrailDem Jan 2014 #218

And another thing: OldRedneck Jan 2014 #219

I grew up in the country, I live in the country, now. MsPithy Jan 2014 #220

Same here, but down the road we do have one old cranky B Calm Jan 2014 #222

rescind the 2nd amendment, now! n/t PowerToThePeople Jan 2014 #223

It's time to do something SmittynMo Jan 2014 #224