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The Straight Story

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53. Gee, how did those don't shoot people laws happen?

Mon Jan 27, 2014, 04:56 PM

Jan 2014

And even with all the laws on alcohol it is still outdoing everything else when it comes to harming kids.

Any new proposals to help out? Like laws that all alcohol has to be locked up, can only be sold with a permit after a check and you can only own so much at one time? Special tracers in each bottle so if someone drinks we can trace it back to where they bought it from? Police to look into each home to test and make sure it is properly stored? Banning it?

More laws is not the answer, getting to the root of the why's of people doing such things would be a good place to start.

And betting you would find alcohol involved in more shootings than some would like to admit, which goes back to causes (since one alters the mind and the other does not).

It's not about fixing, it is about controlling others when less than one percent of people with guns does something bad. It is feel good measures that don't address the problems but make people think they are doing something.

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New Study Details Gun Injuries Suffered by Children [View all] Warren Stupidity Jan 2014 OP

du rec. xchrom Jan 2014 #1

Under 20 years old equals child? hack89 Jan 2014 #2

And that is the talking point. nt. Warren Stupidity Jan 2014 #3

Do you really consider 19 year olds children? Nt hack89 Jan 2014 #5

uh, yes, so does the medical database used. Warren Stupidity Jan 2014 #14

Did you look closely at the charts in that study? hack89 Jan 2014 #21

Screen grab here pintobean Jan 2014 #33

The testosterone really kicks in at 15-19 doesn't it? alittlelark Jan 2014 #173

So it's about numbers? How many child injuries and/or deaths would be acceptable then? 10, 20, 100? sabrina 1 Jan 2014 #175

So zero is the standard? hack89 Jan 2014 #183

The report is titled "Hospitalizations Due to Firearm Injuries in Children and Adolescents" struggle4progress Jan 2014 #34

Then perhaps the OP title should be changed? nt hack89 Jan 2014 #37

Perhaps the editors of the publication cited should be informed? Warren Stupidity Jan 2014 #191

I see now that it was VOA that wrote the misleading headline. nt hack89 Jan 2014 #192

Yep. Let's be sure to find a study of gun violence victims kcr Jan 2014 #6

How about drawing the line at 18? hack89 Jan 2014 #15

Because there's such a huge difference between 18 and 19. kcr Jan 2014 #18

Look at the figures in the study hack89 Jan 2014 #23

One whole year? kcr Jan 2014 #25

Well, never mind then. kcr Jan 2014 #4

I understand the desire to pad the numbers hack89 Jan 2014 #8

Pad the numbers? kcr Jan 2014 #13

Padding the numbers is arguing that there is a massive cliff jeff47 Jan 2014 #27

Funny you should mention that hack89 Jan 2014 #35

Funny you should use those statistics jeff47 Jan 2014 #38

They chose that upper limit to incorporate as much criminal activity as they could hack89 Jan 2014 #40

Again, look at your study. jeff47 Jan 2014 #42

I would draw the line at 15 hack89 Jan 2014 #45

Which is why you entered the thread demanding the line be drawn at 18. jeff47 Jan 2014 #52

As the conversation went on, I gave it more thought hack89 Jan 2014 #71

move the line to wherever it favors gun humpers Skittles Jan 2014 #177

Why not draw the line at 12? 5? kcr Jan 2014 #61

Well, golly, let's just draw the line at 40! Lizzie Poppet Jan 2014 #65

I know!!!! Gal Dern it! Why even discuss it at al!!!!!!!!111!!!1!!!1111 kcr Jan 2014 #74

Discuss? Lizzie Poppet Jan 2014 #77

That is an impossible task. kcr Jan 2014 #79

Don't give 'em any ideas. Eleanors38 Jan 2014 #132

Look at the study hack89 Jan 2014 #69

You're right. It's the gang bangers kcr Jan 2014 #78

No - Two different problems. Two different solutions. That's all. nt hack89 Jan 2014 #88

So explain to me how leaving them out of the numbers is supposed to help? kcr Jan 2014 #90

You have to separate the issues to solve the issues hack89 Jan 2014 #97

Why? Because you say they are? kcr Jan 2014 #99

Criminal involvement is a huge issue after 15 hack89 Jan 2014 #103

I'm not ignoring anything kcr Jan 2014 #108

They don't need to be eliminated hack89 Jan 2014 #111

But I don't accept that. And how have you changed your view? kcr Jan 2014 #113

Because there is a massive jump in gun injuries after 15 hack89 Jan 2014 #114

Um. Dead kids aren't irrelevant? kcr Jan 2014 #117

We are talking about causes. Stop evading the question hack89 Jan 2014 #119

Look, I know what you're trying to say. kcr Jan 2014 #118

Ok. Nt hack89 Jan 2014 #120

If they had they courage of their convictions, they would come and say it: Warren Stupidity Jan 2014 #124

Who is "they," Warren? Race card's out early, isn't it? Eleanors38 Jan 2014 #129

This message was self-deleted by its author kcr Jan 2014 #133

That would be those who want to remove the "gang bangers" from the numbers kcr Jan 2014 #137

So, name them. I'll wait. Eleanors38 Jan 2014 #146

What's wrong, your monitor broken? kcr Jan 2014 #147

You're saying Hack is a racist? Eleanors38 Jan 2014 #156

Racism is certainly one explanation for thinking "gang bangers" don't count kcr Jan 2014 #161

So you are accusing Hack of racism? Eleanors38 Jan 2014 #163

lol! kcr Jan 2014 #164

Maybe if we raised the age at which people could own guns, like 25 say, those numbers sabrina 1 Jan 2014 #176

Irrelevant to criminals hack89 Jan 2014 #184

There was no intent to help at all. The idea was to prevent any harm to gun owners. n/t A Simple Game Jan 2014 #102

I think so, too. kcr Jan 2014 #105

Sure they do... Just not as children... Lost_Count Jan 2014 #157

But they do as adolescents. n/t kcr Jan 2014 #158

I've not often seen a severe case of triple-dog dipshittery here. Scootaloo Jan 2014 #166

There is a huge leap in gun injuries at 15 hack89 Jan 2014 #182

Adults are children too.....think about the chillins ileus Jan 2014 #186

Owners should be required to keep their weapons abelenkpe Jan 2014 #7

Some of these children can legally own their own guns hack89 Jan 2014 #11

Well that is a problem. Not responsible enough to buy a beer, responsible enough to own a gun. Warren Stupidity Jan 2014 #75

So 18 year olds are children. ok .nt hack89 Jan 2014 #86

Legally yes, I am sure you realize. So case closed. anneboleyn Jan 2014 #151

Link please? hack89 Jan 2014 #185

Responsible enough to vote. Responsible enough to own a gun. nt hack89 Jan 2014 #87

Why did you draw the line at voting and guns and not include - actually, drop - alcohol? cui bono Jan 2014 #101

I support 18 as the drinking age - that is the age I grew up with. Nt hack89 Jan 2014 #106

But that's not the law now. n/t cui bono Jan 2014 #107

What is the number when you take out the people who are obviously not children (18-19)? Taitertots Jan 2014 #9

lets take apart the dataset until we get acceptable results? Warren Stupidity Jan 2014 #16

The acceptable result is the rate for children, not intentionally misrepresenting facts by.... Taitertots Jan 2014 #19

The report is titled "Hospitalizations Due to Firearm Injuries in Children and Adolescents" struggle4progress Jan 2014 #24

Do you think a 19 year old is an adolescent? Taitertots Jan 2014 #28

"... Adolescence describes the teenage years between 13 and 19 and can be considered struggle4progress Jan 2014 #32

Does the data set include 18 &19 yo soldiers? pintobean Jan 2014 #20

The data set is constructed from billing record information provided by a number of US hospitals: struggle4progress Jan 2014 #49

I guess I needed the sarcasm thingy. /nt pintobean Jan 2014 #50

Actually you might not. DragonBorn Jan 2014 #116

Where does the National Safety Council put the age? Eleanors38 Jan 2014 #130

"... there were an estimated 7391 .. hospitalizations of children and adolescents due to firearm struggle4progress Jan 2014 #22

The full report is available, you obviously didn't read it because you are misrepresenting the facts Taitertots Jan 2014 #26

"... Adolescence describes the teenage years between 13 and 19 and can be considered struggle4progress Jan 2014 #31

An 18-19 year old is not in adolescence by any legal, cultural, or reasonable standard Taitertots Jan 2014 #39

So they can drink alcohol? jeff47 Jan 2014 #43

Really? kcr Jan 2014 #46

The study is published in PEDIATRICS, the official (and peer-reviewed) journal struggle4progress Jan 2014 #51

You have no idea what you're talking about. ForgoTheConsequence Jan 2014 #58

The idea isn't to know what you are talking about, the idea is to prevent A Simple Game Jan 2014 #109

yes, the numbers aren't so bad since 18 and 19 year olds getting killed isn't as tragic I guess... CreekDog Jan 2014 #68

K & R for sad reality Lifelong Protester Jan 2014 #10

I assumed it was keeping track of those under 21.... Sheepshank Jan 2014 #12

Hate to burst your bubble, sked14 Jan 2014 #167

Perhpas re-reading would help you out a little....so no bubbles have been burst..thx Sheepshank Jan 2014 #188

Put in this context, now I understand it. sked14 Jan 2014 #189

Excerpt: struggle4progress Jan 2014 #17

These aren't children, the NRA said so. Kingofalldems Jan 2014 #29

190,000 kids injured. 5,000 killed, 535 a day affected overall The Straight Story Jan 2014 #30

Gee, how did those drinking and driving laws happen? kcr Jan 2014 #36

Think of the children!!! clffrdjk Jan 2014 #44

No, more like think of the children! kcr Jan 2014 #47

No it doesn't work that way clffrdjk Jan 2014 #56

It doesn't work that way why? Because you say so? kcr Jan 2014 #59

So you are seeing serious calls for action against swimming pool, alcohol and car accidents? clffrdjk Jan 2014 #83

Right. I guess I missed the news story kcr Jan 2014 #84

Oh so their lives are more valuable than others, their deaths mean more than others clffrdjk Jan 2014 #92

Awesome complete nonsequitur kcr Jan 2014 #94

Nonsequitur eh clffrdjk Jan 2014 #110

Your conclusion that people should be starting threads about pools kcr Jan 2014 #115

You incorrectly state my conclusion clffrdjk Jan 2014 #122

And that's a ridiculous conclusion kcr Jan 2014 #123

Your going to have to go a little deeper to prove it ridiculous. clffrdjk Jan 2014 #125

It's not about valuing one death over another kcr Jan 2014 #127

If the value was the same the reaction would be the same. clffrdjk Jan 2014 #128

No, that's overly simplistic. Millions of people die every year. kcr Jan 2014 #131

So which is it clffrdjk Jan 2014 #134

How was my last sentence explaining how you're right? kcr Jan 2014 #135

Your last sentence? I didn't say anything about your last sentence. And you know that is not my clffrdjk Jan 2014 #138

Pardon me, last post. But same thing kcr Jan 2014 #139

If you can't make the connection between what I quoted from you and my conclusion clffrdjk Jan 2014 #140

You think the things I'm saying actually agrees with you kcr Jan 2014 #141

Are you done building that straw man? clffrdjk Jan 2014 #144

Death is death. But the causes aren't the same. kcr Jan 2014 #145

You do understand that the first half of that post proves my point clffrdjk Jan 2014 #148

No, I don't kcr Jan 2014 #149

Well then goodnight. clffrdjk Jan 2014 #152

Gee, how did those don't shoot people laws happen? The Straight Story Jan 2014 #53

My point was more about your misdirection than anything kcr Jan 2014 #57

Than it was a poor choice of words on my part The Straight Story Jan 2014 #63

How many stories on the news do you see about massive violent attacks involving alcohol? kcr Jan 2014 #70

It's not an either or situation. ForgoTheConsequence Jan 2014 #54

No, the reason behind such things The Straight Story Jan 2014 #60

Oh now the "guns are just a tool" argument. ForgoTheConsequence Jan 2014 #64

Take out the gang bangers if you want to be taken seriously badtoworse Jan 2014 #41

You're right. ForgoTheConsequence Jan 2014 #76

That segment needs MORE attention, of course. Lizzie Poppet Jan 2014 #82

I don't know that you shouldn't. ForgoTheConsequence Jan 2014 #85

Me, either. Lizzie Poppet Jan 2014 #89

Exactly. "Only certain kids count" = Ridiculous. anneboleyn Jan 2014 #154

Yeah, because only people who label and compartmentalize and discard a certain subset of other cui bono Jan 2014 #104

Take the guns out of the hands of the 'gang bangers' and maybe they sabrina 1 Jan 2014 #178

I'm all for it, provided law abiding citizens can keep theirs. badtoworse Jan 2014 #187

Recommend.n/t Jefferson23 Jan 2014 #48

Including 18/19 year adult in this data is the way anti-gunners pad the data aikoaiko Jan 2014 #55

Yep, it's those damn "anti gunners". ForgoTheConsequence Jan 2014 #62

it is what is. aikoaiko Jan 2014 #67

Uh huh. ForgoTheConsequence Jan 2014 #72

You accused a DUer of having "a sick mind" You should apologize. Eleanors38 Jan 2014 #136

The sentiment was sick. ForgoTheConsequence Jan 2014 #150

You said someone had a "sick mind." Bully? Bull. Eleanors38 Jan 2014 #153

That's waht I would call someone telling another they have to apologize kcr Jan 2014 #155

I stand by that statement. ForgoTheConsequence Jan 2014 #159

You realize that you are accusing fellow DUers in personal explicit attacks. Eleanors38 Jan 2014 #162

Please feel free to put me on ignore. ForgoTheConsequence Jan 2014 #165

So what do you call du'ers who don't own guns, are not gay, are not female The Straight Story Jan 2014 #174

You brave brave soul. ForgoTheConsequence Jan 2014 #179

It has been and continues to be about the rights of fellow citizens The Straight Story Jan 2014 #181

"Children" DragonBorn Jan 2014 #66

This is the same argument Zimmerman supporters used. ForgoTheConsequence Jan 2014 #73

Seriously your throwing out the racist card already DragonBorn Jan 2014 #93

Your minority status does not give your opinion kcr Jan 2014 #95

You have poor reading comprehension skills. DragonBorn Jan 2014 #112

Yes, I did kcr Jan 2014 #121

The legal definition of a child is: .... spin Jan 2014 #80

Was that the legal definition of an adolescent? kcr Jan 2014 #81

The term adolescent was not used in the OP or in the excerpts from the article. ... spin Jan 2014 #96

I know, those 19 years olds they had the nerve to include in that study kcr Jan 2014 #98

The fact that in 2009 7,391 children and adolescents ended up in a hospital and 6% died ... spin Jan 2014 #142

Not discounting the other issues kcr Jan 2014 #143

Yes, we do have an overall problem we need to solve concerning the issue of ... spin Jan 2014 #168

Oh. So much explained. kcr Jan 2014 #169

Well obviously there are some posters here on this thread that do feel that semantics are ... spin Jan 2014 #170

It's not expanding the meaning of the word child to cause more emotional impact. kcr Jan 2014 #172

Well, since it's pretty clear that guns are here to stay, the smart move is to discuss prevention. NYC_SKP Jan 2014 #91

I'd like to see a better study breakout in the data. AtheistCrusader Jan 2014 #100

But what about the hurt feelings of gun enthusiasts... Zenlitened Jan 2014 #126

Shopping Carts Send 66 kids per day to ERs. - Really, here's the link. Skip Intro Jan 2014 #160

shopping carts killed 20 kids in Connecticut in 5 minutes? CreekDog Jan 2014 #180

Well we should do something about that too. Warren Stupidity Jan 2014 #190

... I seem to remember posting something months ago, as part of a larger OP. cherokeeprogressive Jan 2014 #171